I bought a Mac in the mid-'90s that came with free lifetime tech support. After a few years they decided to start charging a fee. I complained and got one free tech support call--all I ever needed.

Later Apple was forced by the feds to refund all monies spent by customers who were covered and also continue lifetime tech support at no charge.

I think this is similar. The can't change teh rules that were made at the time of purchase. I'd suggest a complaint to the state's Attorney General's office.

Don't be fooled by the Tivo come-on. A lot of their stuff is/was great. But the main product in their lineup today -- the Tivo HD -- has a major defect that Tivo has known about for years.

These units are known to suddenly stop receiving analog channels. Thus, the unit often fails to record shows; it's rasion d'etre! A reboot restores the signal, but a reboot take almost 5 minutes (!) and whatever show was unrecorded during the signal loss is gone.

The company has not fessed up to this issue publicly, or refunded fees. They keep saying, either it's all in our heads, or the next update will fix it. But there are lengthy discussion threads on the Tivo forums. LOTS of Tivo units are having this problem.

People should stay away from Tivo until 1) this issue is fixed, and 2) Tivo commits to be honest with the public about product defects. Until then, I beg you, please do not do business with Tivo.

@akieran: Well since it's all digital now is that really a problem?

Whenever someone offers a lifetime anything (service, guarantee, etc.) the question is "whose lifetime?" I make sure I put it in the name of my 5-year-old grandson.

I have a Tivo series 2 that I received as a gift in 2004. I paid $299 for the lifetime service and it is still going strong nearly 5 years later. Paying month-to-month, I would have spent about $800, so I feel that I got my money's worth.

"In order to make financial sense, the DVR needs to last four years after the customer purchases a lifetime service plan. The $150 transfer fee means that a lifetime plan is now an even poorer investment."

How do you get four years? The service is $12.95 monthly or $399 lifetime. The box needs to last 2 years and 7 months to break even, not four years. Factoring in the transfer, it would have to last 3 years, 6 months to break even. Maybe you shouldn't be giving investment advice if you can't perform basic math.

@akieran: I've had a TiVo HD for about 1.8 years now and have never once had the problem you describe.

Not once.

Not saying it's not true, although I'd take this with a grain of salt. I use a dual cable card in my setup and it works perfectly. Yes I have digital cable but I also receive many analog channels flawlessly (except they look like crap, but that's with any converter).

Unfortunately, the sarcasm of your article title will be lost on lots of readers who don't make it through the entire thing.

I was thinking about buying a Tivo due to the positive response from others who had one in the past. Now, it looks like they lost any chance of getting me as a customer. I'm sure they will lose many more people down the road.

@SabreDC: You can buy service for three years at $299. If you pay month-to-month after that, you're paying roughly the same amount as the lifetime plan for 3 years, 7 months of service.

You're partially right about my math, since buying lifetime service presumes that the DVR will last longer than 3 years, 7 months. I guess I rounded up.

Of course, this all depends on the cost of the service staying the same--I pay monthly, and I pay less now than I did when I signed up for TiVo three years ago.

Most times that Tivos "die" - it's associated with a bad hard drive. Tivo hard drives are replaceable/upgradeable. He may want to buy a replacement drive and see if he can bring his Tivo back to life. Weaknees is a well known company that does tivo repairs and upgrades, there are also less expensive options.

I've had Tivos going back to 2001. I wouldn't want it any other way.

@akieran:

"rasion d'etre" That was beautiful! I had to look it up, but I already knew what it meant from your brilliant use/placement of it.

@Thorny:
I would not refer to them as "readers", more like ignorant dolts that think headlines are fully indicative of every detail an article might have to offer. Those who fail to grasp that headlines are more to grab attention & pull the reader into the article are, well quite frankly, the types that believe rush limbaugh & selfish sarah. And we really don't care about those types, now do we?

@aphex242: I have 3 Tivos, oldest one is 5, and I fortunately haven't had this problem either. Also, I have lifetime service on 2 of the Tivos and pay a reduced monthly charge for the 3rd. None have needed any repairs (fingers crossed!)

@missdona: +1.
I do it myself, but Weaknees is the bees for those who are not inclined to do so. They even sell DIY upgrade kits.

[www.tivocommunity.com] more info for the DIY route.

What has the OP done with the TiVo? I'm sure there are those who would buy it so it's not a total loss (you can transfer the lifetime on the same machine to someone else).

