Whats with all the restarting? Are we talking about a car or a computer?

Found On Road Dead.

Just kidding, I have a Ford myself, a Mustang.

Done and done:

[www.autopartswarehouse.com]

When ford can't get 'Genuine Ford Parts', they ought to get you what is available at your request...

"It leaves us up-side down in our payments if we wanted to try to get out of this situation."

What new car wont leave people in that situation?

Two words: Lemon Laws. I just wish they could apply to this case; he really needs so help in this matter.

What about the OP's insurance company? A lot of insurance companies cover rental cars in case a car develops problems. I don't know if it's just in case of an accident, or if some plans cover mechanical problems as well.

The throttle body on a car is a critical engine component. If that's not a drivetrain component, then WTF is?

It brings air into the fuel system on fuel injected engines. That makes it a cousin of the carburetor, differing in that it doesn't mix the fuel and air.

I sincerely doubt that the 6-cylinder engine in the Freestyle is unique to that model. I have to imagine that the throttle body in question is going to be a problem for other Ford models too.

I won't hate on Ford for having this situation...but I do think they should handle it better. It doesn't matter who made the part...they sourced it and used it in their product. They now need to stand behind that product in a reasonable manner (which to me would include a loaner/rental of equivalent specs., until resolved).

The "throttle body" is causing the transmission light to go on? Post this on Jalopnik, you'll have a correct diagnosis and fix within 6 hours.

Tell Ford that you want an aftermarket part. Advanced Auto Parts seems to have a throttle body for your vehicle and it appears to be in stock [shop.advanceautoparts.com]

They will probably tell you that it won't be guaranteed for the 12 months that a "genuine" part would be guaranteed for, but it is unlikely that you will have any problem with it, and it will get you back on the roan sooner.

Sometimes aftermarket parts are better. Many years ago, my parents had a Chevy Blazer S2, and the rubber boot covering the CV joint (for 4 wheel drive) kept splitting every 6 months. Every time, the dealer would replace it free of charge, and we would be back in the shop again in 6 months. We took the car to an independent mechanic, and he put on a cheaper aftermarket part and it worked fine for another 10 years until the car met an untimely death when it collided with a deer.

If Ford won't cover a rental, see if they will give you a loaner or a comperable used car to borrow (even offer to pay for an oil change that you would likely be doing on your vehicle anyway in 3-4 months).

@MostlyHarmless: Pretty much the same thing now. My '92 Honda Accord has an engine computer that controls everything.

I'd march on down to that dealer and demand to know how the heck a throttle body is not part of the "power train". Will the engine work without it? I vote no. Therefore, it's part of the power train.

@admiral_stabbin: I agree, how is the TB not covered in this situation?

@pecan 3.14159265: For my insurance policy it is only in the case of an accident, and only for as long as the insurance company believes the repair should take (which does not include thee time to source parts when parts are no longer being made or when they require a special order.

Personally, we have 3 cars and 2 drivers so we rearely need the rental, but it is nice to have the option available if one car is in the body shop, and we need to do an emergency repair, or routine maintenance on another vehicle.

The dealership is screwing them around, I'm just not sure why. A Throttle Body is a drivetrain component.

You can escalate above a dealership, you need to find the Ford Zone rep or EECB Ford.

@MostlyHarmless: If this part is so back ordered is this a potential recall situation or is this just fallout from the economy hurting the parts manufacturers?

@pecan 3.14159265:
Most rental clauses in insurance policies only kick in when there's been an accident. And many of them require a waiting period of 24 hours before they even go into effect.

My heart goes out to you. I've loved my many Fords but am currntly suffering with a '99 Mercury Mystique (AKA Mistake). I can't believe how hard it is to get fucking parts for the god damned thing. Am I the only person that keeps a very well maintained 10 year old car? It only has 50,000 miles on it but was completely unsafe to drive at night until recently for almost a year. It had an electrical problem that developed slowly over a period of about a year, all the lights would pulse to such an extent as to look like they were flashing. Multiple dealers and hundreds spent without luck. Ford denied any known problem. I spent weeks searching online and finally found the solution: a piece of wire and thirty minutes work fixed it. Ford issued a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) on the only other car to share the same exact wiring harness, the Mercury Cougar, but not on the Mystique.

@rushevents: No, its the part being so poorly made that the company making it went out of business, and now a new company is making it - in fact redesigning it - and that is what taking it so long.

@javi0084: Hondas

@admiral_stabbin: I concur, I think the dealer is full of it when saying the TB isn't covered under powertrain warranty. The Engine has to have a TB in order to freaking work. Which would fall under the purview of powertrain.

Not only that, the Freestyle is on the D3 Platform which is shared with the Five Hundred, Taurus, Flex, Edge, MKS, MKT, MKX. The 3.5L V6 is available in all of those cars. I don't see why they couldn't get a TB from the same model car.

