Dude, the old Zune plays games. There's no rumor to it. It's truth that the new and old ones do have games.

And i am eagerly awaiting being able to afford a ZuneHD.

If it's done right, this could take back a big chunk of market share - MS might release games that include functionality on both the Zune and Xbox, with the Zune having online play via xbox live.

but i don't think microsoft is doing too well right now, they don't exactly know what their target market is any more (which is why they're losing market share - teens and young adults to apple, "geeks" to linux)

@Ratty: Yay, another Microsoft product that people are stupid enough to buy!

I love the old zune. I will love the new zune. Saying it's not a viable competitor seems a bit misleading. It's definitely a viable competitor. The problem is ipod hit the market way before and set the standard and also became a type of fashion statement. That puts it into a whole new demographic of people who would buy it. That, and all the fanboyism out there for apple products.

" They magazine this promo video, inside, "

Wha?

@gStein: If the Zune HD can play XBLA games I would totally buy one, as I would love a way to play said games on-the-go.

I'd also like a way to play PSP downloadable games on my PS3. Realistically, I see neither of these happening anytime soon.

@GuinevereRucker: There's no stupid involved here. Hardware-wise it is superior to the iPod touch, and I'm guessing you've never actually handled zune software or become familair with things like the Zune pass then?

@Keavy_Rain: i highly doubt that you'd be able to play fully-featured games, due to processor power/battery usage issues - i was thinking more along the lies of either a "lite" version for the zune, or possibly (for certain "live" games) have separate functionality for the zune, possibly have a different character class available on the zune...
(i have a loose idea of what it could be, but since i'm still stuck back in the cartridge generation of console gaming, i don't know enough about current games to fully formulate a plan)

@larrymac: yeah, i read that about 5 times, couldn't decipher it, and moved on

I have one. It's really a fantastic DAP. I'm already playing games on it, but it's app store leaves something to be desired. However, it's damn good at what it's supposed to do (mainly, play music and video).

@Ratty: lol, the old Zune does not play games with 3D graphics rendered in real time.

That's what the excitement is about.

@gStein: Geeks are going apple too; it's only a small subset of geeks who prefer linux over apple for a personal desktop experience.

@GuinevereRucker: The Zune is actually a pretty competent player. I was pleasantly surprised. And the desktop software is awesome.

I love my Zune 8 way better than any ipod I ever owned. I will be buying a Zune HD as soon as I save up for it. It helps that its cheaper than the ipod touches also.

@GuinevereRucker: it has better HW that the ipod touch and far superior SW for the PC. BTW iTunes is bloated shovelware. and I even use a ipod but once it dies I'm moving to a zune.

@gStein: nVidia Tegra does away with the Computing Power and Battery problem.

Microsoft has announced that Audiosurf: Tilt and Project Gotham Racing: Ferrari Edition will both be available on ZuneHD later this year, along with a couple other games I don't remember. The article was on Engadget.

They also said that they want to keep their whole App marketplace (which will include these games) free (but with only first-party apps or working closely with other developers on 3rd-party apps), at least for a while.

If the Zune plays xbox games it could be a great competitor to Sony, and - dare I say - a real threat to Apple. Apple doesn't have a decent game platform to pair its iPhone to. Sony has the PS2/3 and PSP; Nintendo has the Gameboy (I assume the Wii and Gameboy can play nice together, I know the Nintendo Cube did...)

I guess it's how important is tying. But if I can buy a game for my xbox and then play it for free on my Zune - on the go - you bet I'm considering that.

What's odd is I love the FM/HD tuner, but no AM? Eesh my cheapass Sansa can do that.

Honestly the features looked really great but most review sites have brought up so many shortcomings I don't think I will bother getting one.

@dohtem: The 4.0 software is spectacular.

Yeah, they already play games. It's no big secret. The big improvement is now they'll support 3d games because of the Tegra chip. Have you ever even used a Zune?

They're not aiming for the PSP/DS market. How could they? It's not built to be a portable gaming system, it's built to be a portable music player. Games are just value-added features. And with Microsoft keeping their applications in-house, how could they possibly compete with all the third party competitors the DS/PSP have? Unless, of course, they're not even trying to.

Have iPods broken in on the DS/PSP market? No. Are the Zune HD's graphics capabilities be better than the iPod? Yes. Does that mean the Zune HD will replace a DS? No.

@dreamsneverend:
What shortcomings (not to say that there aren't)? The only reviews I've seen up are from Gizmodo and Ars and both seemed pretty impressed.