@H3ion: It's for the lifetime of the unit - not a person. So as long as your Tivo works, it's cool.

@BillyDee_CT: Don't let this sway you - Tivo is great, and most likely your Tivo won't break under warranty, so this is isn't an issue for most people (sucks though it does happen.... but not likely).

He bought a one time, lifetime service. They cannot decide to change the terms of that purchase after the fact, for something so materially different, that having known about the transfer fee at the time of purchase would have changed your mind.

I smell lawsuit.

@doctor_cos: Hubby's not so good with Linux, so we bought a retail drive 1.5TB drive and had it sent to "dvr_dude" on ebay, he put the software on the drive for $20+ $5 shipping. Total cost $145.00 for 230+hrs HD capacity. My husband put the drive in.

He did the instantcake method for an an old Tivo, but instantcake didn't support drives as large as 1.5TB, so we did the dvr_dude route.

@pgh9fan1:

This wouldn't work in TiVo's case, since the plan is plainly stated to be for the lifetime of the UNIT. Under warranty I can see the case for transferring at no charge. Out of warranty, if your unit meets the end of its life (stops working) you're SOL.

All our TiVos (4 series 3s) have lifetime purchased way back in the series 1 days (in 1999) and we couldn't be happier, even with the transfer fees from S1 to S2 to S3, we're still ahead of the game financially over what we would have paid monthly. If they break, it's almost always either the hard drive or the power supply, and that can be fixed by the user with a tiny bit of computer skills and a google search. Only a motherboard failure is the end of the road, and that's a rare occurance indeed. The OP needs to understand the concept of google and the benefits of fixing the problem without TiVo's involvement.

@silver-bolt: Yeah, but they probably will drop it after the bad press. Seems stupid to even try to get this past the internets.

TiVo does NOT charge the fee for under warranty tivo's, as this article states.

They do now charge the fee for old out of warranty TiVo replacements. (If you're TiVo fails and is out of warranty, they will sell you a discounted refurb. They used to transfer your service for free, they no longer do so.)

Tivo is great, I used to use one until i switched to Digital cable with my cable provider. Since then I've been using their DVR / cable box to record my shows. I really enjoyed the service Tivo provided, however when you can get a DVR / Cable box from a cable provider for $10 per month, and they will replace it with a new one should it break, it makes Tivo not worth it anymore.

The article doesn't say whether or not this effects people who already have lifetime plans.

I highly doubt it.

@twophrasebark:

Yes it does - reader Nate had lifetime service and wanted to transfer it as a result of a warranty repair. He had a lifetime plan, his unit broke, was fixed under warranty, and they now want him to pay $150.

@wrjohnston19283:
I don't think this is the case. In his message he states "Cost to fix and transfer lifetime service: $349." If it was under warranty, why would they charge to fix it? If it is true that they will charge $150 to transfer service even if the unit is under warranty, people may want to "burn-in" their Tivo's on a month to month plan for a few months before purchasing lifetime.

An alternative to a Tivo would be building or buying a media center/ home theater pc. No ridiculous monthly fee for the TV guide info that is available to the public for free and it will last years longer, plus offers tons more features and more options in storage. There are many, many articles available on building your own, if you search Google.

I keep my series one hooked up only to get a discount on my other 2 tivos. It broke so many times I'm afraid to use it. If the lifetime tivo doesn't connect with the server in a certain amount of time Tivo thinks its dead and ups the price of your other tivos.

@wrjohnston19283: Dont think it was under warranty. He stated " Cost to fix and transfer lifetime service: $349."

Lifetime service a bad deal? I don't think so! I've had my Series 2 since 2002 and it's still going strong. I've even upgraded it to 500 hours (never deletes anything!).

I said it before, I'll say it again - two words: Myth TV.

@H3ion: You raise a VERY valid point. Everyone should take the extra effort to verify what 'lifetime' means. A few years back I purchased a video card based on the nVidia chipset. I chose one manufacturer over the other because the box said 'lifetime warranty'. When I got home and opened the box, I found that their definition of 'lifetime' was the 'time during which this particular model was for sale in the retail channels'. Well, since nVidia was coming out with new chipsets every six months I considered this a losing proposition. I promptly returned the card and exchanged for the one with a '2 year warranty' since this was set in stone and not up to the whims of the manufacturer.

