Problem is...is that no new car dealer will give you a print out of a vehicle's service records and if you buy the car from anyone else, they don't have access to it anyhow.

Marketplace did an episode on how useless Carfax is, including an on-the-spot interview with Carfax management.

[www.cbc.ca]

Years ago I bought a van that had a clean carfax report, and when the engine died the day after I bought it, I took it to my mechanic, and he said parts of the engine were held together with putty. I will never buy another used car without getting a mechanic to look at it first, and I will never pay for a carfax again.

I once got into an accident, and the other party and I drove to the police station to fill out the police report. The accident never appeared on that car's Carfax report, even 2 years later.

Some years later, I received an email from Carfax (as I had been a client) asking me to write my local Illinois congressperson to support a law requiring that accident and repair data be submitted to some registry that could be accessed by Carfax (or something to that effect). Such measures apparently didn't exist in Illinois at the time.

The take-away: Getting a Carfax report won't hurt, but I wouldn't rely on it as a gold standard of a vehicle's history.

Considering the number of people I know that have repaired damaged and/or wrecked cars themselves in order to avoid being butt-raped by insurance companies, I'm not surprised.

@shepd: I figured as much, I hate the smug tone of their ads, which would have you believe the carfax is like the ultimtate, most important document you want when buying a car.

@rpm773: My take-away from your story and the OPs is that a Carfax is completely useless. If it's easily capable of missing that much information, what good is it?

We bought a high end sports car using Carfax. The report came back clean. When we got the car and attempted to register it, it came back with a salvage title - thus reducing the value of the car considerably. We bought another car later. It comes up with a branded title per Carfax. The site that Carfax gets ITS information from shows absolutely NO problem with this car. Two out of two bad information (and costly) for us using Carfax. They suck.

As far as the recommendation to get a car checked out by an independent mechanic, I had a hard time with that when shopping for used cars by owner. They weren't necessarily against it, just always ended up selling it before they could make time to have me bring it to the mechanic. Might be easier when buying from a dealer.

About five years ago, my husband got in an accident with one of our cars. It was fully reported to the insurance company, police, etc, and we used the recommended body shop. The entire front end of the car had to be replaced, to the tune of $6000. It was definitely a major repair.

Two years ago, when we were looking to replace that car, we subscribed to Car Fax. On a whim, we typed in the car's VIN to see what was listed. Sure enough, there was zero information about the accident.

If there is not mandatory reporting, then really the Car Fax is a useless tool in purchasing a used car.

CarFax also has all sorts of disclaimers that basically renders the information useless. On their home page: "CARFAX Vehicle History Reports are based on information supplied to CARFAX. CARFAX does not have the complete history of every vehicle."

@shepd: Carfax is good to an extent but its pretty damn easy to get around. I bought a car and it got hit while parked a long time ago. The front spoiler revealed from the scratches that it wasnt original. The repairs I did to it (control arm, fender, steering rack) never made it to carfax. But I wasnt really going out of my way to tell the person that bought it.

Buying a used car requires a lot of homework. First you have to find a good reliable model. You would have to pay me money to take a used Ford or Chevy. Last year I bought a used Toyota 4Runner. I used a monthly membership to CarFax. This allowed me to save time and not drive across town to see a car that CarFax listed as having problems in the past. Once I found the car I wanted I paid a trusted mechanic $80 to look over the entire vehicle. Luckily the mechanic owns two 4Runners and he knew the problems they might have. He gave the car a clean bill of health. I mentioned some of the concerns that I had about the car and he told me that it is a common issue but not really a problem. The mechanic looked up the recommended maintenance schedule and let me know what type up maintenance would likely be in the near future. One of these was a timing belt and he let me know that 4Runners don't tear up the engine when the timing belt breaks.

I would say that CarFax is still a valuable service if you use it correctly.

@Shadowman615: It's good for telling you what not to buy. Basically, you'll know that some cars are bad, while the rest you'll have to do more research on. Think of it as initial research to disqualify the easy to identify bad apples.

Saying that CarFax is useless is like saying that a knife is a useless eating utensil. If used by itself then yes the knife is a fairly useless eating utensil. If you use the knife along with a fork then you are able use both of them together to eat a civilized meal.

@Shadowman615: I don't think it would hurt to check it, just in case something does appear on the report. It would save you the hassle of having to get every car you're considering checked out by a mechanic.

If you buy the unlimited checks for 30 days program (if it still exists), one can think of it as the first step in filtering out undesirable cars.

We bought a used car months ago, that had a completely clean carfax. The paint on the rear bumper started to bubble up (which is a red flag for bodywork), and the shop said it looks like it had some rear end damage and the bumper had been repaired. Luckily the dealer took care of it by repainting the bumper, but...you never know what you will get. Only reported accidents go on carfax. They could have bumped into a tree and fixed it themselves.