That's not Forza Motorsport 3.

Forza has always had standardized black transparent instrumentation, while the Tachometer in corner of the screen in the video is accurate to the car being driven - the Ferrari F430.

It's Project Gotham Racing: Ferrari Edition, which was mentioned in this article:

[www.engadget.com]

@GuinevereRucker:
It's not stupid. The Zune is a very nice mp3 player. I liked it because of the built in radio.

Of course the iPod was much easier to use, and the iPhone has an iPod in it, so Apple's share is much larger, not to mention it was first to market, and again, iTunes is alot easier to use than the Zunes software.

But this HD one, with built in HD radio tuner will be nice for people who use it in the car. You wont have to buy an HD radio HU our a converter for it, just a way to hook the zune up to your car.

@melloncollie128: Exactly, everything I have read has been overwhelmingly positive.

@GuinevereRucker: I was a staunch iPodder, but I ended up switching to the Zune. It's less prone to breaking down, and the user interface is far superior to the iPod, really good stuff.

@dreamsneverend: I've never seen a portable MP3 player with an AM tuner. Lots of them have FM tuners, yes, but not AM. Which Sansa do you have? I've had several and they all did FM, but no AM.

@gStein: "i don't think microsoft is doing too well right now, they don't exactly know what their target market is any more"

Careful, don't confuse you not exactly knowing who their target market is with Microsoft not exactly knowing who their target market is, because I'm pretty sure they do.

does the Zune do divx/xvid? if not then I'll pass.

@melloncollie128: Try [www.appleinsider.com]

@BobSalawalatski: Audiosurf? ohhhhh. Want.

@logicalnoise: iTunes really is the worst program ever. It never works properly and the DRM protections are the most annoying thing EVER.

@fantomesq: Oh god, that ridiculous article? It's completely bias and doesn't even try to hide the fact. It's simply an appleinsider writer getting his panties in a knot over the fact that Microsoft actually released a DAP worth buying.

In its three years on the market, the Zune has yet to emerge as a viable opposition to the iPod.

So Phil, guy that posted this, like apple products a bit do you? As you can see there are alot of us that enjoy our zune. I wouldnt be caught dead with an apple anything, ever.

@2 replies by: they are going for the "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" method right now... their advertising is ambiguous at best (currently they appear to be selling hardware in their commercials... NOT any software) and their latest generation of operating system was supposed to get users back from the apple OS market, while attempting to increase security, but only drove away users.

In my opinion, Microsoft should clarify their different operating systems: Windows Server/Professional for workplace environments, Windows Gamer targeted towards the gamer market, and some sort of basic model, something like Windows for Parents, that doesn't have all of the bells and whistles that tend to confuse my parents (and grandmother). Even if they aren't actually separate operating systems, i'd like to see a "grandma-friendly" account setting that limits what she can break (and preferably with included remote desktop so i can fix her PC from 200 miles away)

and my original comment was supposed to be on how they could market the Zune to grab the attention of the xbox live market - they really shouldn't be marketing an iPod killer, because they won't beat ipod as a music player, but they might be able to beat ipod based on tie-ins with other games

@Goatweed: if not out of the box, there will be a hack within a week

@fantomesq:
That's from appleinsedr, what does that tell you, they all apple fanboys, they don't like anything else besides apple.

@dreamsneverend: my phone (LG VX 8560/Chocolate 3) has an FM Transmitter, which is nice. One of my friends works for Broadcom, and (according to him) the wifi chip in the iPhone 3GS will also receive FM radio

@humphrmi: Wii and Gameboy (read: DS) do some collaborating, but not to the extent that the GC and GBA did for their games. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it there isn't much going on between the two.

However, if the Zune HD can collaborate with your XBL account I can surely see many people considering it, including myself. Some XBLA titles would probably take very little tinkering to get them to work.

@gStein: I'm with the others... i think it;s you who is confused, not Microsoft.

@downwithmonstercable:

No. The problem is simple math. The Ipod sells 18 units for every zune sold. I don't own either one, so I'm not fanboi-ing it up here, its just simple math.

There aren't enough Zune owners currently to make it a viable competitor. With the new one? Who knows. My guess is it'll do better, but what's that mean for microsoft? 8% of the market instead of 6?

I'm trying to see how this story fits within the Consumerist's mission of protecting consumers or reporting on cnosumer abuse..

