Adobe Takes Four Months And Counting To Process Refund
Jeff bought a copy of Adobe Creative Suite 4 back in May during a sale promising a $200 discount. The final checkout price didn't reflect the discount, but he double-checked the terms and conditions and confirmed that he was eligible. Adobe agreed, and has repeatedly promised to issue a refund. Jeff has been waiting for the check for almost four months, and he's not alone. Another customer has been waiting on a similar refund for almost a year!
Jeff writes:
For nearly four months, I've been having an ongoing struggle to get a $200 dollar refund for an overcharge from Adobe. A quick search online reveals that I'm not alone.
I have a small video production company, and I purchased a CS4 Production Studio upgrade on the last day of a sale. It was after Support hours but well before midnight. The Website didn't reflect the sale price (a $200 difference), but I purchased it figuring I could get a refund with no problem. That proved to be a big mistake.
After 2 or 3 calls of generally clueless reps with unbelievably poor English language skills, they recognized the over-charge and approved to the refund. That was at the beginning of May! By mid July, after many more phone calls in which the refund was promised within the next business cycle, I finally got fed up and asked for a full refund. I faxed the Letter of Destruction as requested, and as of now, that refund hasn't even been processed yet.
I am so incredibly frustrated, all I wanted was to pay the sale price as advertised. The Adobe software itself is great, and I really didn't want to relinquish my nice legal copies, but this has been among the worst customer service I've ever experienced. From what I've read elsewhere, this seems to be a systemic problem with Adobe. I am normally a firm believer in paying for the hard work that goes into quality software development, but as it stands right now I will never BUY another Adobe product again.
Another customer has a similar complaint:
We're currently involved in an ongoing 8 month hassle with Adobe over a simple refund. We have been promised a check three different times, all of which required us to wait about 2 months for our check to appear. This says nothing of the literal hours we have spent on hold waiting to get a person to "resolve" this.
Each time we have been asked for a different bit of info, and we have complied with each request sending it email, fax, and postal service. They will not contact you if something is missing — they just wait for you to call them after another 2 months has gone past adding another two mos. of interest charges to pay your credit card folks. Now they want a piece of paper we were never sent as a requirement to give us our money back.
Ideally Adobe would pony up the promised refund. Depending on your credit card company, you may still be able to file a chargeback. If you can't, skip past Adobe's outsourced customer service and deal directly with their corporate office. Load up an Executive Email Carpet Bomb using the contact information from this post.
Adobe [Customer Service Scoreboard]
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Comments:
Take them to small claims court, sue for $2500 (maximum), win default judgement when they don't show up, then have the sheriff seize 3 or 4 copies of Photoshop to satisfy the judgement. :P
Just the evil mind in me!
Interesting emphasis where he says he'll "never BUY another Adobe product again". Does that mean the next app will be pirated?
This reminds me of all my nightmare experiences with Sprint's awful rebate department. They denied legit rebates left, right and center, then dragged their heels in getting the checks out. Often times claims had to be submitted THREE times before they were processed correctly.
It's stories like this that make me leery of rebates and rebate type offers in general.
@BathroomDuck:
"I really didn't want to relinquish my nice legal copies"
Yes, that absolutely means his next copies will be pirated.
@BathroomDuck: I sort of hope so. If I'm remembering right, this isn't the first time we've seen an article about Adobe's policies standing in the way of legal purchase.
I'm a bit surprised this article was published as written:
"I really didn't want to relinquish my nice legal copies,"
and
"I will never BUY another Adobe product again."
Yet Jeff also claims to be a 'firm believer in paying for the hard work that goes into quality software development" ? Sounds to me like he more-so has a conscious that is starting to catch up with him.
Either way Jeff, pirating software is not a "right" that corrects the "wrong" of either overcharging for software or providing poor customer service. Writing to The Consumerist and refusing to buy, use, or support the software would be "right" actions. Of course, in that case your video production business may suffer since, well, Adobe rocks and you know it.
