Man Puts Deposit Down On Used Car, Backs Out, Can't Get Money Back
Back in April, Nait put a $500 refundable deposit down on a used car, then decided he didn't want to buy it anymore when he found it needed $10,000 in repairs. Five months later, neither the dealership nor Capital One, will refund his money. He gives a blow-by blow here.
Nait says Capital One no longer returns his calls on the matter, although it did give him an interesting counter-offer.
Nothing and no-how. They just flat out don't answer my calls, respond to voicemails, or return my e-mails anymore. None of them do. Capital One is of no help whatsoever. They did offer to let me put a custom picture on my
credit card, though.
Sounds like it's Executive Email Carpet Bomb time. And if that doesn't work he may need to file a lawsuit.
My experience with Palm Beach Pre-Owned [Lolutah]
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Comments:
Eh least Capitol One isnt suing the guy. They did that to me when I disputed a charge and refused to pay it because I had already canceled my card over 3 months before that and paid it off in full.
They put a charge on ME themselves for some stupid credit check service they provided, then claimed that I didnt cancel the card I now didnt own and had mailed back to them in pieces.
In the end after it went to a collection agency a call from the county prosecutor ended their pursuit and they dropped everything including the dings on my credit report.
@katstermonster: Whoops, sorry. He disputed it in April 2009, after they failed to refund. It's weird that Capital One isn't sticking by the refund, though.
Crazy story! I was thinking "charge back" from the very beginning, but I've never heard of a credit card company so unwilling to work with you when there's fraud!
Can he go over Capital one's head to visa and get a charge back issued? Then he can sue for the damages (like a lowered credit score, etc) as well as dispute it.
Was it a $5,000 deposit or a $500 deposit?
I read the article, and it says it was a $500 deposit, not $5000.
They did offer to let me put a custom picture on my
credit card, though.
Could it be a photo of him giving the finger to Capital One?
Wow, what an ordeal! I do have one question, was it $5000 or $500 he deposited or was it both (one for the private PPI and one for holding the car)?
These car salesmen are dicks, ducking calls, hanging up on him, lying to him that the money would be refunded. He is a much more patient man than I am (woman), I would have probably lost my shit after I found out I was denied for a mortgage because of this.
What can possibly be done to help this guy out? What recourse does he have?
Aren't dealers required to fully disclose all damages to a used car?
So, if they get him to make a deposit on a car he is intending to buy but he is not made aware of the damages upfront, is he responsible for fulfilling the deal?
I'm not sure that any other bank would be able to do more than what Capitol One has done. He doesn't have a receipt, so he has no proof that they didn't live up to their end of the deal.
While this car lot did put the wheels into motion.... If you can afford a Mercedes then you need to pay that shit off and keep your ducks in a row. How is that not paying on principle thing working out for you now?
@qwickone: Especially when it was a phone transaction, not an in-person one with the physical card. Yikes.
Sometimes I get the "OMG I want a newer car" bug (I'm 20 and drive a 1992 Saturn SL1-love it but it's getting up there in years) bu t then i here stories like this and say "nope, i'm good" :p
I think by now its about time to just take this to court.
Here's the information to make a consumer complaint to the Florida Attorney General's office: [myfloridalegal.com]
@channelx99: Agreed! This is insane, especially Capital One spitefully screwing up his credit report. I hope he takes both the dealership and CO to court over this.
Sucks that CapOne was useless here, and sucks that the car place won't refund his deposit - BUT, the OP made this situation worse by not paying the charge - as he said, his credit score dropped and he didn't get the mortgage he wanted. I don't follow how he didn't know the charge "re-posted" since he said CapOne never removed it in the first place. He needs to pay his CapOne bill, and then proceed to pursue the matter with the car dealer in small claims - and bring those emails - good luck!
Maybe I'm confused, but doesn't getting your deposit money back when you change your mind defeat the entire purpose of leaving a deposit?!
The deposit is supposed to be a showing of a good faith promise to close the deal at a later date. And if you renege on the deal, the seller is covered by keeping your deposit.
Maybe I'm missing something.
@treimel: I took someone to small claims court a few years ago for $150. I'm suprised that there hasn't been a lawsuit filed. If it'd been me, my next action after being hung up on would have been filing court papers.
@Knippschild:
Generally they only have to disclose damages they are aware of, which is why they usually don't want to pay for PPIs or even have them done.
@GMFish: You're right - but in this case, the salesman told him in writing he could have his deposit back, in full, if the inspection didn't go well.
@GMFish: I think it's a little more than changing your mind. Yes, under normal circumstances if you put a deposit down it's understood that you either buy the car or lose the deposit. The problem is finding out that it needs $10K in repairs after putting down the deposit is not normal circumstances.
@GMFish: but Kerry said it was refundable. If the deposit wasn't refundable then he should have said that from the get go
Hate to blame the OP because it's completely wrong for them not to return the deposit, it's pretty stupid for him to not pay the $500 to the CC company resulting in the butchered credit and real estate transaction problems.
I had the EXACT same situation last year, put a $500 deposit down on a car, agent told me refundable for any reason, my wife ended up not liking it, they wouldn't refund it. (This was a Toyota, not a AMG Mercedes!) After 2 weeks of no return calls and stalling by the salesman and his super, I finally had to call and use my "angry voice" and got the refund, but in the meantime I paid the credit card bill. I didn't end up having to do a chargeback, thankfully, but if I had I would have just gotten a $500 credit on my account. Maybe that would have cost me a few bucks' worth of interest from my $500 not being in my savings account, but what's worth more, a few bucks or trashed credit?
