"Cash 4 Clunkers" Will Reach Vanishing Point Sometime In September
If you're planning on taking advantage of the Cash 4 Clunkers program you'd better do it sooner rather than later, says Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. The program is running out of money and the administration says that in the next two days they will outline a plan to gracefully wind it down.
Mr. LaHood says that all vouchers will be paid. "They're going to get their money," he said. When asked if the program will continue until its September 18th, his previous estimate, he declined to answer.
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Comments:
Why write a letter? You pushed all the buttons first and you did so after you signed the paper work. I don't blame him one bit for just ignoring you.
@Blueskylaw: I believe by receiving the "rebate" for the program you forfeit the scrap value of your vehicle (the dealer get's it).
At the same time you'd probably be in the red (owe them money) on that deal if you keep pressing because it probably costs more than 50 bucks for the processing and transportation of your car to scrap it.
How can a program be almost out of money when NONE OF THE DEALERS HAVE BEEN PAID!!??!!
@Blueskylaw: I've been spending most of my hours at work processing these car deals. While the law states that we have to disclose the scrap value of your vehicle to you, nowhere does it state what is to become OF that money. That being said, there has obviously been a HUGE influx of vehicles to most scrap yards. We were told by the scrap yard we've been using that they'll give us $100 each, regardless of condition. As such, we've been crediting all clunker customers $50 extra for their trade, after deducting the $50 fee we're allowed to take.
Not sure if that makes you feel any better, but the dealership probably isn't getting much out of you anyway...
@jayphat: I wouldn't say NONE have been paid; the dealership I work at has been paid (as in the money's actually in our account)for nine of our deals. Unfortunately there are only 250 or so people currently processing these claims, and I can only imagine how long it takes to process ONE claim considering that the packet I have that lists error codes and all the things they have to check is three pages long, and I've received error codes that aren't even on their list.
I'm sure, however, that they can pull reports from the database we submit to that say "oh, there are X number of $4500 claims and Y $3500 claims, so that means we've got approximately $Z alloted."
@nstonep: No, you are entitled to both. You get the rebate from the Fed as well as the scrap value of the vehicle, which the dealer is required to tell you the value of BEFORE you sign the paperwork.
@metsarethe...: Meanwhile, the dealership is closing its doors because it has gone bancrupt from giving away all its capital.
@jayphat:
Exactly, the paperwork signed was just their standard sales form with all the numbers that you negotiated, it has nothing to do with the scrap value. He even said he wouldn't give it to me because he gave me a discount on the car??
If someone from SUBARU corporate is reading this, please contact me.
So why did you not just walk away at that point in time? Correct me if I am wrong but you did take home the new car which means you signed all the proper paper work.
Did you sign the final papers? Simple question.
@nstonep:
It doesn't cost more than $50 to process the paperwork. The sales form itself took him all of 2 minutes to fill in and print out.
Also, I am only entitled to the scrap value of the car (minus $50), but the junk yard gets to strip the car for parts (except for motor and transmission). I paid over $100 for a wiper arm last year, the car had at least $70 worth of premium fuel in it and most of the trim is stainless steel so the junk yard will indeed make a handsome profit off that car.
@jayphat: I was being sarcastic with my comment, I actually agree with you. I feel like it has been a big risk for dealers to take part in this program and the government hasn't been sufficiently clear with how to handle the program.
The paperwork signed only dealt with the purchase of the car. The price was negotiated and the paperwork signed.
The actual scrap value is determined by the junk yard once they get the car and scrap it. Then I am supposed to receive a check for it at a later date. This is not something that is in the paperwork for buying the car at the present moment because the actual value is unknown.
Indeed, there is no paperwork whatsoever for scrap because you are entitled by law to receive the full scrap value minus $50 once the actual value is determined at a later point in time so the question of "Did I sign the final paper" is moot.
As to the question of why I did not just walk away?
Simple, I wanted the car and I know when to fight my battle and when to walk away and fight another day.
I am entitled to the scrap value, the Business Manager was being an ***hole, I bought the car and now I will take my argument up at a higher level. This is how life works.
Also, they are counting on the fact that many people won't know about being entitled to the scrap value because all you hear advertised on the car dealer commercials is GET $3500 or $4500 off your new car. If they advertised that you get the scrap also, logic would dictate that they would get even more buyers because the deal would be even sweeter. They don't advertise it for the precise fact that will try and screw you out of money entitled to you.
Simple Question: If you had bought a new car with a traded in clunker and didn't know about the scrap value deal and one month later you found out that the dealer took the $400 (made up number) that legally should have been turned over to you, would you be pissed and wouldn't you fight to get it back?
