unless you are paying cash you have to have them run your credit anyways, right?

@itiswhatitis: Not if you got a loan through another source, like your bank.

@itiswhatitis: Yes, but that's during the financial stage, and only if you're financing with the dealership. If you come with your own financing from a bank, they have no reason to run your credit.

Another problem I see is that when you test drive, you need to turn over your license for them to see. I don't get why they would ever have to walk off with your license, but if they do, and they scan it to access your credit report to then see how much money you may be capable of spending, I see a big problem. It may affect how they treat you, how much they're willing to budge on a sale (if they know you've got more than enough income to pay full MSRP) and whether they'll try to steer you more aggressively toward higher-cost packages.

@itiswhatitis: But at what point in the conversation are they checking your credit? It's been many years since I've set foot in a dealership, but I seem to remember them taking a copy of my license in order to let me test drive a car. At that point I haven't said that I want to buy anything or that I will be needing them to extend credit to me. If I test drive cars at several dealerships and each one pulls a credit report then that can seriously mess with my score because of the excessive number of inquiries, can't it?

Hand them the keys to your car, decline giving them your DL. Let them look at it to verify its legitimate and current, but do not let them take it. If they're not willing to let you test drive without copying your license, go elsewhere.

@TexasMama37: ah. The last (and only time) I bought a car was 5 years ago and I already knew that I was going to leave the dealership that day with a vehicle. So I guess with that being said alot I had everything rolled into one, test drive, credit run and financing through the dealer.

Thanks for enlightening me.

@itiswhatitis: Not necessarily... Just bot a new car from Santa Monica Toyota, no trade, credit union financed, and could not complete the purchase until the finance manager had a complete credit application, including two references. This came directly from the FI guy, not his flunkies. Would not let me make the purchase until the app was completed, including two freaking references! FI manager indicated this was "security reason" know your customer, etc. And before anyone jumps in with the smart @$$ remark of should've left, the car I bought was $5k below dealer invoice, not something i found other dealers willing to negotiate on. Plus, i got the free OEM custom floor mats. :)

@harrypsk: Seriously? What state/county do you live in where they let you test drive without a d/l on file??? Ain't it an insurance thing for the dealership???

@harrypsk: Harry, just wondering - have you tried to buy a car recently? I did - every dealer made a copy of my license and my insurance card when I went on a test drive (with a salesman in the car) - I would have been laughed off the lot if I tried to simply leave them the keys to my car....

@pecan 3.14159265: It may affect how they treat you, how much they're willing to budge on a sale (if they know you've got more than enough income to pay full MSRP) and whether they'll try to steer you more aggressively toward higher-cost packages.

It will affect how they treat you. They're using it to see if you're worth the trouble (or someone test driving a car that costs twice his annual salary). Time is money.

However, If you're an informed buyer and confident negotiator, the pressure to pay MSRP or purchase more options should not matter. In the end, they're the ones who have to sell the car. You can always walk.

That all said, if the buyer doesn't want his credit run prior to taking a test drive, he/she should have that option. But you may get some push back on the request to test drive that Ferrari. :)

@harrypsk: They wouldn't have felt better holding the keys to my old car. Lol it was a 1990 Honda civic. Just got rid of it last year, we drove it into the ground by the time we were ready for a new one.

So my question is-- if you can pull my credit and need to use my SSN.... why the cr*p do I need to keep giving it to everyone when I need credit?

Am I missing something?

correction: ..and *not* need to use my ssn...

@harrypsk: I don't think it works that way. When I was car shopping a few years back, every dealership needed a copy of your DL before they would let you test drive. I remember some dealerships making copies.

Most dealerships just photocopy your DL and file it. So make your own copies of your DL, and pass them out as needed when you test drive. Make sure you write on them "I DO NOT AUTHORIZE ANY CREDIT CHECK AT THIS TIME" or something to that effect.

