Microsoft Teaches Best Buy How To Diss Linux, Macs
A recent flurry of reports on the internets claim that Microsoft has been training Best Buy employees to push customers away from Linux and Mac systems to those running Windows. While some posts claim that the Gatesians are teaching Best Buy workers to become "Linux assassins," most of what's going on looks like typical retail marketing: a deep-pocketed supplier working with a chain to hawk its products more aggressively. However, Linux pros are up in arms about "inaccuracies" in the Microsoft program that walks customers through the advantages of Windows vs. Linux.
Most of Microsoft's anti-Linux pitch focuses on familiarity, reliability, and ease-of-use, and the inaccuracies are on the order of statements like, "Linux is a self-help solution. There are no step-by-step tutorials provided, and help documentation is limited." True? Only if you ignore the hundreds of online tutorials, not to mention the wizards that make installing distros like Ubuntu at least as easy as working with Vista.
Still, we sort of agree with PC World's Tony Bradley, who points out that "Linux is getting easier and more mainstream as time goes on, but we're talking about Best Buy customers. ... they tend to buy a computer system like they buy a microwave or a dishwasher. They just want a computing ‘appliance' to set on the desk and connect to the Internet." If that's the case,though, how to do Microsoft's "assassins" go after the Mac? Oh, right, it's expensive. Guess they had a hard time using that argument against Linux, given its price point of, oh, free.
Microsoft trains Best Buy Linux assassins [ZDNet]
Microsoft and Best Buy Gang Up On Linux [PC World]
Microsoft helps Best Buy employees troll Mac users, too [Ars Technica]
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I doubt Microsoft is worried about the 2% they've lost to Linux, when Windows 7 in prerelease already had 1% of the OS market.
But hey, who doesn't love a good Internet Operating System Pissing Match! Which is to say, I am sick of Internet Operating System Pissing Matches.
@temporaryerror: Well, you have to remember - it's hip, cool, and funny when Apple does it because they include snark to go with the patronizing (and because it's Apple). If MS does it, it's horrible.
You know, these customers looking for an "appliance" to get on the internet would be better served with linux then windows. For the people that don't install applications much, compatibility isn't an issue. Why wouldn't they want to run something that can't be infected by 99.9999% of the viruses and malware that are out there, or that automatically updates to the newest version for free.
But don't listen to me.. I'm just a guy that works on lots of windows systems all day for my IT job, and for the last 3 years, has been only running Ubuntu Linux at home. I work on computers all day. When I get home, I don't want to work on my computer, I want to USE my computer. (same reason many mechanics drive Toyotas!)
^~is a MAJOR linux head.
But I am very excited about this.
Non-tech savvy people-buy your BSOD machines, keep Windows at the top of sales, and it will stay in the center of crosshares for viruses.
And I will continue to develop and browse to my hearts content on the best, free, secure, open-source solution available.
Microsoft lost the "familiarity" argument when it decided to drastically change the front-end user interface in Vista and in particular in Office 2007. My workplace is slowly migrating to Ubuntu/OpenOffice precisely because of familiarity: the front-end interface is more like Win2000 and Office 2003 than that of Microsoft's new products. We estimate that the retraining costs for Ubuntu/OO are negligible compared to those we'd incur if we switched to Vista/Office07.
Microsoft? Telling lies/mistruths/exaggerations about competing OSs? Spreading FUD?
Why, I never!
Well i think there's some truth to it. Linux fanboys don't want to hear it but it's still a valid argument. Mac is very intuitive and I understand why people like them. Windows also. I have used everything from Windows 3.1 to Windows 7 over the years. I have set up home servers with DHCP and active directory with minimal referencing. It made sense.
I wanted to learn linux too so i decided to set up a Myth Box using mythbuntu and i cannot tell you how confusing that was. Yes there are tutorials everywhere online however I would come across a step that basically says if you have this, do this, if not, do that. That's nice but how do i know? i have to go find another tutorial. Then I now get back to the original steps and a few steps later it says if i have this kernel, i need to upgrade. nice, now how do i know what kernel i have? go find another tutorial. oh, i need to upgrade...go find another tutorial. what switches do i need to run the command with? go find it. sooooo frustrating. Yes installing linux is easy but god forbid you want to actually do anything other than surf the web or write a paper.