@katstermonster: So two stories about bad experiences justifies stealing hundreds of dollars worth of software?
@DaveDidNotPay: Welcome to the new Consumerist II, where we blame the victim for things s/he didn't do. We just make stuff up, and you, the OP, are guilty, guilty, guilty until prov... nah, you're just guilty.
I don't know much about the law here, but wouldn't it be a huge risk to use pirated software for one's business? The average Joe gets caught and they pay a fine, but wouldn't a business owner also owe for each product/service sold that utilized the stolen software? Seems like a smart way to screw yourself over.
@dragonfire81:
I've received more than four Sprint rebates over the past two years (I have a lot of lines on my account) with no problems whatsoever.
In fact, Sprint even sends me an e-mail with a link that allows me to track the progress of my rebate(s). I've never heard of a problem with Sprint rebates before. I thought that was something they actually did right.
When are businesses going to stop outsourcing customer service to companies that are unable to provide it? Don't they realise it does them more harm than good?
@katstermonster: If there's one thing I've learned from Consumerist, it's that buying anything from adobe is useless because they don't appear to have any idea how to support their own products. Or, you know, license them right.
Adobe makes great products that fit the needs of several users and businesses. Their biggest negatives are 1) Their terrible customer Support, and 2) Their insane Anti-piracy tools that are ineffective and do nothing but penalize people who have legally purchased the software.
The cost of their products could be lower, but if they could increase the quality of their customer service and drop their insane copy protection (or make it more effective), most professionals would pay nearly any price for their products.
@BathroomDuck: Do you really ever BUY software? According to the eula, aren't you basically leasing it anyhow?
@supercereal: For the OP, maybe. I mean, how hard should it be to pay for something? The correct amount, that is. If a customer who's basically drenched in a company's urine decides to pirate that company's software, well, I understand. Not sayin it's right, just... I understand.
@Conrad: Thanks, but I'd probably take you more seriously if 99% of your posts weren't regarding sex toys and first-timer videos on Fleshbot...
@supercereal: I'm not condoning it...simply pointing out that it generally leads to far less trouble with, well, licensing.
@DaveDidNotPay: So what should be the recourse for individuals who purchase software legally and want to abide by their EULA's and are faced with abusive behavior by companies for doing so?
No, nothing short of starvation justifies shoplifting or burglary.
Oh, you meant pirating. Say what you mean, mean what you say.
Small-claims court. Ask for costs.
@AgitatedDot: Then that's not consumer activism...it's just a childish sense of entitlement. If something is overpriced, you don't buy it and deal with that fact.
@mythago: That would be a last ditch effort to get the refund. Talking to the credit card company about a chargeback or sending out a couple EECB's first. Court is more time consuming, and they don't reimburse you for time taken off of work.
@mythago: The EULA says fuck your right to participating in a class-action lawsuit, and suing for more than 50 dollars, even if the software rapes your harddrive with viruses...
Of course, I'm paraphrasing.
@supercereal: No, but actual theft of his money by adobe justifies his copyright infringement of their product.
@silver-bolt: In your crazy mixed up world, maybe. In the real world, that doesn't usually fly with the authorities.
@supercereal: Yup, especially if you have a narc among your employees. The weakest link is almost always an insider in most situations after all.
Although I do suppose it is possible, when Adobe insists upon being a pain in the arse about activations (I think the Consumerist once reported a customer having such an issue. e.g.: You have a legit case of hardware changes and otherwise adhere to the spirit of the License Agreement, but Adobe says SOL), you can use a legally purchased license key to install, but use a crack to get past the activation step.
Frankly, I view Adobe as a monopoly (at least in the non-technical software imaging industry) and there is no doubt that it is the sole reason behind the consistently poor customer service - where else is the customer going to go if they're pissed off? There is simply no reasonable competition beyond the relatively basic levels anyway.