@Chmeeee: There you go :)

funny, this is posted 3 minutes after i commented about carfax on another thread.

i think carfax is still useful, but #1 & #2 on your to-do list when buying a used car should be "consult a trusted mechanic for an inspection" & "check dealer records".

in these days of computers, i think pretty much every dealership enters service information whenever they do work can be accessed from any dealer under the same brand. since most cars are serviced at the dealer while under warranty & many of these owners continue service at the dealership when the warranty expires, you should get a pretty good idea of whether the car is a dud or not from these records.

no records? you should seriously consider no deal (or press the seller for detailed service records & negotiate a lower price).

@sir_pantsalot: Good analogy! :)

@sir_pantsalot: I also bought my vehicle from a small dealer lot. They had lots of good reviews online. The dealer sets the price on the vehicle and no negotiating (like Carmax). If a vehicle seemed like it was priced too low I would ask why and they would tell me what was wrong with it. It seems impossible but I would say they were an honest used car dealership.

@sir_pantsalot: The problem I see with your analogy is that the knife isn't advertised as to being all you need to be able to eat. In the CarFax commercials they make it seem that you need to is a CarFax report. That's quite a bit misleading as far as I'm concerned.

@AllanG54:

Actually not true.

My local GM dealer sells his own line of certified vehicles. The vehicles are all owned by the dealers family, major employees or well established customers (aka the dealerships lawyer and outside accountant, favorite local clergy member etc) for whom the dealership provides complete service. These people buy a car and trade it in every two years. Complete dealership service records, including a user smoking or nonsmoking statement, are kept with the car on the used car sales lot. Might have 2-3 cars per month that meet the criteria. Damn right I am going to buy one of those cars.

The local Toyota dealer was doing the same thing with his fleet of demos (family, sales people etc) until Mamma Toyota fussed at him about certifying his own used cars.

A few years ago I used Carfax when buying a used car. I bought a package that allowed me to check a number of VINs for a certain period of time (I forget what exactly it was). After buying my car (which had a clean Carfax report and has been a great car) I decided to have some fun and put in the VIN number of a car I junked a few years before. It came up clean. No problems. I was listed as the last owner. In my yard I had an old Alfa Romeo I bought as a parts car. It had been hit hard in the back end. I put that VIN in. Guess what? It came up clean too. In fact, every VIN number of every car I had and junked came up clean.

Carfax is a good tool, but it is not foolproof.

"I don't believe these facts are generally known, especially with the barrage of CarFax commercials that make it appear to be the "know it all" ultimate decision-making tool."

What?! The commercial made the product appear better then it really is?! What next? My freecreditreport.com credit reports won't actually be free?

@Bogart's Falcon: Just Forget the Other Name: I hope you never get contacted by a Nigerian Prince. Like I tell my children (as their hearts break), if they are advertising to you you must assume they are lying to you. Every time you see a commercial you should be skeptical.

Yeah you can't trust stuff like that. If you don't know anything about cars yourself, you really need to get that one friend who just knows everything about cars. Personally, I know a little bit, but when I bought my last motorcycle I called my buddy Chris (who lives and breathes cars every minute of his free time). When I bought my last car, I called my uncle who can fix anything and can spot something out of the ordinary in a heartbeat. Still no substitute for the gear head friend.

@sir_pantsalot: I bought my Ford used and have driven it for 9 years without a problem.

My wife's Toyota is also used, and 7 years later it's falling apart - at least the ECM thinks it is.

Good that the 4Runner has a non-interference engine, though. Both of mine do. If the timing belt breaks the engine will just quit.

Make sure you inspect it regularly, though. Your mechanic can show you what to look for, and it's pretty easy to do when checking your fluids.

@Xerloq wants to...: I wish the general public was more educated about cars and worry about more than just the color. There is no reason to build new cars that have interference engines. If people would not buy them they would stop making them.

Wow, another reason for me to thank Consumerist. This is why I read this site regularly. It wouldn't have occurred to me that reporting to CarFax is VOLUNTARY and that sellers could conceal stuff about the cars they're trying to sell.

(Well, maybe it would have eventually occurred to me, but only after I had personal experience with a CarFax report that omitted critical data... and by then, it might have been too late.)

I've learned to be a lot more cautious since reading this website. And truthfully, I always thought I *was* a very careful consumer.

Thanks again, Consumerist! That's why you're one of my favorite morning reads.

"In fact, every VIN number of every car I had and junked came up clean.

Carfax is a good tool, but it is not foolproof."

If every car came out clean, how is Carfax a good tool?

@sir_pantsalot: The Country of Nigeria demands that you apologize for this post. You know I'm legitimate since I referenced an article on another site, and I have the word "Barrister" in my name.

Good luck getting it to an independant mechanic before the owner sells it though.

The problem with Cardfax is thier advertising: among other benefits, they specifically infer that thier service provides protection against mechanical issues/health, which they simply can't know much of anything about.

Advetise a service that can help against title issues, accidents/salvage, and the like, fine. But mechanical health? Simply from their service? I don't think so, but that's what thier commercials seem to overtly imply.

I recently checked a truck I was condsidering buying, and Autocheck (owned by Experian) had more records for the VIN than Carfax, and was cheaper to boot.

