New York Times Wishes It Had Not Published "Snotty" JC Penney Review
The NYT is now expressing regret over publishing Cintra Wilson's "Critical Shopper" review of JC Penney's new Manhattan store. The column was simultaneously hateful and boring, offering astute observations such as the fact that middle class people shop there and that the store carries clothes for the average-sized woman.
Among JC Penney's other perceived weaknesses: "obese mannequins" and the use of Helvetica Light in the logo.
From the NYT:
Bill Keller, the executive editor of The Times, was unhappy, too. The column, he said, "would make a fine exhibit for someone making the case that The Times has an arrogant streak." Keller said his mother was a Penney's shopper for much of her life, and she would have found the review "snotty." He told me that he wished it had not been published.
JC Penney wasn't thrilled either:
Darcie Brossart, vice president for communications at J. C. Penney, said, "We found the review very offensive to our customers." The average American woman, she said, wears a size 12 and weighs 150, and the company stocked the Manhattan store initially just the way it stocks its others in the metropolitan area. Smaller sizes sold out quickly, Brossart said, and the mix will be adjusted to meet demand.
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Comments:
What!?! you mean people in new york, especially in the newspaper/magazine business, are snotty? You have to be kidding.
Ms. Wilson should have thrown in some zingers about Bush or Republicans. Then the NYT would have defended her until the end of time.
So are they actually going to pretend that they are more concerned about upset READERS than upset ADVERTISERS? C'mon now, Times, at least own up to the reason you're really backtracking here.
And this comes from someone who worked my way through college at JCPenney and enjoyed it.
@hungryhomer: I had to do a couple of double takes, i thought it was a store mannequin at some chic fashion boutique.
Glad to see that the editor taking a stand. I don't like JCP and Sears myself but my parents clothed me for years there, and were very frugal. Treating the frugal middle class like trailer trash is uncalled for.
@humphrmi:
"Trailer trash" don't deserve to be treated like crap either. I love this sentiment: "Middle class people don't deserve to be treated like lower class people!"
Anyway, I happen to like JCPenney for some things. It's not an environment I terribly enjoy shopping in, but in some of their nicer stores have some cute women's business wear. Not exactly Fortune 500 CEO material, but good for what I need it for.
I hadn't seen the original article before, but the comments that the mannequins are "obese" seems particularly misplaced if the photo of the display of JC Penney's in Manhattan is accurate. In what world are those mannequins anything but quite thin?
This sort of thing is just really not appropriate for the NYT. Cintra Wilson is a talented writer, but her attitude and humor is clearly classist and should appear in the type of magazines that cater to a more select audience. This is mostly a failure on the part of the Times to exercise editorial prudence, though some of the blame has to go to Wilson for turning in a piece and not realizing that the audience for this particular assignment was far more diverse than that for her usual snark.
@humphrmi: Isn't it the editor's job to "edit" out articles like this? Seems more like damage control than the editor taking a stand.
The truth is whether you like it or not there are people of all sizes in this world, and yes there are people other than a size 2 that need to buy clothing.
I still don't understand it, America is supposedly getting fatter than ever, but apparently clothing options for Women size 14 and up are decreasing. Seems to me that clothing stores could potentially benefit from adding larger sizes instead of adding more smaller sizes, then you know, they might actually sell something instead of constantly complaining about dwindling sales. Believe me when I walk the malls not everyone walking in the mall is a size 2, in fact those women under size 6 are a very small portion of the people walking the mall for here at least.
This seems to be a largely untapped market, much like the fact everyone I know has a Womens size 10-12 shoe yet every time I go shopping all the large sizes are gone sending the women right out of the shoe department since the size they need is gone to the next store only to have more of the same thing happen.
It seems to me that when I go shopping all the small sizes are still on the rack and the XL's and size 14-16's are gone. Racks of S and M remain. Or perhaps I just live in an area with a larger than average population but I live in upstate NY and given the statistics there are places that are a lot fatter than where I live.