My Son works at Best Buy and will need to ask him about this. He for one will see through any twisted facts as he uses various versions of Windows, has used MACs and currently uses a Asus Eeepc netbook with Eeebuntu distro loaded on it (& loves it).
It tickles me that Micro$oft has the gumption to criticize someone for being expensive (btw, I've been a windows-whore for longer than I care to admit), when they can take their software and drop the price almost 60% in another country and expect us not to wonder why the heck we're paying so much ourselves.
If Microsoft is beginning to go after Linux, then that means they see it as some sort of threat.
I've twice worked in environments where there was a mix of Macs, PCs, and Linux boxes. The support staff had Macs, the engineers PCs, and the academics had Suns.
In practice, the Linux machines were the only ones that had constant problems. Older machines that weren't patched regularly would be hacked.
The engineers needed PCs to run their engineering software, and they knew enough to maintain the computers themselves and avoid obvious sources of infection.
The support staff didn't know (or care) enough about such things, so they were given (older)Macs and thus avoided problems at the source.
The academics, though, needed the Sun horsepower to run their software, but were often lazy about maintenance. It takes a lot of work to maintain a Sun workstation.
So for me, the bottom line is that Microsoft is not off the mark in this campaign. Assuming that it's true, that is...
*Yet* another religio-political piece on the consumerist with blatant liberal editorializing. I am going to sit this flame war out.
[Though I imagine Apple has to be considered to be far right going by their ideology and business practices.]
Dumb question: Doesn't Best Buy sell Macs too? At least, I thought they did. (Haven't been into one for over a year so I may be wrong.)
As for Linux being "a self-help solution" ... at the risk of appearing to defend Microsoft here ... this is entirely true. As an IT veteran who's set up my share of Linux systems, I can attest to it. I can also attest that those thousands of tutorials and FAQs and online manuals you can get on the 'Net, are not quite as useful as it may seem. In addition to some being flat-out wrong, some don't apply to whichever revision of whichever distribution you're installing. Some are incomplete. Some assume you have the skill and willingness to perform complex tasks that are best done by doctorate-level computer scientists.
And God help you if you have to go to a Linux support forum to ask a question. After the barrage of orders to "READ THE FAQ!" (which by then you have already done, but not found the answer), and the barrage of complaints that you're too much of a "n00b" for them to listen to, and yet another barrage of immature rants and snide comments ... well, you may or may not actually get your question answered.
Say what you want about how great "the Linux community" is supposed to be ... but I've dealt with it, both in conjunction with my personal computers and in my professional life ... and let's just say it leaves A LOT to be desired.
To be clear: Linux is terrific — for some people who are using their computers to do some things. I have a Linux server up and running in my house. It's great for hobbyists and exper computer people. It is, however, absolutely NOT an all-purpose OS which anyone can install and use. Complain all you want about how Windows crashes and is insecure ... but a Linux computer that someone cannot use, because they haven't got the skill to do so and because the Linux community refuses to offer any help that's meaningful to them, is infinitely worse.
Again, this is not a defense of Microsoft. It's a realistic assessment of the state of Linux today.
Someone bashing Linux? Who cares if it's true or not, Nerd Rage Powers: Activate!
Ah, good old tactics. Company A sees that Company B and C are starting to do good so they start shitting bricks and resort to misleading. I've gotten the BSOD with damn near fresh installations of windows, where as I haven't even had my pc crash with linux. As far as linux being "complicated" to use, well I'm sure they've used monkeys with down syndrome to use them to get their results. I've used linux plenty of times not even being familiar with it and I was able to figure out stuff just fine, especially with the more popular ons like Ubuntu and Fedora red hat. I can't really argue about macs though..... not exactly worth their weight in gold, I'll just leave it as that.
There's a saying I personally find very true.