Meanwhile, the competence has long since reached the vanishing point.
Well I think you are the asshole. I hope they tell you to chase a cat off a tall building.
@akiri:
Call up the help number listed on the Government web site, then after being on hold for over half an hour you will get a person on the horn who will tell you that the Government doesn't want the scrap value (she actually laughed and said we are giving you money to buy a car, why would we want the scrap money)and that the customer is entitled to the full scrap value minus a maximum of $50 for dealer processing.
I am one of those people that gets pissed off when someone tries to screw them and I will spend way more time and money to get what is owed me than is economically logical.
Whos getting screwed? The people with clunkers that had unrealistic EPA fuel economy ratings and are now getting a little over 13 mpg. The car was rated at 18 mpg and is not eligible for the clunker program. The EPA revised downward the ratings but didnt make it retroactive.
Ive been hearing an ad on radio to trade your clunker for an RV. I dont see how that is possible. Any ideas?
Wait on hold for half an hour? That's if you're lucky. I called them and didn't get a call for three days.
Also, regarding that $50 to handle the paperwork - yeah, it may have taken the sales guy 2 minutes to fill out the Summary of Sale/Lease Agreement that you signed, but it took someone in the business office at least an hour to sort through all the paperwork and make sure it was all there, then a few hours more to chase after salespeople to GET the rest of the paperwork. Let's not forget the interest we're losing by not having the money in the bank at the time of sale.
If you wanted the real scrap value of your car, maybe you should've parted it out. The only stipulation was that it ran. There's no conditions about doors, wiper arms, or other non-essential parts.
I'm a bit perturbed, since my car is in fact a clunker and qualifies for the program, but I do not have the monthly income to pay the additional payments on a new car.
There's no way a dealership is going to let me leave without paying a dime or owing them money in the near future.
@Ronster: You're eligible if your clunker gets 18MPG. 19+ MPG is the no-go zone. And they did KIND of make it retroactive; if you made a car deal prior to the date things changed and your car's rating went up, they would still issue you the credit.
@jayphat: So... You think it'd be genius-level smart to trust car dealers with that much money? On their word? As gentlemen?!
Really?!
Wow, PT Barnum was right.
BTW, I'm glad they're actually, y'know, requiring they prove they're eligible. Accountability is a good thing, isn't it?
@Moosenogger: What kind of car are you looking for and how much money do you have in savings? If it's something small, like a Nissan Sentra, you could definitely get one for less than $10k and you could have payments for as low as $99. With the $4,500 or so they give you for your car, it would help to trade it in and get something new, and may help you afford it with whatever savings you have. I hate sounding like a car commercial, but I've been barraged with these numbers for the last four months so I know everyone's advertised APR and such. You could probably get 0% or 1% APR.
Good. I'm getting tired of all the ads! I'm ready for a new, fresh wave of equally-annoying dealership commercials.
@NotYou007: Why because he's trying to abide by the terms of the program? Even if he's wrong, he's just trying to get what's due.
@Ronster: I completed a clunker deal with a 1991 Plymouth Grand Voyager minivan (3.3L, 18mpg). It all went through.
19 and up is no-go.
Yet another "well run" government program. Boy, I can't wait until they replace my "evil" health insurance company.
I've encountered the same dumb looks and ignorant comments in regards to the scarp value of the vehicle as I'm sure you have. The only problem is, I have NO IDEA what the scrap value of the vehicle was, but I assumed it would be around $75-200 so I figured I should have gotten $25 or more back, but I could be way off base. The problem is, nobody was able to answer my questions at all.
I can envision some sort of backlash in the future from all the people not getting the scrap value.
@Blueskylaw: How much are you expecting to get?
Your 2010 Subaru is probably in the range of $25K to $35K... is an extra $25 or even an extra $100 going to make a difference in your purchase price? Especially when you agreed to the price already and signed the forms?
You traded in a car which was in great condition and could have been sold to someone else... but instead it is going to an untimely end.
You made a good choice with the Subaru though and their 2010 lineup looks nice with slight model refreshes for some of the vehicles. AWD + Turbo = fun to drive.
Yeah, can't wait until they replace my health insurance. I'm sure this will be done in a much more "professional" manner. All I got to say is, for better or worse, I voted for McCain/Palin. Ha ha suckers!!
@MostlyHarmless: Only a fool would write that with out the quotes. Maybe I should have ended the comment with '</sarcasm>'.
@t-r0y
@Psychosocial
Troll, and...Troll.
