No Palm Pre For Verizon Wireless?
If you've been holding out on a phone upgrade or carrier switch until the Palm Pre comes to Verizon, you may need to give up the dream. The carrier has "reportedly ditched plans to offer the Palm Pre early next year," says PC World. Apparently poor sales of the device at Sprint, combined with Verizon's interest in upcoming Blackberry devices, killed any enthusiasm the carrier once had. Update: The no-Pre rumor may be false, according to these two analysts.
"Verizon Scraps Palm Pre Plans, Report Says" [PC World]
(Photo: idovermani)
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The Palm Pre is inconsistent with Verizon's desire to restrain its users and cripple its handsets. An open App Store like the Pre and iPhone have wouldn't allow them to charge you an arm and a leg for inferior services in their vCast store.
Don't expect iPhone on Verizon for the same reason, unless they're willing to change their entire way of doing business.
@logicalnoise: Funny I never had to pay for each of those services. It was all included in my 30 dollar fee for unlimited internet, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
Verizons evil, but dont make shit up.
@Paladin_11: A friend of mine has this clunker of a Palm phone on Verizon. He hasn't switch b/c the Palm OS doesn't allow for transfer of information to another phone or computer as a way to transfer to another phone. He was all excited about the Pre until he got confirmation that he couldn't transfer his information. That is one reason why enthusiasm for the Pre is lax from current Palm owners.
Maybe they would sell more devices if they ditched the creepy ad campaign...
Though I personally find Tamara Hope cute, even I find those ads unsettling.
@AshCatScram: I guess I hadn't heard that you could not transfer. I have a Palm Centro and have it syncing up with Outlook on my PC rather than the Palm software. I have switched phones and it syncs my current info right up with contacts and calendar in outlook. Maybe your friend should move to outlook. Just an idea.
What? You say a $500 phone is selling poorly? And they have been really late rolling out apps, which is the only reason to have a $500 phone in the first place? lol.
The reviews seem mish-mashed too...half the people say they love it, half say it is broken/scratched and they are on their 3rd one.
@MostlyHarmless: Is that who that is? I didn't know.. I just wondered why that girl looked naked.. and kindof.. albinoish..
I also thought that the hairstyle in the first ad where she was turned around most of the time would be popular for weddings.
But yes.. very creepy.
@Paladin_11: Exactly, although Windows Mobile and Blackberry offer app stores (WM has a few unofficial ones until Windows Mobile Marketplace gets launched in a few months) as well, to be fair. Me thinks that VZW doesn't want other devices like iPhone and Pre, due to the lack of control over adding branded apps, themed skins/wallpaper on the UI, etc.
@Saboth:
Um, what $500 phone?
The Pre is selling for $99 on Amazon and $149 everywhere else, with a 2-year contract.
BAD MOVE for Verizon. I wuv my Pre and everbody who has Verizon gets those puppy eyes when they see it and always asks me "When is it coming to Verizon!?". I always told them with confidence that it would be somewhere around Xmas. Sadly, they will be disapointed once they find out. I know at least 3 people ready to ditch Verizon for that phone. Who doenst want an open source linux that as simple if not more than iphone? Not to mention costing less to run that iphone? But knowing Verizon, they would plague the Pre with there crap softwares and v-cast.
Fanboys and opposition say the Pre is a dud. They are sadly mistaken. The biggest complaint I hear about it is that there arent enough and or they arent coming out with more apps soon enough. Keep in mind they just whipped this phone out. Apple took years before building their app catalog.
For the record, no Im not a Pre fan boy. AT&T scared me off with their bad network and outrageous rates.
@remington870_20ga: Not to mention that you when you hear bad things about a product on the internet it doenst mean its the majority concerning with broken Pre's. Working Pres and broken ones are complety outweighed. Typically if something is working you arent going to find every phone forum and post how well your phone is working like you would if it had a cracked screen for no reason.
@AshCatScram: But to be fair, no other phone would really solve that problem either. It's not like your friend is going to get an iPhone vs. a Pre because the Palm OS-to-iPhone migration is so easy.
And there are plenty of ways to get your info off the Palm. Sync with Outlook, use GooSync, export from Palm Desktop, etc.
blackberry... come on Verizon there is more out there than Blackberry. If it were not for the fact that every other carrier in this desert wasteland I live in has crappy coverage I would be out after my contract.
I doubt this has anything to do with lower than expected sales for the Pre and everything to do with Verizon's inability to lock the phone down so their subscribers all have the same user experience.
@Falcon5768: It was only recently that Verizon opened up most BB services on their network. It very well could be that logicalnoise had Verizon service when those BB services were NOT available.