"Linux is only free, if your time is worthless"
I've got over 23 years in various systems (back to the CLI days, and I'm not talking mainstream C64, spent 7 years teaching with RiscOS3, a whole variety of OS') and linux is one of the hardest and awkward Os' to use. I remember building a computer in Jan 2000 (2xp3-550, 256mb ram, 32mb GForce - a beast for the time)and then spending 3 solid days on dialup downloading a redhat iso (6.1 - I still have it) to install on it. Eugh. I'd used linux before, at university (robotics degree).
It's just not that great, complex setups and storage layouts. My wife's a mac-head, been using them as a graphic artist for 14 years, she can't even get started on linux. I have the latest ubuntu installed on this box, and half the stuff doesn't work well, and thats after 2 weeks. The only linux flavour I've ever been quite happy with, is Knoppix. Mainly because it's all self-setting, I don't need to keep configuring, to move it away from some coders wet-dream setup.
My time is valuable.
@TexasP: Assuming that the Suns were running Solaris or SunOS - in an academy setting that too - it hardly makes for an apples to apples comparison when talking about home use.
Also, having worked in academia (as a student) with a mix of the given three oses, i've been repeatedly told that academia was the worst place to be a sysadmin in, in terms of security and user compliance.
Microsoft: cheaper than good, more DRM than free. What's not to like?
@Wang_Chung_Tonight: I'm with you (except I'm a Mac Cultist instead of a Linux Head)!
I think the best operating systems and computers will eventually win out, even though it may take years. Personally I'd be happy in a world without M$.
Actually, I take that back. I fix computers for a living, and if there was no Microsoft there'd be almost nothing left to fix.
@PsiCop: They do sell Macs, but the Mac section is pretty dismally manned, as opposed to the three aisle-deep section of PCs. Overall, Best Buy prefers to sell PCs because most people who go to Best Buy, like Tony Bradley said, are looking for something that isn't going to require them to do anything other than turn it on. It's the stagnation of familiarity.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Linux is actually very well suited to the person buying a PC like they would a kitchen appliance. Those people don't know how to install software (just like they don't know how to install an in-cabinet dishwasher).
Linux and the free software normally installed with it provides all the software someone who is at that level of computing needs. Someone who can't install software will not find Word 2007 of any more use than OpenOffice, they won't find IE any more useful than Firefox, and they won't find any use at all for the anti-virus, which is a bonus.
These are not customers that are native windows users, they don't understand computers at all, so they have to learn from scratch anyways. Considering how much simpler the interfaces are that come with linux netbooks (try one, you'll be amazed at the simplicity and organization of the interface, I own two so I know this for a fact--they're easier to use than a Mac!) the customers won't need to worry.
The best part is that when they hook up their camera/mp3 player/external drive Linux is a lot like a mac. It just "works". No crap to install, nothing to configure, it really just "works". It did for me on all of the netbooks I've tried.
Same thing with the updates. Not a single one of the netbooks I've used required user interaction for updates, except after I installed different OSes on them. What comes with the netbooks is so easy, even a child could use it!
@PsiCop: I'm nowhere near being any type of computer expert, although I've used Windows since 3.11 and also used Macs over the years.
I installed Ubuntu on my three computers two years ago and never had a problem. They're used daily, and I don't have to tinker with them, if I don't want to. I reinstall once a year just to have a fresh system.
It is an all-purpose system. Everything I need it to do it does.
From my reading on Ubuntuforums.org all these years, it seems the less someone knows about a computer, the easier it is for them to use a form of Linux because they don't have any preconceived notions of what to expect. Also the forums for Ubuntu are perhaps the friendliest I've found. Some of the other forums out there, I agree, really do seem to have a problem with new users which can leave a sour taste in people's mouths if they're just starting out.
@Jozef: Two years ago, I would have agreed, but since that time I've not only gotten used to Office 2007, but found that I prefer it to 2003. Give it another shot; once you get the whole "ribbon" concept it's actually easier than pull-down menus. That said, the Vista o/s still blows.
@GuinevereRucker: Hey, fellow Mac Cultists! I just got my second Mac, so we're still working on the shrine.
I work on a PC at work, though. Sigh.