As for being upside down on the car. Welcome to the world of buying a new car. You are upside down the second you drive off the lot. Unless it's a Honda Civic, you're going to be upside down till the day its paid off.

I'd say you qualify under most lemon laws for a buyback if they can't get the vehicle repaired until December. Most lemon laws state that X Days in the shop within a period of time = Buyback.

I'd at least try to get your car back and take it to another dealer. For them not to cover a powertrain part under the powertrain warranty is highly suspect.

This is why i went to Subaru, i realize no company is perfect, but as more and more of your mistakes go public, maybe this is a huge area to be improved upon..

If you consistently delivered great service, instead of mostly mediocre to bad service, than most of these companies wouldn't need government handouts...

That is why this is the era of the death of big companies, and growth of smaller ma & pop companies that can deliver good service!

To the OP: I own a Freesyle as well, and am aware of this after having ours do the same things and researching it (yes even transmission light-the thottle body reports to the computer where it thinks the throttle position is in as well open/shut/how much, so if its sending errant information, the trans. may also react errantly as well). In our case, the check trans. light would come on, as would the traction control light, and the car would go into fail safe mode where it would have maybe 30% power. Then it would go away, with no error messages or codes (I have a code checker), often as quickly as a quick shut down and restart.

In our case, aagain after researching it online, I've cleaned the throttle body and that's stopped it...or at least, minimized the incidences of it. This is do-able fo us until the "new" throttle body is manufactured....or Ford issues a recall as this is commonly known issue-just check Freestyle forums.

Chris

Note the Freestyle's new car reliability prediction of "average" in CR. I've still got another 100k miles left to put on my 11 year old Honda, but when I replace it I'm only going to consider cars with "better than average" reliability predictions.

@ReaveT: My 05 Scion Xb

@Aeroracere: Nope, not even close. That will only work in place of a carburetor on an engine previously equipped with one.

A throttle body for a modern fuel-injected car is a completely different piece.

@crosenblum: Not sure if you are a NASIOC.com member, but a quick scan through there would probably cure you of any fanboi-ism you might have. SOA (Subaru of America) goes out of their way to wash their hands of warranty/dealer issues rather frequently. And their newer stuff comes factory new with issues and/or been de-contented compared to previous models. Plus the cars are getting uglier - and not quirky bugeye Impreza ugly, just ugly in a generic way.

@Aeroracere: Hope the OP sees this.

My car goes to my non-dealership affiliated mechanic, Pete, who finds the least expensive parts and does the best work. I don't need the dealship installing an expensive branded part when something just as good is available at a lower cost.

@Rachacha: that is a generic performance unit and is not the correct one for the Freestyle. Also if you click on the item it says it isn't available at this time.

Ummm...I'm confused.

A throttle body is required to get the fuel charge into the motor...so it can burn it...so it can make power.

So how, exactly, is that not part of the powertrain?

The throttle body is absolutely part of the drivetrain. I've replaced the drivetrain on one of my vehicles.

Look at almost every car forum out there - throttle body discussions fall under engine and drivetrain.

Sounds like an attorney fluent in Magnuson-Moss needs to get involved.

Why soul ford even pay anything for a rental. It's not their fault that the part is backordered.
Take it to another repair shop, and get an aftermarket one.

"Millions" of Freestyle owners. Really?

@ReaveT: keep dreaming. Even imports are upside down after they drive off the lot.

retaining value does not mean that the value doesnt go down. They might retain value longer, but the minute you drove your Honda or Toyota off the lot, you lost a couple thousand dollars.

@MostlyHarmless: Whats with all the restarting? Are we talking about a car or a computer?

Expect this more and more as manufacturers leverage computer hardware and software between vehicles and less and less testing is performed.

I had a 1998 Saturn SW2 that required "reboots", sometimes at highway speeds :-/ ... it was a manual transmission and what I found was that it would start to step up the idle on it's own in 500rpm increments with about a 1 second delay between each step from ~700rpm which was normal, to 1000 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500 finally to 3000rpm. The work around was to reboot by quickly switching the key from RUN-OFF-RUN ... in fact, I would do it so quickly that the engine hadn't even wound down before the key was back to RUN to it would just keep running.

Cruising at 65 what I found was that I could not simply let off the gas pedal because the computer was trying to force the engine to run at 3000rpm... so I'd have to put in the clutch, click RUN-OFF-RUN, take foot off clutch... it would do this about 4-5X week, sometimes all 4-5X would be the same day.

3 mechanics including a Saturn dealer, replaced many parts, no one fixed the problem... of course it being a 1998 and the year being 2004 not many people cared.

