Is that illegal?

@FatLynn:
I was thinking of George on Seinfeld: "Was that wrong?"

What is WRONG with people? Seriously. We lost our home so let's torture some people?

By torturers, they mean the loan modification agents, right?

Wow, considering I work as a mortgage fraud investigator, I'm really torn here.

I mean, assuming the complaint is legit, they obviously did something illegal by kidnapping and torturing the scammers.

But jaywalking is illegal too, and it is pretty hard for me to get much more worked up about the victims plight here than the "victims" of a jaywalking incident.

Turnabout is fairplay...

Seriously, I understand their frustration, but what gives them the right to try and KILL people. NOTHING gives you the right to take the life of another person, unless perhaps they have killed someone themselves - even then it should be handled through some sort of judiciary system (retribution-based killing chains = fail. See Israel v. Palestine for more info). Especially if its something as trivial as money. What the fuck is this world coming to?

@angryneo: I don't think torture = theft

@valleyval: These people were involved in fraud that resulted in a threat to the welfare of others. While I do not condone this I fully understand why someone would torture and murder anyone remotely involved in the fraud. Unfortunately now they will have to be punished for what they have done.

@FatLynn: Probably, but the mortgage companies have lots of lawyers so they'll never be arrested for what they did to the homeowners.

@valleyval: There has been a rash of mortage modification scams in the recession, so the agents may very well have taken their money and done nothing.

I am in NO WAY saying that torturing is okay. Kidnapping/torturing only works in James Bond movies, plus it's illegal and wrong. But I would daydream about it if I had been scammed and lost my house as a result! :)

@justsomeotherguy: You fully understand that anyone who thinks they got poor service would want to torture and rob the representative involved? I hope you don't work in any customer-service positions.

As a fan of entropy this makes me smile. I hope this is just the start of a trend that will make good fodder for my daily internet news addiction.

@justsomeotherguy: I'm sorry, but that has to be one of the most sickening statements. If these men defrauded someone, you report it to the police and let them go at them. YOU DO NOT KIDNAP AND TORTURE.

Does that mean the CEO of some company can break down the door of a couple that is defrauding their state's welfare agency and beat them up? Or is it only "understandable" when its backed with the populist "rage" de jour?

@mythago: And even if they didn't...I don't even own a house on which to forclose, but I imagine that would be a horrible situation. I'd want to torture SOMEONE.

I am amazed (no, not really) at how many people just assume that because the defense attorney says the loan-modification agents were "frauds", they were. It hasn't occurred to anyone that people who would torture and rob somebody might be, oh, I don't know, a little shady themselves?

Please add "street justice" tag.

@Anachronism: There is no "complaint". Post-arrest, the perps are claiming that the loan modification agents a) failed to save their homes and b) therefore are frauds.

New fee for mortgage companies: $1000 "security fee" for any visits to a customer's home.

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: They never tried to kill them. They were just re-enacting Monty Python's famous Black Knight skit.

"Tis a flesh wound"

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: BTW...Seriously, they said nothing about killing, and didn't even detail the alleged torture. It could have been forcing them to attend a time share seminar, for all we know.

@mythago: Yeah. That's a big question mark in my book. No evidence has been offered that the loan-mod agents were, themselves, crooked. And you're very right that defense attorneys are not credible sources of information ... this claim needs independent confirmation.

Well you know, if they really were modification scammers and the torture was just tying and beating them up then I'm not feeling too bad about this. Prosecute the five, sure, because you can't officially condone this, but since the cops can't do anything about the huge number of loan modification scammers running around a few more stories like this could be useful.

I realize it's the Internet and you shed a little bit of your humanity when you start posting comments, but come on, saying that the torturers had any right or justification whatsoever to do what they did is ridiculous.

We live in a civilized society. You just don't kidnap, torture or kill people. Period.

@chaoss13: That made me giggle.

@chaoss13: I dunno, torture in the hands of the unexperienced will most likely end with someone dying. Especially if they don't know about how much blood people can lose before they are beyond help. I'm assuming they were trying to recreate something fun they saw in a movie.