@DaveDidNotPay: Let's not attribute motives about the OP's "conscious" or otherwise slam the OP. The issue raised in the OP is Adobe's customer service, and comments towards the OP should be -- at minimum -- constructive. This kind of post isn't helpful.
The government just needs to have rebates stopped and make sure companies give us the discount NOW instead of making us go through the hassle of sending something in only to not get your money back.
(Yes, I know why they exist...because most people are too lazy to send in and wait for their money.)
There are far too many people getting ripped off or having their money/forms mishandled in such a manner that it makes more hassle than it should.
And what recourse do we have?
Bye.
@silver-bolt: I was under the impression that the EULA does not hold up in court as legaly binding, because it is only made available to the consumer AFTER they purchase the product...soprt of like buying a car, and then after driving it off the lot you open the glove compartment to find a statement that tells you you are not allowed to sue the company if the airbag detonates for no reason.
Also as far as pirating things, when You pay full legal price for something, and then the company screws with you, i don't see any problem in pirating the thing you already paid for in order to get a working copy of it, especially when the company is literally stealing money from the OP via the rebate.
In the real world, when you take money for a product/service and then refuse to provide said product/service, you go to prison. Or at least experience the wrath of the courtroom.
Lord only knows why nobody is suing Adobe. Oh wait, it's because they're big and will crush you.
@Consumerist-Moderator-Roz: Reminding the OP that his intended course of action is **illegal** is constructive.
I am the OP. I thank the Consumerist for publishing the whole letter as is, and I actually really do appreciate the replies that point out pirating software is illegal.
I have a number of friends who work in the software business, and I occasionally produce paid content as well. Condoning ripping off a big company is really just putting people like us out of work too in the long run.
In terms of a number of their applications, Adobe has a virtual monopoly, but hiding behind market dominance and copyright law isn't enough to sustain a successful software/media business. Both a quaility product AND good customer support is essential.
I deliberately phrased the message to point out that if they think they don't have any competition, they do. We all do, its called file sharing.
Any company that effectively rips off it customers by either deliberate policy or just through the de facto negligence of hiring the lowest bidder, unregulated, overseas support center is creating bigger problems for all of us in the media business in the long run by driving potential customers to other (illegal) options.
Why are people OK with waiting 2 months or 1 month or anything more than a few hours to get a refund? If a company says "please wait 2 months while we process your refund", the next call you make is to your credit card company to begin the chargeback process.
Adobe is particularly challenged with respect to refunds. I bought PSCS4 upgrade from Adobe. I found it cheaper later that day and tried to cancel. Adobe told me that I needed to wait until I received the item and then call them back with the serial number. I did so. They then directed me to download and fax them a "Letter of Destruction" which I promptly did. Adobe then ignored all communications for two months. Phone service techs would tell me that I would receive my refund withing 48 hours. Forty-Eight hours later and the next phone service tech would tell me they hadn't received my LoD. I finally began calling Adobe Corporate, complaining online and tweeting about my experiences. Eventually, an Adobe rep from Ottowa sent me an email (I had provided case numbers in all my tweets and posts.) and was able to issue a refund in a speedy (for Adobe) ten days. Moral of the story. . .never, NEVER, EVER
I've had the best success in getting a response from Adobe by going through the local user group manager. Adobe can be a pain to deal with. I don't understand how they can claim "it's all about the experience" and then provide us with such a consistently awful customer experience.
Adobe customer support is HORRIBLE. I've had to work with them from an enterprise standpoint.
They don't seem to understand that not everyone is in procurement and that not every employee has the PO, or shipping address, or person that ordered. If a regular John Doe inside a corporation calls for support or a question, you're pretty much screwed.
All of this doesn't take into the fact that their support center alone is terrible and they are not helpful at all. I had to argue with a rep for almost a hour on a policy about support (I had an installation issue, and they wanted to charge me. There was a specific policy ON A SITE HE GAVE ME TO REFERENCE that installation support was free and no charge was necessary).