@aguacarbonica: Actually, we were more poor than middle class when I was a kid, in fact I lived in a trailer until I was a freshman in High School and Penney's was kind of a step up for us. But I don't mean "poor" when I say trailer trash. Even amongst trailer dwellers, the "trash" were people who's attitude and way of living went beyond being poor.
@HiPwr: C'mon, man...that was pretty pathetic. Yeah, we all get it, the media is liberally biased. But that was a huge reach. I totally agree, by the way, but MostlyHarmless is right.
@cash_da_pibble: That's because she's a CLASSY blowup doll that doesn't shop at the likes of JC Penney.
one of the reassons for fewer clothing choices in larger sizes, as compared to smaller sizes, is 'vanity sizing'. in the world of vanity sizing, i have the same measurements as 15 years ago, but i wear two sizes smaller (used to shop plus-size, now i can get stuff at old navy). therefore, people are getting bigger, but their sizes are not.
@hungryhomer: thanks for the link. i'm still trying to decide if her lips are real or if she's wearing those wax candy lips
@HogwartsAlum: yeah when i was house shopping there was one i actually considered until i realized the way my credit union structures first time home buyers loans doesn't allow for structures that aren't built on site.
which is too bad because that one had a fireplace and my current house doesn't.
@HogwartsAlum: Same here. My parents said we'd never live in a trailer. But a trailer would have been a step up from some of our dwellings.
As for the substance of this article, I don't read the NYT, and I don't shop at JCP. I don't have anything against JCP, but they don't market to someone like me who doesn't need much in the way of clothing and household appliances. I consider Kohls and JCP to be very similar, and it's rare that I set foot in either store.
@Outrun1986: Vanity sizing and really lousy demographic data these stores use.
They buy these really vague demographic descriptions and use those to decide what to carry in that store.
I read the industry data on where I currently live. According to that the only people that live here are either hunting & NASCAR fanatics, outdoors enthusiasts, or religious fundamentalist militia members. Yet there is a pretty significant demographic in the area that are none of those things and not even close.
@hungryhomer: Ugh. Someone needs to tell her that if she keeps making that face, it will stick that way.
@MostlyHarmless: One of these days I'm going to compile a list of the lamest places to interject your political philosophies on people that don't give a rodent's backside.
@MinorAnnoyance: Oops. Sorry MostlyHarmless... that was for HiPwr's little political foray up there.
I'm actually a small size, and JCPenney is one of the places where I know I can always find clothes, especially affordable clothes for work. That fashion writer is an idiot.
Sears, on the other hand, has changed their "Small" to a 4/6 and the one near me doesn't carry extra small (if it exists). Ugh.
Cintra Wilson is hilarious forever. Once in an interview she described the color of George Hamilton's tan (and that of other celebs into fake-bake) as "Spanish pumpernickel."
@VotaIdiota: LOL, my wife saw that photo open and asked why i was looking at photos of drag queens... I'm glad we're not the only ones who thought she looked a bit mannish.
@canuck: Its interesting because vanity sizing isn't always the case depending on where you shop. Clothing sizes are just all over the place. I just gave a pair of size 20 jeans that I picked up second hand to my mom who is a size 10-12 and they fit her. You have to really eyeball the garment to see if it will fit or not instead of looking at the numbers. Its possible to get really good at it too where you can tell if something will fit or not.
Not everything that is plus sized is truly plus sized in the size of the garment but the numbers may be plus sized. On the other side of the spectrum its very possible to find a size 20 that is very, very large and much larger than your average size 20.
It doesn't really seem that the largest sizes sell out here (aka the 30-32 that avenue carries) but there does seem to be a large population in the 14-20 size range since those sizes are always gone from the racks here.