@chaoss13: Reading comprehension, please. From the article:

...luring two loan modification agents to a location and then holding them for hours, beating and robbing them

@PsiCop: I don't really blame the defense attorney; it's his job to say stuff like that. But clearly we're not deal with the Upstanding Citizen family.

@Schildkrote: Apparently a lot of people didn't start with much humanity to spare when they started shedding.

Companies and individuals them selves need to fear for reproductions of their own actions. In other countries where you lose a hand when you steal, one is more likley to think about doing some one over. I'm not condoning this action, but if it happens more it may cause some entities and there people to straiten out and fly right. When people get greedy and harm others and pretty much get away with it some one will try and take care of it them selves.

@pecan 3.14159265: Exactly, beating =/ trying to kill. They could have used soap in a sock on the stomach.

@TuxthePenguin: Well, what's more is that there was no information as to whether the loan modification agents actually were frauds. The people believed they were.

@pecan 3.14159265: Real life comprehension, please. Beatings, especially beatings that go on for hours, can easily kill or cause permanent damage and are not blood-free.

@OMG! SP00N: Yes, you're condoning this action. And if it happens more it will just cause loan-modification agents to start wearing guns.

In those countries where you can lose a hand when you steal, nobody steals, right? Right?

C'mon... These loan modification people were simply praying on the weak and stupid. If that's wrong, then dammit, I don't want to ever be right.

The red flag for everyone should be that the five people "believed" they were being defrauded. There hasn't been any evidence.

I found this article, which has more information. [www.pasadenastarnews.com]

According to the prosecution, two of the five people "asked for their money back after concluding the victims were not doing enough to help them."

Despite the he said/she said of the defense and prosecution, there is no evidence shown to suggest that the loan modification agents were defrauding anyone.

Apologies if this gets double posted - I thought it ate my post.

@mythago: I wasn't disagreeing. I was responding to chaoss13, who said "BTW...Seriously, they said nothing about killing, and didn't even detail the alleged torture. It could have been forcing them to attend a time share seminar, for all we know."

I was saying that we did know the specifics of the torture - they were beaten.

@tbax929 is rooting for a Phillies repeat: Caaaaashmere.

I don't condone it, but I think this is going to be the start of a trend with the tailspin of the economy.

Rich yuppie CEO "Preston" or Wall Street trader "Wyatt" will be mobbed and attacked by a group of destitute individuals, just as he's loading his Neiman Marcus bags into his luxury SUV.

It's going to be a battle between the have's and the have-not's. A clash of the classes. They're going to go after the people who swindled them, then they're going to after the people who they just don't feel like they deserve their "good" fortune.

I'm not the least bit surprised, and I probably won't be when I hear more news like this.

@BeyondtheTech: I think this started when idiots who lost their homes destroyed their homes and vandalized them because they were upset and bitter that they lost their home.

Now it's just escalating so that people are trying to destroy other people instead of walls.

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: The key is to kill them, instead of torturing. That way there's only one side of the story.

@AirIntake: Regardless, its the same concept. Where does one human being get off thinking they have the right to injure/damage/kill another human being because they've been slighted.

What kind of a society are we coming to?

They should have just water-boarded the hostages, as we know, that is not torture.

@oldtaku: Oh yes because its JUSTIFIED to tie up and beat everyone that does something bad to you?

Would hate to get in an argument with you.

@Schildkrote: THANK YOU!

@pecan 3.14159265: Fair enough.

@TuxthePenguin: It's a sign of the times. It symbolizes the acknowledgment of a breakdown in the system. Obviously they didn't believe that justice would be served and their homes saved otherwise their solution would have been to go to the authorities. The more people hear "I'm sorry you're screwed but there's nothing the government can do, even though we are supposed to make and enforce laws." the more things like this will occur.

Is it disgusting? Yes. That does not invalidate justsomeotherguy's statement though. More people everyday understand how something like this could happen.

@OMG! SP00N: Oh yes, and we make a regular practice of cutting people's hands off in America, don't we. Come the fuck on.

@Quake 'n' Shake: There's a difference between being assfaces and scamming people for money and believing you are justified in tying someone up and beating them to a bloody pulp. You're SERIOUSLY justifying this?