Nobody's replacing your healthcare. Take your BS arguments to a board with less intelligent people, and to a post topic it belongs on.
Oh, and my HMO...Evil without the quotes.
I wish my 99 Mercury Cougar qualified. The car won't pass the smog check without spending ALOT of money (not worth fixing) but yet it is not a clunker in the eyes of the government. Sheesh.
@Blueskylaw: Wait, after you sign the papers, THEN you start asking odd questions, and THEN you get upset that the guy kind of blows you off?
Allow me to borrow a line from Barney Frank when I ask "On what planet do you spend most of your time?"
@t-r0y: If by "well run", you mean incredibly popular and successful in accomplishing its goals, then I agree.
@Trai_Dep: No, man, no one is saying that. They're saying that once the dealers have filled in all the paperwork according to the Government's rules, there's no excuse for the government to not pay out that claim when the money is already available.
FTA: "The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members have left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates. They're also worried about getting repaid.
...
Dealers pay the rebates out of pocket, then must wait to be reimbursed by the government. But administrative snags and heavy paperwork have created a backlog of unpaid claims.
Schienberg said the group's dealers have been repaid for only about 2 percent of the clunkers deals they've made so far.
...
...it's in the hands of this enormous bureaucracy and regulatory agency," he added. "If they don't get out of their own way, this program is going to be a huge failure.""
What we're saying is that you can always safely bet on the ability of the federal government to screw anything up with red tape. The government is essentially forcing these businesses to give 0% interest loans to incoming customers, and then promising to pay them back (still no interest) at a later date but not really following through on that promise. So the business has no capital to pay workers, or purchase new cars to sell, or grow the business, because they're waiting to be paid back on a program they were forced to do anyway.
Seriously, think about it some before you spout off your typical anti-corporate message.
@TheFlamingoKing: I'd be okay with rushing the car dealer forms for refunds without due diligence if and only if, when it turns out that a car dealer made an error in their lot's favor, there was a mandatory minimum jail term of five years, no parole or early release, for both any employee whose signature was on the form AND the owners of the dealership. Per offense.
If they're so squeaky-clean trustworthy, no worries, right?
@LupusGray: @BrAff: Neither of you understand what's going on here.
Everyone taking advantage of the CARS program is entitled to the entire scrap value [minus $50 for administrative purposes] in addition to their $3500-4500 rebate.
Taken from CARS.gov:
"Consumers should expect the dealers to provide their best estimate of the scrap value for their eligible trade-in vehicle. Dealers are allowed to deduct $50 from this value for their administrative costs."
"The program requires the scrapping of your eligible trade-in vehicle and that the dealer disclose to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in. The scrap value, minus $50 the dealer keeps for administrative fees, will be in addition to the rebate, and not in place of the rebate."
While the transaction has already taken place, it may be difficult to change. This, however, is no excuse for a manager to act belligerently toward a customer.
@Blueskylaw: The rebate going to the dealership will, without a doubt, be containing the scrap value of the trade-in. There's no harm in contacting someone higher on the business foodchain to see if you can't get the scrap value that you're entitled to - which could be up to $100.
Um, its called a bargaining tactic. If they dont think you know about the scrap value then you might be able to drive a harder bargain on the new car. After the paperwork is signed then you tell them I still want my scrap value, thats when they usually get the deer in the headlights kind of look.
This is the same reason that you tell them you dont have a trade in when they ask. You negotiate your best deal then tell them you have a trade in.
Seeing that the reasons I gave make perfect sense, and that you are now probably scratching your head while saying GOLLY GEE, why didn't I think of that, your Barney Frank line does not apply to me (at least not for this post.)
What I want from my local SUBARU dealer is the scrap value of my traded in "clunker".
I purchased a new 2010 model and used a 1990 300SE Benz as a trade in (RIP Old Gray Lady, you were in beautiful condition but expensive to keep up). After the paperwork was signed, I asked about my scrap value and the Business Manager just kind of looked at me and said he didn't know what I was talking about and had never heard anything about scrap value. Then a few minutes later (after conferring with someone) he said all the cars that had already been traded in were worth exactly $50 in scrap value, which is exactly what the dealership is entitled to from the scrap value as a processing fee, thereby implying that the fee will negate the value of the scrap. Then he conferred with someone else and said to me it's the end of discussions and he won't talk to me anymore about it.
I then asked him what the value of my trade in was (he is required by law to give me an estimate of value) and he told me if I wanted to know that I should call up the junk yard myself.
This is how a Business Manager from SUBARU treated a family member buying their third SUBARU.
I believe a letter to corporate headquarters is in
order. What do you think?