If there is anything I wish they would fix its the shoes, we need more size 10's than just one pair per shipment. But when it comes down to shoes its like you literately cannot find anything in your size because its always gone. DSW is very notorious for stocking only sizes 6-8 (which also leaves out women with a size 5 foot), you can go through the whole store and only find a couple size 10's left. Its starting to get like a dogfight in the shoe department for size 10s. My mom wears a size 10, so does my entire family and even my 12 year old cousin who has been a 10 for at least a year now. Mind you I wear something like an 11-12 so my choices are non-existant so I have just gone to wearing mens sneakers (in which I also wear a mens 11 in some sneakers). It would be nice to be able to walk in a store other than payless and be able to get a pair of shoes. There is always Zappos but shoes are something that I prefer to try on even though I know they have excellent service.
@canuck: Vanity sizing really sucks for people who happen to be on the smallest end of the sizing scale. I used to like shopping Old Navy because they had things that would fit me but now about 2/3 of the XS items I pick out just really don't fit because they're too big. I haven't tried for about a year but it's about time for me to buy more clothes so I'm not sure what I will find.
@hungryhomer: Gods and demons that's scary! Not just a bit mannish as many others have commented, but SICKLY pale. I know it's dark down in those urban canyons in NYC, but someone needs to tell the girl they have tanning beds at that pricey spa where she does pilates and gets her coffee enemas.
LOL
When did so many people start caring about fashion so much? Of course upper-class women are going to be interested in it, and everyone else wants to look their best whenever possible... but when did we reach the point where it's publicly acceptable to make fun of people for where they shop?
I'm a fashion-challenged guy and really don't give a crap about it much. If it fits, is comfortable, and doesn't make me look like a clown... then why does it matter what brand it is or where I bought it? Just out of curiosity, where am I "supposed to" shop?
@ChuckECheese: It makes some twisted sense that a ghost-colored harpy would want to launch barbs about the color of other people's tans.
@Outrun1986: "I just gave a pair of size 20 jeans that I picked up second hand to my mom who is a size 10-12 and they fit her. "
Which makes me want to cry -- I currently wear as small as an 8, as big as an 18, with my changing post-preggers body, which is stressful enough because my shape redistributed and I'm shrinking/growing/shrinking/ growing/OHMYGODWHYWON'TMYBOOBSFITINANYTHING .... so when I go to a store with a freaking "6 items only" limit, that means basically ONE item in sizes 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, and 18 to try to figure out WHAT THE HELL SIZE I WEAR. (And frankly, since I'm a different size every damn week, stupid hormones, I'm not buying anything that costs actual money, so they're all going to be 6-item-limit places.)
@Outrun1986: I think retailers believe that us fat people don't really have any money to buy pretty clothes with after we finish shopping for cheesecakes and bacon.
@catastrophegirl: Yeah you would have had a fireplace, but you would have also had a home that depreciated like a car. Those things look shiny and nice until you realize that everything is of the cheapest quality and five years down the road you are replacing fixtures left and right. My sis bought one and it was one of the better more expensive brands of trailers and it was pure crap after a few years.
@hungryhomer: I think she's far more hungry than you are, homer. That look is 2 steps beyond tongue out, eyes rolled back and moaning.
I read the article. It was hilarious and accurate. Why the big fuss? Fatties can't take a joke?
@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): HAHA! I feel your pain. My solution: bring a "runner", husband, friend, kids, surprised passerby, whatever. Someone who will exchange for different sizes on the rack and deliver them to you at the dressing room. Once I'm trying things on, I'm not getting fully redressed until I'm ready to leave.
If there's any women at Gitmo, they should force them to shop for a decent bathing suit, at a mall with multiple anchor stores, without a runner. (where the suits are all meant to fit 12-year olds with no boobs) They'll fall to their knees in screaming hysteria and spill all their secrets after that kind of horrible torture. I think it's against Geneva, though.
Well, that's what you get when you a hire a fashion critic that looks like a heroin-addicted Joan Cusack impersonator.
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