God, how can Ivan and the braintrust in Basking Ridge be so God damn stupid. It's not that people aren't interest in the Pre device, it's because they are not interested in the Pre as long as it's on Sprint, because Sprint sucks.
@Saboth: Actually, champ, the phone isn't $500, nor has it ever sold for that price. Yes, maybe that's what they list it as for the "retail price", but we all know everyone sells it for cheaper than that. Currently you can pick one up at Amazon for $99 with a new service plan. Link
And as it so happens (despite your skewed view of reality), the reviews have been very positive for the device despite some of it's more glaring flaws. Link
We'd all love to hear more of your knowledgeable opinions on the device though. Please, continue.
@Kimaroo - 20% More Kitty Added!: You mean, you know Tamara Hope from some other context? I just know one clip where she dies - that too because it was posted on gizmodo...
@remington870_20ga: "Apple took years before building their app catalog"
I don't get this argument? The bar has been set, the past is irrelevant.
Palm's problem is that they chose to unnovate and produce only a mildly different device in a market already dominated by mature products from some major players.
@MostlyHarmless: Sorry, no, I just didn't realize that someone knew her enough to know her name. I figured she was just a model or something.
@TheFuzz53: I think that is it exactly. I like the idea of the Pre but I would never, ever, switch to Sprint to get one.
I'm on AT&T. Which seems to be quite good in Texas if you ask me, but Sprint is lousy.
@TheFuzz53: Ugh. I suppose I'll bite at your Sprint bashing. I've been with the carrier for over 6 years. In my time with the carrier, I have had only one service issue (text messages crashed like two years ago for a day). The coverage in my area is actually pretty strong. For the price for my entire family (Under 150 for four phones with 1600 mins and unlimited everything, which quite possibly could be cheaper... I'll have to call today) is far far cheaper than any other rival service. They have also provided us an opportunity to receive the new phone upgrade discount of $150 every year rather than every two years.
While some phones may not be for me on the network, I would much rather have a Sprint phone with their "suck" service than a bogged down, over-priced Verizon phone.
I have a Pre and think it is amazing. It is only $200, with a contract, which is pretty reasonable for smartphone. It is a great alternative to the iPhone, and soon the app store will significantly improve. Sales with Sprint are not particularly relevant. Sprint has much less subscribers then Verizon, and Sprint has also been lacking in the smartphone department, usually getting blackberries a year or so after they come out. So it's not surprising a new smartphone wouldn't do that well on the carrier. The Pre would probably do amazing sales with Verizon.
Actually, those 2 year contracts can get a bit *pricey*, especially if you want to change carriers and have to pay $200+ for an ETF... nevermind the overly inflated monthly bills you are locked into.
Yes, the phone costs $500. If you want a phone and a 2 year contract, you can get that *package* for $99 + $1500 (about what a 2 year contract will run you if it runs it's course).
@rhys1882:
Not to mention there are people like me with Sprint who are just waiting until my current contract is up to buy the new phone. I'll buy a pre, or something similar, in a year when my contract is up.
I just tried the Pre @ Sprint & was disappointed by the lackluster performance. I tested a few web sites and the speed was ... well astonishingly poor and lacked any sort of response. The word painful comes to mind. Of course, I can't tell if it was the phone's fault, Sprint's network or both. Based on my demo experience, I won't be getting it. On top of that, many sites had such small text, it was unreadable. I assume there is a way to magnify the site though. Since the demo was done in a real Sprint store, I expect the phone was working with a good signal and was working at its best. If not, then Sprint better start training the staff how to properly demo the phone.
Grrrr... That sucks! Verizon is going to lose me as a customer pretty soon. I am tired of their nickel and dime, fixed user experience crap. I think I'd rather deal with a slightly worse network. Hope sprint will take me back they think I've owed them $2.51 for the last decade(remember the sprint spectrum days).
It looks like some are questioning these rumors and accusing them of being "off-base."
From AllThingsD.com (via Engadget): "...a combination of supply chain orders and Palm's own 2010 financial projections -- not to mention Verizon's long history with Palm -- all point to a Pre launch on Verizon early next year..."
Link: [www.engadget.com]
Maybe it's nothing to worry about after all! Here's hoping, since I was already sold on the Pre but wanted to stay with Verizon.
Verizon turned down the pre because Sprint/nextel will merge with TMobile in 2010. The iPhone will also come to Tmobile in 2010.
Verizon won't get the iPhone in 2010 for the same reasons they didn't in 2007. Verizon is an absolute stickler about control over ancillary revenue streams.
With exception to RIM, Verizon played ball with allowing Blackberry's to compete in the corporate user space.
