Kindle Deletions: Amazon Ate Student's Homework
I was never much for writing in books in school, though I did use Post-Its frequently. Which is a precursor to leaving digital notes in a Kindle edition of the book. A Michigan high school student is one of the parties in a class action suit against Amazon because in deleting the unauthorized MobileReference edition of 1984, the company effectively ate his homework.
Gawronski told The Associated Press he was assigned "1984" for an advanced placement course in which students must turn in "reflections" on each 100 pages of text when they return from summer break, then take a test. He was a quarter to halfway through the book when it disappeared from his Kindle.
His notes on the book were "rendered useless because they no longer referenced the relevant parts of the book," according to the lawsuit.
The notes now apply to an edition of the book to which nobody has access. Another Kindle owner, an adult in Milpitas, Calif., is also a party. Chicago attorney Jay Edelson filed the lawsuit.
Amazon sued over Kindle deletion of Orwell books [AP] (Thanks, Bryan!)
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Comments:
@linkura: That's not the issue - the issue is deleting content you already purchased. Even though Amazon's justification made some sense, they decided to do this without any warning. With some notice, at least users like this student could have gotten their notes off. Plus, he did read close to 100 pages. If you factor in tweeting about each one, that could take months.
Maybe this will wake some people up and make them realize that they don't truly own what they buy.
DRM and closed systems are bad for consumers.
I can understand where this person is coming from. I wouldn't sue over it though, but I would expect a replacement hard cover book to be overnighted to me for the inconvenience.
Did each page of the book need a 'reflection' or was there supposed to be a 'reflection' for every 100 pages? If it's the latter, how pages are in the book that it wouldn't be possible to rewrite his reflections. OTOH, if it's for every page, well, at least he has a better excuse than the dog ate his homework. But, then again, I would suggest he buy a paper copy of the book and get cracking on starting again with the per page reflections.
BTW, my comment in no way should be taken to mean that I think his suit shouldn't continue. I just think that since the work is for an AP class, he still needs to get the work done. My guess is that whatever college he's applying to will want to see all the work.
Will the lawsuit have a leg to stand on considering that all payments for the book have been returned by amazon? Especially since the lawsuit is towards amazon rather than the company that illegally sold the book... that is unless i read wrong...
@linkura: Totally! What was that kid thinking?!? He's acting like he shouldn't expect his Kindle to delete his books for no apparent reason! Let's find that kid, buy him a kitten and step on it.
@linkura: How would you like someone from Amazon to run up to you and grab your book out of your hand because they were illegally printed. This is the same issue. This isn't just about the notes. It's about technology companies doing whatever they want to customer's property.
The main thing I hate about the kindle (and digital downloads in general) is that I love lending books to people. If I like a book, I like to let others get the same enjoyment that I did. I also would like the option to sell anything I buy if I should ever be in a situation where I need a few bucks to get by.
@Gokuhouse: I would sue over this. Ownership rights are important. Without this lawsuit Amazon would be able to do it again for some other text. We should own what we buy whether it is physical or digital.
Wouldn't different copies of the book have different pagination anyways? I'm sure as long as he covers all the relevant points in the book, the teacher isn't going to go "Hey, the rat torture didn't happen on page 234, F!"
@socalrob of the 24 and a half century: I think the lawsuit has a leg to stand on. This would be like buying a book and someone from the company later walks up to you grabs the book and hands you a check for it. Amazon hacked the person's property without permission. That should be illegal.
@eelmonger: Indeed. As a former HS teacher myself, I'd be shocked if his teacher wasn't very understanding about this.
OTOH, the kind of teacher who assigns summer homework might not be the most empathetic one in the school. I've taught AP myself, but I could never bring myself to infringe on summer break, no matter how much material I needed to cram in.
@nybiker: He was probably taking notes on the book as he read and was planning to compile them into his assignment on each 100 pages. Now he has to go through and match up what he wrote to the relevant portions of the book - which probably won't take as long as reading the first time, but I'm sure is pretty annoying.
@jmurphy42: If only I'd had you for AP English! IIRC we had to read at least 8 (of a possible 12) novels and right "journals" about all of them before the school year started. Ugh.
Not that this isn't a bad thing, but his individual plight isn't really any worse than anyone else who lost their books in this manner. It's not as though the content of the book is changing, nor would his thoughts on the book - the pages are just in a different distribution.
@nybiker: While I think that this is one of those "borderline" lawsuits, I can still understand.
See, some of us like to write in shorthand and make tight page references.
If you get the same book published by a different company, you'd be hard pressed to find a version with the same formatting and page numbering. Once you're about 100 pages in, you're kinda hosed at that point.
@socalrob of the 24 and a half century: It's an issue of ownership rights. Just because a book is still digital does not give Amazon the right to take it from you. Once you paid for it, it's effectively your property. If I sold you something which turned out later to be unauthorized, I cannot walk into your house and take it from you without your consent.
@MauriceCallidice: I'm not a spelling nerd...but I do find your use of "right" both funny and ironic.
@thezone:
because they were illegally printedI think that adequately addresses your comment.
Plus, he got an immediate refund. What's the problem here?