I did this transfer about 2 years ago when my original (40 hour) TiVo died after about 4 years. I was actually really thrilled to hear about this, because it was an option to avoid a monthly payment. I sent them my original TiVo and for $150, they sent me a refurbished 80-hour TiVo and continued the lifetime service. The unit they sent me has been working great. So for $150, I got a bigger TiVo and no monthly fees - I'm okay with that. Plus, not having to give the cable company any more money to rent their crappy DVR makes me happy.

@wrjohnston19283:

But... it says the plan went into effect April 2009. It doesn't say when he bought his Tivo.

Also... I just think... I'll wait till I hear this from Tivo and not Nate.

A couple clarifications from a TiVo tech.

Yes, the Product Lifetime Transfer fee does apply to previously-existing lifetime subscriptions.

The PLT fee is actually $199. The hardware replacement is the additional $149 (at least out of warranty), giving the total of $348.

The silver lining? Something that may not have been mentioned by the agent on the phone, and I'm not sure why: the PLT fee can only apply once in three years.

Worst case scenario: Your box breaks every three years and one day. The $149 hardware replacement is the same regardless of service plan. The $199 PLT fee is still less than a regular three year prepaid plan, and nowhere near as much as a monthly plan for three years.

Anything less than that and you've only got to worry about the hardware replacement, if that (the refurbished units still come with the same 90 days/1 year warranty).

@BillyDee_CT: I would think twice. If I had not gotten such a fantastic deal on a Tivo HD, and Brighthouse's DVR been so incredibly crummy, I would not have bothered.

This is simply more shenanigans from a company which has never found a real way to make money. I guess selling 'guide data' which is essentially free for $12.95 per month is not as profitable as it appears.

That, coupled with the annoying advertising on the menus, and essentially spyware on their boxes, and it gets to be not as rosy a picutre as it looks like at first flush.

Like I've said before, I hate the company and love the device.

The transfer fee is not new. I bought my Tivo in 2000 with lifetime service, and even back then, they told me that it was the life of my Tivo unit, not my lifetime. If it broke, I was out of luck. They've been offering a new Tivo with a $150 transfer fee since 2003 or 2004. (Before they had the transfer fee, there was no way to transfer your lifetime service at all. You just had to pay full price for a new one. So this is an improvement over the "old" plan.) They've always made it clear (at least to me) that if your Tivo breaks, you lose your lifetime service, unless you can fix it yourself.

I've put in a new hard drive myself and put in an ethernet connection, and I'm no computer expert. It's not that difficult. My lifetime service has lasted almost 9 years, so it's been a great deal for me - I highly recommend it. A great deal all around. (And in my opinion, the Tivo software works a lot better than the DVR offered by my cable company, which lacks a lot of the features of Tivo.)

Sirius (and possibly now XM too) has this too. Purchase a lifetime subscription, and should your receiver die or you just want to upgrade to a better one, you pay a fee to swap to the new unit. At first I thought this sounded like a great deal, but I like to have new things every so often and don't want to be stuck with an out of date receiver down the line. So far the 3-year subscriptions seems to be the best deal for me.

Make sure your TIVO is hooked up to an uniterruptable power supply (UPS).

@meltingcube:

You must have a cable company that has a clue. The DVR/Cable box I have is absolute garbage with an interface that looks like it was designed in the mid 80's. It's flaky, not intuitive, and just plain sucks. Motorola FTL!

This article and posting is misleading. It is only partially correct. The new TiVo policy is detailed in TivoHD FAQ #67: [www.avsforum.com]

"As of May 2009, TiVo has a new lifetime transfer policy for failed TiVos.

(a) If the TiVo dies between 0 and 90 days, there is no charge for a replacement and they will transfer lifetime service for free.

(b) If the TiVo dies between 90 days and one year, there is a $49 replacement fee and they will transfer lifetime service for free.

(c) If the TiVo dies after one year and you've had lifetime service for less than three years, there is a $149 replacement fee and they will transfer lifetime service for free.

(d) If the TiVo dies after one year and you've had lifetime service for more than three years, there is a $149 replacement fee plus a $199 fee to transfer lifetime service to the replacement TiVo.

If you want to avoid this, you have to "fix" the TiVo yourself by upgrading/replacing the original TiVo drive.