I don't care if the CC company isn't helping with the fraud part, if they refuse to refund it and you refuse to pay it, you have to know they're going to ding your credit. Protect that first, go after them later if need be.
If he can't afford the $500 that's one thing, but if that's the case why is he shopping for an AMG Mercedes and trying to buy a house -- though used, an AMG Mercedes is a pretty damned expensive thing, it's the very definition of a luxury item. Not just a luxury brand, but the super-luxury performance version of that brand.
If he's just refusing to pay then he's just cutting off his nose to spite his face.
Screw it. Max out the Capital One credit card and then don't pay it. If they're going to dock your credit score 160 points because their fraud department sucks, you might as well get your money's worth.
(j/k)
@GMFish: Often deposits are conditional. When I bought my car, I put down a $500 deposit to show if they painted the 2 areas that needed it, I would buy it. The conditions were listed on the sheet that both the dealer and I had to sign. Had they not painted it for some reason, I would have been allowed to back out and get it back. The condition in his case was that the car satisfactorily pass an independent inspection. Not having a signed document though, I'm not surprised the credit card is not standing behind him. I'd never make a deposit over the phone like that.
This "car dealer" is obviously very shady and I feel sorry this guy. BUT he also failed to do a few things that would have protected him and possibly prevented some/all of this nightmare!
1- Whenever I've put a deposit on a vehicle, I have the dealer go ahead and write up the official sale documents (bill of sale or similar) and fax them to me prior to actually giving them my credit card information. This serves several purposes- it documents the price you've agreed to (so they can't change it later or add on frivolous extras) and it reflects the deposit amount WITH the EXACT conditions or terms agreed upon regarding REFUND of the deposit! By writing it up on their official form/document, it provides legitimate, legally-recognized documentation to use in a dispute situation...an email isn't legally binding, so it's of little value!
2- He was still receiving statements from Capital One and he knew that a refund hadn't been issued nor had Capital One removed the charge from his account! It doesn't seem fair, but he knew that he was carrying a balance on that card (right or wrong)...so a payment was due until he got the issue resolved. Especially while preparing to qualify for a mortgage, he should've been more vigilant!
3- This may still be possible- When he paid the late payment, he should have INSISTED that Capital One "re-age" his account. That means that they re-report his account to the credit bureas as being current rather than past due in this instance. It could still be done, but he had the most leverage when he had a rep on the phone who agreed to remove the late fee and, in doing so, implied that they agreed that the late payment was for a legitimate reason (an 'unofficial' dispute). I'd still try VERY HARD to get Capital One to do this! This is far more important than the $500 refund and could have long-term, far-reaching consequences if it not corrected!!!
@channelx99: Better yet? Couldn't he do what the dealership or Capital One would do to him if he owed them money, and send it to collections? Let them see what it's like for a change.
@thomas_callahan: Yeah probably wouldn't even have to pay the whole thing. Just 10 on it. Sucks they aren't helping with it. Probably going to have to sue the guy if the ECB doesn't work.
@Knippschild: They are only required to disclose "known" damages but that doesn't include regular wear items, which are what he listed as being part of the $10k repairs needed (brake and suspension components)!
one solution would be to call the police.
@channelx99: I'm not sure what state he lives in, but he'd have to file a lawsuit against the dealership in Florida! And one against Capital One in whatever state they're chartered in!
@Cant_stop_the_rock: Yes, he should have gotten a firm (i.e. written) agreement as to the terms of the deposit and eventual sale. However I don't think a lack of receipt means anything - scammers don't send receipts, and he's proposing this was a scam to separate him from his money for nothing in return. Just because a scammer doesn't send you a receipt doesn't mean that the CC shouldn't do anything about it.
@hillsrovey: That was bugging me too. Not paying his bill cost him the house!
Bank and car lot are d-bags though.
@rickhamilton620: Yep, me too. 1995 Chevy Lumina minivan, the damn thing just runs and runs. Qualified for 'clunkers' but with all the stories I heard about dealers playing games like jacking up prices and telling customers to pay back the clunker money, I decided it was too much trouble to replace a car that's running fine.
@GMFish: Good faith works both ways. Take a deposit for a piece of crap and you risk having to give it back.
@TheSurlyOne: granted. thanks for the info.
Seems a little irresponsible for the dealers to not be proactive about these repairs, and a little consumer-unfriendly.
Lucrative, but irresponsible.
@Falcon5768: Wow! At least you stuck by your guns and got them to drop the thing, good job. One more reason to fucking hate Capital One.
@GMFish: A refundable deposit isn't a promise that you'll buy anything, it's proof to the seller that you're serious. What you described is a non-refundable deposit.
@treimel: You can generally claim 2 or 3 times the monetary amount as damages. So, he could probably sue for $1,000 pretty easily.
Many of the above posters seem to think that he had nothing in writing. He in fact had several emails telling him that the deposit was refundable. He also has call recordings with the company telling him that he deserves a refund. I believe that this would denote proper documentation for a charge back.
Courts uphold emails as legal documents and I think Capital One should too.
Wow, that's wild. I'm a little confused, though...why didn't he do a chargeback much earlier in the game, within a few weeks of the promised refund not coming through? Sure, hindsight is 20-20, but I'd be a little more worried about it.