Eventually I traded it in... the dealer taking it thought it was pretty funny--the car was idling, we were both standing next to it talking for about 3 minutes... suddenly it decided to start stepping itself up... within ~10 seconds it hit 3000rpm (again, no one in the car, had been idling normal for past few minutes) and he say "Yeaaaa, I think this one will be the first one on the truck to go to auction"

@javi0084: MINI Coopers seem to hold their value like a house. Which seems hugely irrational to me, but since we have one, is very pleasing. For the record, I have a 2003 Ford Explorer. So obviously my next car will be a Honda.

Junk yard visit! Go with somebody who knows what they're doing, or take it to a non dealership mechanic tell them what's what and they'll do the same thing to get it fixed.

or you can rent a car while you wait and hope you can sue them in small claims for the money you spent out of pocket. - for that one I would speak with a lawyer first.

While I'm baffled at the claim that the throttle body isn't part of the powertrain warranty since it's actually part of the freaking engine. I'm more puzzled as to the back-order of the throttle body, of which doesn't have much to do with the transmission other than the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) If that component is having a history of failing on these vehicles (hence the nationwide backorder) then there should be a quiet recall of these (Known in the industry as a TSB) and the part should be replaced at no charge.

OP contact the NTHSA and report the problem. If enough reports come in they will conduct an investigation on the problem. Usually if the issue is somehow safety related (like for instance the engine shutting off at speed) they will force Ford to recall the part.

@admiral_stabbin: "Powertrain" tends to be defined as "Components that are in the oil bath" such as the crank, cams, pistons, torque converter, transmission and differential. Basically the things that rarely fail on modern cars, but which tend to be very expensive to repair. In this example, the throttle body is most certainly not part of the "Powertrain" but I certainly see how it would look like it should be.

@crosenblum:

My current 2000 Blazer w/ 135K has been in the shop 0 times in the past 12 months and 18K miles.

My SO's 2005 Subie Impreza w/ 65K has been in the shop 3X for various reasons, and still has a nasty rattle that they have failed to resolve despite us asking them to fix it on all 3 occasions.

I'm neither impressed w/ the durability/longevity of the Subie or the dealers she's brought them too--we've moved 2-3X and she picks a new dealer that is closer each time, none have been great.

Another friend w/ an 03 Outback had to get a new manual transmission at 130K when his decided to shred itself internally (he's only driven manuals, it was not driver abuse or error) ... not to mention the ridiculous oil consumption on that thing, about a quart every 2-3 weeks (and he's used synthetic since mile 0)

@javi0084:

I think the fact that the car won't work without a part is going to lower the value more than the fact that the model's been discontinued.

Also, it's not Ford's fault you're upside down. How long was your loan for? Longer term loans mean more time upside down as you pay down the balance short.

Depending on the time frame your state sets on lemon law, I would claim lemon law. My uncle's truck was about two years old when I filed his lemon law complaint. The dealer kept the car over 30 days and where I live that is an automatic ticket to a new ride. Contact your state's AG office and they may be able to assist

@RogerX: Nope, not really, not unless it's in the oil bath. Take a look about half way down the following page [www.fordwarrantys.com] to see what the Ford idea of a powertrain is. Note that "Engine" doesn't include anything electronic or electrical (or pneumatic etc) unless it explicitly says it does.

@YouDidWhatNow?: The magic lies in making up your own definition of powertrain;
[www.fordwarrantys.com]
Basically, 'powertrain' is not something with a distinct legal meaning, and it sounds like it should cover much more than it actually does. The devil being in the details and all that.

@Colonel Jack O'Neill: This is not a simple throttle body, it is servo controlled. To my knowledge, there are no aftermarket ones yet.

@Nighthawke: Remind me why it doesn't apply . . .I thought the third time was the charm. Or is it the third thing that goes wrong within a certain period of time?

I am sure some Freestyles have been wrecked by now. Why don't you look online for a junkyard that has one. I had to have a new one put into my Crown Vic, which is 8 years old. THe part itself was around $90, and then like twice that in labor, of course. But for that relatively low price, why not try and agree with Ford that if you can find it in a junkyard they will install it for free, because you'll save them the cost of the rental car. Otherwise, just have an independent mechanic install it. And get it in writing that it is not covered under warranty. That way, if you later have a warranty claim on the engine, they can't suddenly decide it is and that your independent repair voided it.

And watch out with letting Ford find it for you, they might jack up the price.

Had a friend who needed a new transmission for his Buick. Dealer said they could get a used one for $800 + installation. He asked to think about and passed a junkyard on the way home and stopped to see if they had one. Guy at the counter tells him they have it for $400 and if he isn't the same guy who just called from Ford...

@wvFrugan: No. We have an 8 year old car with at least twice the miles and it's pretty much showroom condition. Take care of your car and it'll take care of you.

@RayonFog: Ford disagrees.
[consumerist.com]

@Skankingmike: I was actually thinking the same thing, there must be a handful of scrapped ones out there from being written off in wrecks. That said, with the popularity of the path, it might be like finding hens teeth to actually get one.