The network coverage of Verizon really is quite remarkable. And they're not afraid to leverage that value. High prices, crippled phones etc.
IMO, while Verizon's smartphone lineup is looking duller by the second, the Pre would not help them at all.
Why would you sign up for Verizon as a new customer when you can get the Pre on Sprint for less per month?
@Saboth: Wouldn't all phones cost thousands of dollars then by your logic? You were wrong and now you come back with an even dumber argument.
As it turns out, comparing the Pre, the G1/G2, and the Iphone with an unlimited everything plan, you're cheapest option is the Palm Pre on Spring, followed by the G1/G2 on T-Mobile, and then the Iphone on AT&T. Source
I've had 3 phones I've bought under contract and 2 phones unlocked. So what was the cost of my unlocked phones under your logic? Maybe the better logic would be to divide the cost of the phone and add it to the cost of service since you need a phone to actually use their service.
The ads creep me out...no matter the network I will not buy a phone. I have the heebs now big time. Eeeeggggg.
@AshCatScram: Your friend got bad information. It's possible that there isn't some mindlessMagic solution where the "techs" in the store plug each phone into the Upgrade-o-Matic and it just happens, but when my partner upgraded his Treo to a Pre is went pretty smoothly.
He was already syncing the Treo to Outlook. He did a sync of Outlook to Google (gmail and google calendar are among the native cloud-sync environments for the Pre), shut down the Treo, activated the Pre and configured it to sync to his Google account and he was done except for cleaning up some duplicates where he had some contacts' phone number in 1 record, email address in another from years of not-quite-perfect sync between devices. Google has great online tools for integrating multiple contacts for a single person, it's quite slick.
@Kimaroo - 20% More Kitty Added!: Sprint has quite-good coverage in DFW, Austin, San Antonio and Houston and all major highways in between. There are some holes along 281 between Lampasas and Stephenville, but that's not a major highway anyway. If you're on AT&T with a 2g or older phone, you're not suffering from the iPhone oversaturation of their 3G network, but from the number of calls my friends' iPhones in Austin and San Antonio drop I think I'll stick with my cheaper Sprint service.
@Audiyoda: What do you mean most BB services? What was missing before? The only thing that Verizon did on BB before was lock GPS down. The Storm, which came out last year, has GPS unlocked, as well as the Tour. So aside from that nothing else was different on VZW BB's than anyone elses.
@Paladin_11: Makes no sense since Blackberry and Windows Mobile pda's on Verizon arent crippled or forced to have some Verizon software... you can put the BB Appstore on your Verizon BB.
If you want locked down then get an iPhone, that device is more walled off than any Verizon PDA.
@Saboth:
Yeah, why don't you add the cost of the car you drove to the store in too while you're at it?
You were wrong; you got owned; now just man up or disappear.
So here are our options for decently powerful and usable smartphones:
1. iPhone 3GS on AT&T. Subject to outages because AT&T has virtually no data capacity left, plus AT&T's network coverage is not as good indoors and out-of-the-way places. Subject to the whims of a company with a track record of being hostile to wallets. Also subject to the whims of a manufacturer who likes to lock down their hardware.
2. Pre on Sprint. If AT&T's service is spotty, Sprint's could be considered non-existent once you get 3 miles away from a population center. Sprint wins the award year after year for poor customer service, though they seem to have the best unlimited plan. Palm, however, is an awesome company who seems to be in touch with their customers in a way that allows users to do as much as possible with their hardware. Shame it's stuck on a lousy network.
3. My Touch 3G and a plethora of HTC-branded handsets on Tmobile. Both Google and HTC are totally committed to the user experience. Google created Android, the first open-source cell phone operating system, and built on it for the My Touch 3G. Again, too bad they are all using a network where 3G is just an apartment number, although TMobile voice plans are not too salty.
4. Verizon. Arguably the best network for speed, capacity, reach and quality. Too bad they hobble every device on the network by rewriting the software. They can't stand to be without their precious revenue streams of ring tones, ring back tones, vCast, tethering and navigation, so they disable all the built-in functionality of the phones in favor of paid content-delivery systems. Add to that the fact that Verizon hasn't offered an original smartphone in over a year, and you have the beginnings of a stagnant customer base.
Verizon is married to BlackBerry right now, for better or for worse, and the only hope in sight is the Storm 2, which seems to have better hardware than the original Storm. Unfortunately, Verizon's likely software rewrite will probably disable most functionality and will definitely introduce so many bugs that Storm 2 will be no better than its predecessor.