This applies to people who game who are not me. I know there is a huge market for gamers, but I can't be bothered with it.

Because we all know what drives the digital audio player market. AM radio.

@dreamsneverend: I've never seen any kind of PMP or other device that has an AM tuner. It was my understanding that interference prevented that being a viable option... but I was a CS major, so I don't know if that's true.

In any case, many AM stations are broadcast in HD Radio as a subchannel. Here in the DC area, for example, 630 AM is, IIRC, 170.3-HD3.

@Colonel Jack O'Neill: I don't know about that. They make some good points in the article.

@DefineStatutory: I understand what you're saying - but that's not what I'm talking about. Product A hits the market, everybody loves it, it takes up 90% of the market share, the remaining 10% is filled up with various other competing items that came on the market later. Product B hits the market, is equally as awesome as product A, but is years late in the game. It may even be superior to product A, but because of its late entry to the market, everybody already has product A and has no need for it. It's a perfectly viable competitor - it looks good, functions good, is cheaper, etc. But it's fighting an uphill battle against an established icon whose followers are fanboys.

I don't like any of these devices, unless I actually see it do what it is supposed to do, I am not buying anything. Apple majorly disappointed me by not including a camera in its latest iPod touch but now that just means that I don't have to become a slave to Apple products for the rest of my life. It seems like once you purchase an Apple product you become a slave to upgrading it every year. I have seen so many people in my family go through this that I don't want the products to infect my household. Your essentially spending $200 or more for 12 months use of a product or less depending on when you buy it. If you can actually get past the next upgrade without buying it your battery will probably be dead in a year or 1.5 years and you have to pay apple a hefty fee to change it for you which again, is lovely. I don't know too many apple fans who can live with themselves if they don't upgrade on apple's whim though.

I don't like the fact that all these devices use non-user replaceable batteries. If I use the item a lot the battery will be gone in a year and I can't change it myself. It just feels like wasted money. What is going to happen to all the iPod touches and other devices that people discard because of poor battery life so they don't have to pay apple or another company to change the battery. We are creating a lot of electronic waste here that we don't have to.

Both the Zune and touch are guilty of using propreitary software too, which means no dragging and dropping of files, which basically means a no sale for me. There is also no flash support on the web browser (at least on the touch), which IMO makes it kind of pointless to use especially when I have my own computer. Its not like I can't wait till I get home to use the internet.

@Ratty: Yup. I installed that yesterday and I've be playing with the SmartDJ. So far so good. I recommend it even for those that don't own a Zune. I ditched SongBird for it.

I just haven't updated to the 3.2 firmware on my Zune80 yet.

@downwithmonstercable: You don't have to be a fanboy to own an iPod. On the contrary, I'd say that with the sheer number of people who have them at this stage, the majority aren't fanboys, but people who wanted an MP3 player and, for various reasons, chose an iPod. A lot of the people I've met who own iPods (and having worked at both Apple and Best Buy at various times, there have been a lot) really don't know much, if anything about Apple or even the iPod itself beyond the specific model that they own. They're not particularly fanboyish not least because they're not all that aware of the other options that exist; the iPod was the most visible player on the market, the most familiar based on what the people they knew had, and that was what they got. I don't know anyone, off the top of my head, who goes around trying to tell people that their ownership of an iPod is some kind of a lifestyle statement.

I think the biggest thing standing in the Zune's way, independent of the iPod's marketshare, is the fact that because iPods are so ubiquitous, getting accessories for them is very, very easy. There are thousands of options for cases, screen protectors, docking stations, FM transmitters... you can go into convenience stores and pick up iPod stuff. Accessories for the Zune? Not so much. Go into a Best Buy, and you'll see a good wall and a half of iPod/iPhone stuff and maybe a quarter of a wall of things for the Zune. When someone gets an MP3 player, aside from putting their music and stuff on it, they want to be able to get a cute case, maybe a speaker dock, whatever- and they want a range of options for those things. The simple fact is that if you buy a non-Apple MP3 player, your options are much more limited.

Microsoft's doing their best, and I've had friends who had Zunes and really liked them, but the Zune was just released way too late to really have a fair shake at the market. Apple was way, way ahead of the curve on the MP3 player thing, and they're reaping the benefits now- and I don't think acknowledging that is fanboyism. Actually, I'd say that you tend to get more fanboys in the Zune camp in part because it's more of a cult favorite; the user base is much smaller, but those still riding the Zune train are, in my experience, much more hardcore about sticking with the Zune.