If I sold you something which turned out later to be unauthorized, I cannot walk into your house and take it from you without your consent.People get their homes raided and have their counterfeit goods confiscated all the time, regardless of whether or know they were purchased under the assumption that they were legit. Granted, that's law enforcement doing the raiding and not your average Joe.
@coren: "The case seeks unspecified damages for all buyers of e-books that Amazon deleted from the Kindle as well as a ban on future deletions." -From the AP story
@supercereal:
Not without a warrant they don't.
If Amazon wants to get a judge to sign-off on a "search and seize" warrant for "illegally distributed digital media", then fine. But they didn't do that, they took the action without the benefit of legal cover or oversight. I'm constantly amazed at how easily some people surrender their rights.
@supercereal: The problem here is that there was no warning.
An analogy here would have been if you rented a car, took it to a place remote and then the rental company dispatched a tow truck and towed it away because they didn't own the title to the car. See how you would feel about an immediate refund when you are stranded in the middle of nowhere.
@supercereal: Being snatched by the person who fraudulently printed them in the first place. Amazon illegally printed the books then fraudulently sold them to customers, then stole them back from the same customers. Amazon is liable thrice in this little story.
@LatherRinseRepeat: But...but...but....What about all the rampant piracy that will happen if all our digital items aren't weighted down with DRM? Won't someone please think of the poor CEO's? The only way they can keep from starving is thanks to DRM....Apparently.
@nybiker: Interesting point. This is why most teachers assign the same editions of the same book, because page divisions could fall differently for different editions.
@suburbancowboy: I just like books, period. There's something about the heft, the feel of the pages, and even the smell of a new book that a slick piece of technology fails to capture. And I like gadgets.
@supercereal
The key words here are "law enforcement". There was no warrant, no notice, no nothing. They effectively *stole* his property.
I posted this on Gizmodo, but even with his book deleted by Amazon, his notes should still be in his My Clippings.txt, and all he needs to do is mount the Kindle on his computer, navigate to Documents, and open the file.
The problem with that though, is that the notes reference the Locations of the book, which is no longer on the device.
There are, however, other copies of 1984 in the Kindle Store which should be formatted and typeset similarly to his copy, meaning he should be able to get close with lining his notes up.
But seriously, I have a Kindle 2, and I would not use it for serious heavy notating- The keyboard and screen are not up to par for any real typing
The key words here are "law enforcement". There was no warrant, no notice, no nothing. Amazon had no right to go in and effectively *steal* his property. They should have gone through proper legal channels first.
This is why there are books and post it notes.
@RecordStoreToughGuy: In college, we would sometimes have people who had an earlier edition or one without annotations, which the professor would sometimes use in his/her material. That person (sometimes it was me) would then have to con someone into making them a copy of said notes for whatever assignment they were needed for.
I couldn't always get the annotated version; the bookstore always ran out and it took WEEKS to get more. By the time they got them in, you were already halfway through the semester. So it was easier just to go to the used bookstore. That always used to make me so mad!
I think perhaps they could have warned people. I mean, come on.
@linkura: Except if this kid wins, book ownership in a digital form might actually become ownership. This is a really important lawsuit.
@LatherRinseRepeat: And this lawsuit could kill book drm. Basically we are all going to benefit if this kid wins. You have to give him props for finding a legit way to actually be damaged by Amazons' actions.
People, ignore the homework aspect. This is a lawsuit that may prevent Amazon from doing this in the future and will help convince companies that when you sell a digital book, the person needs to own that book.
From a punitive standpoint, this kid's claim seems a bit ridiculous to me. Amazon didn't prevent him from doing his work, they just made it slightly more difficult. He got a refund, so it's not like it was impossible for him to get another copy of the book - which in any case is readily available in most libraries. Summer break isn't over most students yet, so it also sounds like he had ample time to do the work.
I totally support this as a preventative measure for future theft on Amazon's part. But if this guy actually seriously believes that this posed a real obstacle to his completing his homework, he might not be responsible enough for an AP class. My guess, though, is that this is a clever way to make a more convincing case against Amazon for the general transgression of deleting the books.
@supercereal: The point is Amazon illegally went into the person's Kindle and removed an item. It would be like someone picking the lock on your door removing the illegal book and crediting your account. Amazon should have notified the buyer that the copy was fraudulent and given them options to remove the book. Amazon had no right to remove anything from the person's Kindle without the owner's specific permission.
@socalrob of the 24 and a half century: I think this student also has a claim that, in taking the book back, Amazon invalidated his work so he suffered damages more than just the price of the book.
@suburbancowboy: Lending books to people? What are you, a communist? Don't you know that letting other people listen to your music or read your books is what's killing America?!?!?
@RecordStoreToughGuy: Yeah, that's a really big part of why I can't get behind something like the Kindle. I know it's hypothetically more convenient, but I just love having an actual book.
@I Love New Jersey: I was about to pay attention to your comment. Then I noticed that not only are you from NJ but you seem to love it. You obviously must be insane. Just Kidding.
I actually like having a physical book too. There's something about seeing your progress in the book. I may try a Kindle but I still think I would miss the tactile sensations of an honest to goodness book.
Steve Bezos ate my homework!!!
Nice ONE