I applauded Verizon's decision to allow any CDMA device on its network, though it hasn't really been put into practice yet. The time could be nigh, though, as Palm's Sprint exclusivity ends.
Palm could very well sell unlocked Pres to those of us who want a decent smartphone. At that point, Verizon would be powerless to stop Pre users from exploiting the unlimited data plans they pay for, whereas they could reel them in, hobble the Pre, and encumber them with a two-year contract if they offered it through their sales channel.
Apple's iPhone might also be a great candidate, but Apple has gone on record saying they will not offer iPhone with a CDMA radio, only an LTE radio. Verizon is building out LTE, but it will be years before it gains enough ground to rival the current CDMA reach, and in the meantime, if you can't pick up an LTE signal, you're SOL.
The Bottom Line. There is no clear winner right now. Usability and user-experience go to Apple and Palm while network quality goes to Verizon. The first carrier that marries great phones (even at slightly higher prices) with monthly service packages that don't break the bank (think Boost or even Sprint's Unlimited Everything) will be a clear winner, even if their customer service is suspect. Such a company will enjoy a huge market share win over the others. In fact, the only reason Boost isn't more popular is that the Nextel reason it runs on is a dead end.
@philipbarrett: "Mildly DIFFERENT"?????? It is just another mouse-trap. You can only change a phone so much.
And what, did you expect Palm to have thousands of apps right away?
@Paladin_11: This is one of the major reasons we are letting our Verizon contract expire. They have everything crippled and for a fee. The last round of phones we got on our contract are total crap (LG Env) to the point you can't hear a phone conversation.
Other carriers are starting to offer deals where we could get unhobbled phones with actual features and unlimited internet for less than we are paying for just our voice line and text messaging.
The downside is being in a smaller city we don't have Tmobile as an option yet.
@remington870_20ga: But I hear nothing but hate for Sprint. How much do you have to fork out a month to actually be able to use the features in a Pre? Do they have a Wifi option?
@zacox: Sadly you're wrong about Verizon's powerlessness to stop Pre users from "exploiting the unlimited data plans they pay for." As far as I can tell, no voice devices have ever been approved under ODI and I'm guessing Verizon has strong-armed handset makers into NOT submitting their handsets for ODI approval. (Verizon's rules state that the manufacturer must be the one to seek testing/approval of a device.)
Maybe if they implement LTE as a SIM-based system so that you can just pop a Verizon SIM into any LTE device (like you can with GSM, for the most part) then there'll be a chance once Palm makes a WebOS LTE device.
@IR1: Yeah, in my usage over 1 year of having the iphone, i can agree that it is walled off as much as Verizon is.
You know what the difference is? With Verizon all the cool stuff is OUTSIDE their walls (except for their Get It Now crap which usually costs extra per month). With the iPhone all the cool shit is INSIDE the walls!
Sure, I can't install random unsanctioned stuff on my phone without jailbreaking (I haven't JB'd btw) but there's so much completely sanctioned cool stuff I CAN do that it's no big deal.*
And finally, I seriously doubt the browser on BB and Win Mobile can really navigate a modern desktop-style site that was not designed explicitly for less-capable mobile browsers. I'm talking buying tickets on TicketMaster or using your bank's normal, fully-featured online banking site. Not reading twitter or digg in "mobile mode."
*Would I like to see Apple stop the shenanigans with things like Google Voice? Sure. They're being dumb. But it doesn't cramp my style as badly as Verizon's "NO RINGTONES MAY ENTER THIS PHONE EXCEPT THROUGH US!!" style of control.
@t0ph: Re-read my comment. I'm not defending Apple or slamming the Pre, just pointing out that the fact that one company has had less time to develop applications for their product is irrelevant in the marketplace.
So, mouse trap or innovative? Which is it?
Given the scary state of security on GSM (i.e. it's completely hacked and holed and there is NO security), that rules out ATT and T-Mobile right off the bat. The iPhone may be the best device ever but it makes no difference as long as it's on a completely worthless GSM network. It's _not_ safe to use. That's the bottom line.
Maybe it is fine for people who don't care if their calls can be intercepted and recorded. There are plenty of exhibitionists who might even LIKE that. But not me.
@Powerlurker: bollocks, sprint roams on Verizon's towers all the time. Anywhere with Verizon coverage and no Sprint coverage, you're on Verizon, even if you're a Sprint customer.
verizon needs power smart phone worse than sprint(though the sprint gets the HTC hero in october). BTW that commercial with the black guy making fun of the white guy for having a non verizon blackberry is so f'n annoying.
Love how verizon skips over you having to pay for each of the services the guy brags about, whereas the same phone on another network has all that stuff unlocked for free.