Best part of this story is that Microsoft Expertzone is not exclusive to BestBuy, many other computer retailers and their employees use this site for education and training. Singling out best buy yet again for something they have no part in. Intel also does the same type of training but they call it RetailEdge. So the title should be Microsoft Teaches Retailers How to Diss Linux, Macs.
@QuantumRiff: The guy who owns the garage across the street drives a Jaguar, and has his employees fix it.
If you still buy your computers at Best Buy, I'm not sure Linux is for you anyway.
@PsiCop: i made the same comment above. tutorials were incomplete or expected advanced knowledge of linux in order to be used. telling me to check a file without telling me the location of the file just is not adequate instructions.
The real question is, would any self respecting Linux user (or someone considering Linux) even purchase a new PC at a Best Buy? Linux users tend to be fairly knowlegable about computers because Linux systrms can require a bit of TLC to get them to play nicely with all of your hardware and software. The average BestBuy shopper (my mom) would not be happy with a Linux machine as it is different from windows (they are the same people that think that Internet Explorer IS the internet and who will not give up their AOL E-mail account because they don't like change.
Most Mac users (or those considering a Mac) would probably visit their local Apple store (if they have one in close proximity). If there is no Apple store, I could see a Mac user going to BestBuy at least to touch the machines and review the features in person before making the purchase.
So that leaves Windows machines as being the bulk of sales in a BestBuy.
While the tactics that are being used may be unethical or untrue, for that particular user who relies on friends and relatives for support (who all use Windows), Windows is the most logical solution.
@QuantumRiff: Oddly enough, that's the same reason I use Windows 7 on my home computer (had RC for a while, got the legit copy off MSDN at my school)...I don't have to think about it. It's clearly not as failproof as Linux, and I've run into a few tiny problems, but after struggling with Vista machines all day, I'm stoked to get on my W7 machine and just go.
You know, these customers looking for an "appliance" to get on the internet would be better served with linux then windows. For the people that don't install applications much, compatibility isn't an issue.
Because pretty much your sole source of linux support is really on the internet. So if you're having trouble connecting on your machine whose sole purpose is to connect to the internet, you may be in a catch 22 situation.
That being said, I'm a big Linux aficionado, and I've been using it pretty much exclusively for about 5 years. If Linux comes pre-installed (thus ensuring that the drivers are all working ahead of time, etc) then I think it's a great solution for many people. But trying to do a clean install can be difficult for the uninitiated.
@GuinevereRucker: you keep right on believing that and the hackers will target the sheep who buy into macs security.
@Rachacha: I'm a committed lifetime Mac user. I've never purchased a computer in a store. Ever. My parents have, but I've always purchased my computers online. My parents need to go to a store to touch it and to fiddle with it, and they need that experience. To me, everything I need to know about a computer can be found under tech specs and recalls. For the average Best Buy computer buyer who doesn't understand that stuff, I can see why linux and even Macs are entirely irrelevent.
@bravo369: You're so right...Linux is an excellent choice for the home user with good general computer skills who only wants to surf the 'net and maybe do some word processing. They've done some nice things with the interface to make it pretty and userfriendly and whatnot, but the more advanced stuff is still not well-explained.
@MostlyHarmless: Yupp. It is. Even worse: the administration in academia. They're all morons. And they want their computers to do X, Y, and Z RIGHT NOW, they don't care that it's not actually possible! And by the way, can you please upgrade my Flash player so I can continue listening to the radio while I work? No joke, got that email the other day.
@MostlyHarmless: Apple is an interesting case, given that they're the choice machine of dirty liberal hippies sipping Starbucks and writing their novels about fighting the big corporations.
Irony is fun!
If it takes two years to get comfortable with it, Jozef has a perfectly valid point! :)
Microsoft is bending the truth and making some clever claims but nothing they state is actually wrong. They are comparing out of the box OS to out of the box OS.
Warcraft isn't compatible with Linux out of the box. If you have to install a 3rd party program to run it (WINE), it isn't compatible. WINE makes certain windows libraries available for windows based applications to run. The libraries are not included in Linux (for obvious legal reasons) hence the out-of-the-box "incompatibility". And although some games run faster on Linux than Windows (Warcraft, Fallout3, Unreal 3, Half-Life 2, Warhammer Online), Microsoft is comparing out-of-the-box compatibility -- the type that the average Best Buy shopper would expect.