Permit them to verify it's a legit copy if they push. But if this ok with them, they lose my business.

@castlecraver: *if this isn't ok...

Don't they legally need you to approve of them running your credit? They aren't supposed to run it without permission. I can see how they could physically do it, but how is it legal?

I would think it also goes to customer experience. You would think there might be a dealer or two around that decides to make the experience a little better than normal and sleazily running credit without permission doesn't do that. I guess I am naive.

Would having a fraud alert on your credit report resolve this issue?

I am not surprised at all.. I wanted to test drive a toyota yaris manual 5dr since i got the 09 auto. I like stick more. They only asked for DL. I saw a soft pull on my credit report from frontier toyota in Valencia. When they saw that my 09 is paid and I have no financing they immediately started to tell me their car sold at sticker plus tax etc. They did not even mention the rebates that come for it.

@frank64: Should of read first. Dealer does not need permission. Doesn't seem right. How did that get past the law makers?

@pecan 3.14159265:

Not to be snarky here , but the knowledge that they will do a soft credit pull is factored into my discussions with them. I assume that they will see my score and understand that I have options...Options that don't include them if they begin playing games with me.

A couple of points here;

1) People with good credit generally know that they have same. They don't care who knows it because they are (probably) already smart enough to walk if the dealer starts greasing them up to be screwed.

2) People with sorry credit are usually (but not always) in that position because they have screwed the pooch at some point in times past and the dealer is going to use that against them. Deal with it.

Knowing this ,if you walk on a dealers lot , assume that they will try everything fair and foul to get as much money from you as possible. Just knowing the license gambit is a critical piece of information that you should factor in to your car buying efforts.

Isn't a credit check done by a car dealership considered a "hard pull" and can ding your credit score?

Pulling someone's credit report without a permissible purpose violates the FCRA. And what constitutes a permissible purpose is pretty specific. Dealers that pull people's credit "just in case" when they hand over their license for a test drive are going to quickly find themselves in a world of hurt.

You don't see too many lawsuits regarding FCRA violations because it's not as clear-cut as the FDCPA. Also, portions of the law are not privately actionable and require a state's AG to call down the thunder instead. However, these types of FCRA violations *are* privately actionable and have quite a bit of case law behind them (Pintos v. Pacific Creditors being the "landmark" example).

@frank64: Really it seems they aren't following the law. There are supposed to be fines and since they DO violate you would think their account would be revoked.

@KLETCO: No.

As I've been saying on consumerist for YEARS, your SSN does not = your credit worthiness, and is not required to establish OR check credit. Now if a dealership is going to be that shady, all I ask in return is a loan that doesn't have my SSN on it.

@whateverthisis:

Not at all, you DONT have to give your SSN, that's the point.

[www.docdroppers.org]

@Snarkysnake: It's not just about knowing the information, though, as pecanpi points out. It's about the fact that their inquiries have an effect on my report.

@castlecraver: I'm with harrypsk - I'll give them proof that I'm a legal driver; my car keys and registration, they can even have a copy of my insurance card. But no more drivers license. The credit shenanigans stop. Now.

When I bought my last car, they let me test drive without copying my license. Of course the salesman always comes along...

I can look up just about anyone's DL # legally, so can anyone else.

1. Get account with TU.
2. Look up random people's credit using DL.
3. Apply for credit in their names.
4. Profit?

I was showing the database I use to a friend the other night and I looked up my car's plate number. Turns out, the great State of Texas issued another plate with the same number to some guy in San Antonio last year. It's a personalized plate that's been current for over 11 years.
I called up TXDOT today and they were very concerned, said they were taking it seriously and that someone would call me w/in 24 hrs.