(I'm not affiliated with any of them FWIW.)

C-

I bought a min van a few years ago and the dealership showed me a recent Carfax report on the van. Nothing but good things. I asked the sales person if there was any damage to the van. They informed me that there was nothing wrong with it and that they had their mechanics check it out. They even went so far as to put it in writing. A couple of years later I decided that I wanted to trade the van for a truck. I found one that I wanted and went to trade the van in. When they came back and told me that all they would give me was $500 for the van I was furious. I demanded to know why so little since the blue book on the van was $7500 and I still owed $5700 on it. They said that the van had frame damage. I asked them to show me and they did. I immediately left there and went striaght to the dealership where I bought the van. I told them what I had found out and demanded to knowwhy this was not diclosed to me when I bought it. They said that when they sold me th van there was nothing wrong with it and that I must have wrecked it. they pulled the Carfax report on it to prove to me that I had done the damage. When they looked at the report that were puzzled. The van had been wrecked, but it was one month before I bought it. I asked how their mechanics missed the frame damage and they had no answer. They said they wanted to make it right so they were willing to trade the van in on something else. Not trusting them any more I told them that they did not have anything on the lot that I wanted. They told me that if I found somehting somewhere else that I wanted they would purchase it for me and then trade the van for it. I told them about the truck and they sent a sales person over there that evening and bought it. I went back the next day and traded the van in (they actually gave me $5700 plus the $1500 I had put down on the van). The price of the truck was $1200 less than the other dealership had it priced at. They said that they got it for less since it was a dealership to dealership sale. Overall I came out ahead, but learned that you cannot trust Carfax or in this case even the dealerships mechanics.

@rpm773: Yeah, a truck smashed the side of my car over a year and a half ago, requiring replacement of the side pillar (almost had to total the car), but it wasn't showing up on the CarFAX report 8 months later. If structural damage doesn't show up on the report, what good is it (besides an initial filter)?

I have heard this same basic story from two people I work with. Apparently, CarFax are pretty worthless.

Carfax and Auto Check are only valid for ownership history and title information. All other items require professional inspection. Dealers won't tell you what they know, and don't have to by law. Used is definitely the way to go, but it is 100% buyer beware.

This story illustrates perfectly the shortcomings of carfax. What bothers me the most about them is that they claim dealers who aren't reputible won't give you one for the car you're buying. In realty, they are just smiting the dealers who won't pay their massive fees for a dealer carfax account.

I work at a new car dealer and I have seen the auction lists. I've seen the list of a certain german luxury manufacturer and there were pages of cars that said things like "hood replaced doors replaced, repainted, CLEAN CARFAX". Just think about that. Some of the most expensive luxury cars with MASSIVE prior accidents, and carfax can't tell you that.

Oh, and any dealer who isn't a total d-bag WILL tell you if the warranty is still valid on a car, even if you're not going to buy it from them. If they don't, call someone else and keep trying. Be extra careful when dealing with sporty cars like WRXs and things like that. Dealers don't mind voiding the hell out of a warranty for things they shouldn't (like cold air kits, and other things that won't really hurt the engine)

I think the moral of the story here is instead of using Carfax to verify good cars, use it to verify bad cars (inverse logic.) If it shows up on Carfax with a bad record, you should definitely not consider it. But if the Carfax is clean, take the time to have a mechanic inspect it, especially if buying from a private party or a used-car only shop.

@billlnv: That's a fairly good-faith maneuver by the dealership you bought the van from...I'd love to see that story on my site if you click on my name and follow the link.

@starrion: Because even if false negatives are rampant, if you are unlikely to get a false positive, there can be a place for the tool.

Yes, everything he junked came back good. But it is unlikely that something good will come back junked.

There is no incentive for the owner of a vehicle to report that it is a total loss or has excessive damage.

I've used Carfax for the $30 or whatever their fee is just because they guarantee it against being declared a total loss.

I also get a warranty on my used car or I don't buy the dang thing. It's a gamble buying used, but if you have low miles and only a few years old it's better than taking the hit on depreciation with a new car. (I think.)

I wonder how hard it would be to go in to a dealership's repair shop and bluff/social engineer your way into getting a copy of a cars repair history...

@rpm773: I bought a car with a clean Carfax about 6 months ago, despite its having suffered obvious front-end damage. I had it checked out and determined the was no reason not to buy the car despite the damage (and despite the inaccurate report). It runs fine.

@cc82: I'm looking into buying a used car within the next year. Getting inspected by an independent mechanic sounds like a great idea - my parents moved recently and had an independent contractor friend do a walk through inspection before they even put a bid in, which turned out to be a great move so it makes sense to me. Anyone know how much it generally costs to have a mechanic inspect a car you're looking to purchase? Has anybody done this and are most dealers/owners cooperative?

@calquist: Just because other companies also lie doesn't make it right. I agree it's myopic to assume that a company is telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but it's still unethical and often illegal and people have a right to be pissed off when they're misled.

@AllanG54: I keep all my vehicle service records and make them available to a buyer when I sell the car.