Microsoft claiming Windows Live Essentials isn't available for Linux is not false. Alternatives? Yes, but not Live Essentials. A dubious point no doubt, but still true. And you CAN NOT get *all major* IM video chat services on Linux. Period. Pidgin does not support MSN Video Chat, which IS a major IM service.
For anyone to say Microsoft is lying, is wrong. They are telling the truth, just distorting it.
I believe that anyone going to Best Buy and listening to advice on operating systems is not entirely confident on what they are doing in the first place. The *average* Best Buy employee knows as much about Linux as the people they are trying to make these points to.
@Sunshine1970: I keep hearing how friendly Ubuntu is, but when I tried to set up my mini-server with it, I had a problem with a network card. It didn't work on Ubuntu. As for using the Ubuntu forums to find out what the problem was, I was told to remove the network card and install another one.
The card that was in there was pretty standard, though, as well as nominally supported, so I didn't see why Ubuntu wouldn't use it. Not knowing why Ubuntu was balking at it, I wasn't about to spend even just $20 on a new card, given I wasn't even sure the replacement would work.
I tried SuSE instead, without buying a new card, and it did work. But it installed with every service turned on, which burdened the machine and the network. It took a couple weeks to track down all the little hints and tricks it would take to trim the services down to the minimum needed to accomplish what I wanted.
I could handle that ... but it was still annoying, and completely unnecessary, since there is no viable reason to assume that any given installation needs absolutely everything under the sun turned "on" at setup time. I can't imagine a non-professional attempting the same feat.
The point is that the folks who crank out and support all the Linux distros, still assume a larger amount of expertise on the part of users, than is found in the real world. Even the Ubuntu folks.
@PsiCop:
The windows forums are friendly, sure, but here's what I encountered on several threads when I was searching for how to restart terminal services:
"Just run mstsc"
"Just run net stop mstsc"
"Try it from the command prompt"
"mstsc /admin"
"Click the X in the top right and click cancel on the disconnecting prompt until it works"
"Have you checked the services panel? You can start it from there."
The first 5 aren't even for the same program! The last one was at least on the right track, but clearly from someone who either didn't read the question [REstart] or doesn't know that M$ had made it extremely difficult to restart Terminal Services. In fact, I ended up giving up and I rebooted the box, but that's non-optimal.
I'd rather have someone treat me with disdain than talk with absolute fools. If someone had said on those forums "You just can't do it, Microsoft haven't invented that yet" and pointed to the KB article in the first place (which, eventually, someone did for the poor soul) they could have saved everyone a lot of time and grief.
@QuantumRiff: Exactly why I use a mac when I go home. I code for the windows platform all day, (on xp with at least 5 or 6 reboots a week needed,) when I get home I just want my computer to work without having to fight with it.
(For the record, I'm of the opinion that Linux folks and Mac folks should treat each other like close cousins. We enjoy making gentle fun of each other about who's best all the while laughing at that guy Microsoft who's years behind in stability and security. I know not all Linux people feel like that, but really, as compared to Windows, OS X and Linux certainly have more similarities than differences.)
@Girtych: I like Macs they have their place, but people cream their pants every time Apple comes out with some new product.
nothing elite about my PC but Apples fan bass is crazy insane, cultist actually.
@ZekeSulastin: Wow! Someone else actually realizes this? I'm not MS fanboy, but I hate the double standards they are held too.
@QuantumRiff: I run windows with no viruses and no anti-virus expect winpatrol (which isn't anti-virus but stops most mareware). But that being said those who aren't savy will get viruses. It's all about knowing what you're doing on a computer. If you don't know much about computers you will probably end up getting a virus or adding a bunch of toolbars and slowing your computer to a halt. I've seen it many times.
Did we really expect anything less? Microsoft has been comfortable for a while with the lions share of the personal computing market, and they are starting to see people go for alternative. As such, they are trying to do something about it. It's aggressive marketing just like we saw with the Pre vs. iPhone and uncountable others.