When you buy a lifetime subscription, it is tied to that specific model of TiVo. TiVo will not move a lifetime subscription over to a new model unless (a) you require a replacement within three years and (b) your model is no longer available from TiVo. The exception to that would be a special promotion; several times since the release of their HDTV DVR, TiVo offered a promotion that allowed Series1/Series2 owners to move lifetime over to the HDTV DVR for a $199, even when they'd already had lifetime for more than three years."

When a TiVo dies, it is almost always the result of drive failure. If you previously made a backup image of the TiVo software using WinMFS, you can restore that that to a new drive as per the instructions below. If you did not make a backup of your TiVo software, DVRUpgrade sells InstantCake for $19.99; InstantCake is a boot CD that will restore the TiVo software to a new drive (of your choice) up to 1.1TB in size. The lifetime subscription is tied to a ROM chip on the TiVo, so it is not affected by drive upgrades and replacements. [www.tivocommunity.com]

To reiterate, TiVo only charges the lifetime transfer fee if you've had lifetime for more than three years. If you add lifetime to a three year old Tivo, and it dies in 2 years and 11 months, then there is no charge to transfer lifetime to the $149 replacement."

One other important point not mentioned in the FAQ -- the $199 fee to transfer lifetime to a replacement DVR after three years does NOT reset the three-year lifetime guarantee. If you paid $199 to transfer lifetime from a Series2 to a TiVo Series3, you did not reset your three-year lifetime guarantee. Likewise, if your TiVo dies after three years, and you pay $199 to transfer lifetime to another unit, then you don't get free transfers for another three years after that. You only get free transfers to a replacement for the first three years after the initial purchase of lifetime for $299/$399.

I've been told conflicting information on the subject of whether you get free transfers for a replacement up to one year after you pay the $199.

ok, as an ex-tivo CSR, here's the lowdown:

Tivo has always had the OPTION of assessing this fee. It's in the TOS. However, yes they have only recently implemented it.

If the lifetime plan is more than 3 years old, there is a $150 transfer fee to move the lifetime to the replacement unit. This fee will only be assessed every three years if a replacment is needed. There is no way to not have this fee, no reps or supervisors can waive it.

The long and short of it is that Tivo makes no profit on a lifetime plan after 3 years, and those customers cost money. The lifetime plan is for the lifetime of that model Tivo, and I have seen customers that have had the same lifetime subscription for more than 8 years!

Now mind you, this 'lifetime transfer fee' is if you are having a defective Tivo replaced, NOT if you have just bought a newer Tivo, and want the Lifetime on the old unit moved over. Policy stated that you cannot move lifetime to another unit, but if you raise enough of a stink, a 'one time exception' can be made, at a supervisors discretion. They REALLY do mean one time though.

@loueloui: Yes some providers offer their guide data for free. Tribune Media does not which is the company that supplies Tivo and offers the best guide data in my experience. They stopped offering their guide data for free in 2007. Google the various companies and you will see complaints by Verizon Fios customers, TWC customers, Brighthouse customers, etc about missed recordings which are due to bad guide data which are provided by other providers.

@missdona: No need to know Linux. Use WinMFS next time. www.mfslive.org

If he can hook two Sata drives up to a Windows PC, he can copy and upgrade a Tivo Drive. The only time I needed to use the Linux version which they walk you through also was because the drive was already failing when I went to upgrade it.

@meltingcube:
Your company still charges for the DVR box?

@zombie_batch: Cool if you can show me where to build a Dual tuner cable card HTPC which only uses one M card for $500, I would love to see it. Last time I checked single tuner cable cards were $200 a piece new and each require their own M Card.

@humphrmi: three words...cable card tuners. Show me a setup that is equal to a Tivo both in price and features because I haven't seen it. When I was researching building a HTPC for recording encrypted qam channels or Tivo, Tivo was cheaper as soon as you throw cable cards into the mix.

@wvFrugan:

Here's another French term for you.

I bought my Tivo in 2001 and paid 250 for the lifetime service. In 2006 I upgraded to the HD Tivo in 2006 and they charged me $150 to transfer my lifetime service (there was a deal). Oops, they never charged me. So since 2001, baring the reasonable Tivo costs, I spent all of 250 for lifetime service. Now that is a deal!

But I would have been glad to pay the fee. Tivo kicks the ass of all other DVRs. I had cable's DVR for a short time before I got the HD Tivo and it BLEW.

@cknight: Do the same for the word "unlimited", which rarely means "without limit" these days.