My main concern is that the truck he has the plate on is similar to my truck, if he gets a camera ticket, they might send it to me. If he does something bad, they'll come find me and say I switched my plate from my car to my truck.[/paranoid]

As paranoid as I am about unauthorized access to my credit, I'm not so concerned about this unless it actually constitutes a hard hit on my credit. If a dealer wants a preliminary "is he really capable of buying this car" score, that's okay with me. But if that credit check actually shows up as an inquiry (and by extension, lowers my score), this is NOT okay with me, and I'd dispute any such inquiry if it appeared on my credit.

Does anyone know? The article at Consumer Reports doesn't clarify this point; it just says they can access the credit, not whether or not it's considered an actual full inquiry.

I like castlecraver's suggestion; it seems the most obvious solution to the problem. Just make sure you scrawl that in ink across the card itself so it can't be cropped or erased.

For the 2nd time today on Consumerist I'm saying that I had to jump through many memory hoops (recalling addresses from 20+ yrs ago) to prove that I'm who I say I am, just so I could get a copy of MY OWN credit report. Why on F-ing earth can anyone with a business get that info with as little as a drivers license? Something is seriously wrong here.

@kaliforniakid: Whether or not you should have given them the information, the "reason" given to you by the finance guy was a lie. "Know your customer" would just mean they have to see a government ID if you're not applying for a loan from them. He wanted the info to try to lure you into a loan from a lender who'd pay the dealership for closing the loan... no more, no less.

@Ihaveasmartpuppy: I was about to post the exact same comment. Why does someone who admits that they're not me get to see my credit report with so little info but I can't?

@harrypsk: Although I think most dealerships would only go for that if your current car was close to the price of the car you're test driving I think the car dealer should be willing to go with you on your test drive.

@kaliforniakid: @kaliforniakid: I would have said goodbye.

*I have my own financing, I am not interested in yours.
*I have shown you multiple forms of valid ID.
*This is a certified method of payment.

We bought a car once with a Capital One preapproved letter, which provided a list of dealerships... and assured us, and warned/reminded the dealerships, that there would be no credit check.
They pulled our credit file anyway.

@rpm773: Having good credit has nothing to do with salary. It just means you've paid your bills on time, for the most part. Having good credit is not an indication that you have a lot of money.

I thought all dealerships did this and have been doing this for a long time. I don't think it's anything new. Doesn't make it right, but I expect it to happen.

@oldgraygeek: They probably pulled it to figure out if they can beat the credit union's offer and sell it to you. They make so much on financing, selling cars is an afterthought!

@johnva: That's exactly right. It's not like your credit score shows any income. It just shows how much credit you have available, how much you've used, and how faithful you've been paying the companies that report.

@johnva: True, but if the dealer pulls a report they can still get a good picture of the financial prowess of whom they're dealing with. Mortgage information, past car payments, etc.

@whateverthisis: The article only says that TransUnion will give a report to car dealers based on your DL. It doesn't say anything about the other two reporting agencies or businesses that aren't car dealerships.

@KLETCO: Fraud alerts stop companies from issuing a new line of credit, they have no bearing on pulling a report.

@secret_curse:

READ:

[www.docdroppers.org]

AND

[www.docdroppers.org]

SSN is not required, there is no law requiring an SSN on loans, in fact until recently SSN wasn't required for much of anything until the Patriot Act was passed, even then if you had an account previously you can still open another account with the same institution if the bank has 'reason to believe it can verify your true identity and you're already a customer'.

@frank64: Yes they do, this article is false, we need explicit signed permission under the most recent laws to run a credit check.

While transunion might have laxed rules, it doesn't preclude the law.

Bought car 12-07, Toyota put 20 hits on my car would not sell me even a clunker, but let me use loaner for aweek! Went to Honda, they told me what happened said my credit was great before Toyota and sold me a nice new car. Still not recovered from all the hits. You never know what they are doing while they are "getting you coffee"

@Ezra Ekman: I am nearly certian it is a hard inquiry. They are saying you are applying for a car loan.

If you are worried about an unauthorized credit check then I suggest you use the 'credit freeze' option. I thought everyone did that nowadays. Sheesh!