Well, I know on the FiOS commercials, it has all of that information down in the fine print and the fast lawyer-speak. I believe they switched to this sort of a voucher program after their fiasco with the free LCD TV's in the past.

Cancel. Blatant misrepresentation, plus the sales rep deliberately hid or misled the OP on the actual facts.

I think we can all agree, sales people fudge a bit, and to a large extent, we expect a little disappointment when we discover it isn't 100% as described.

But 2-3 months of useless service, the S&H charge and the snarky attitude issues? Nope, sorry, I'm cancelling.

I think that he has a legitimate complaint. Sales associates should never so severely misrep a deal in order to close a sale. Perhaps Ray should have extracted the exact details out of the SA, but I don't think that he is to blame here.

For every great "Free" offer out there we all know most are loaded with stipulations that negate the deal. Unfortunately over the phone you don't have the small print in front of you to read before you agree to anything. I fell for this once on a satellite TV deal where everything including the installation was free and guaranteed over the phone, but when they showed up they wanted $125 to install it since they had to use a special kit for it. I told them 'no' and thank you for you time but 'no'! Just like the free lunch from KFC or the free sub from Quizno, there is no free lunch these days!

Cancel all of it and find a new carrier. That's just plain horsehockey.

I would like to side with this guy, he seems very new to this type of thing, but he still could have asked more about it upfront. And you never know how much the rep actually said or what they may have emailed him, mailed, etc. Technically Verizon is still giving him a "free" netbook.

While I think the sales rep should have informed him that the netbook wasn't going to arrive for another 90 days, I don't think he should have relied on that netbook as the primary computer to use the internet.

@HPCommando: Even if he got the vouvher it would normally take 8-12 weeks to receive so whats the difference. Find out how long until he gets it.. Could end up he has it in 3 months same as most MIR...

Most salesman do not misrepresent and it is ignorance to assume such a thing. He could be new, dumb, anything.. Sheeesh it drives me crazy people like you that assume.

The OP is right he was mislead and should be taken care of. That is wrong on Verizons side but dont blame the sales guy unless you have proof.

@temporaryerror: How do you know he mis-rep'd the deal? Again another person saying this.. If you have proof say it.. maybe he was mis-trainined, mis-lead, or just new...

Blame verizon for not fixing it but not someone you have no proof did anything

We should all know by now that when something is "free", there's usually a catch. Especially with Verizon. I remember hearing awful stories about their free TV offer a while back.

The terms and conditions for the "free" netbook are on the website..

* Compaq Mini netbook (or product of comparable value) available with coupon redeemable online at HP Home & Home Office while supplies last.

* Valid credit card required.

* Must have service for 60 days with no past due balance.

* Promotional certificate sent within 90 days of install date & requires redemption within 60 days of receipt.

* Offer valid through 9/19/09.

* Must install by 11/19/09.

Verizon has been heavily advertising the free netbook offer in my area too, on both TV and radio. They only mention that you have to pay tax and shipping. Of course they don't say what the exact shipping fee is. I guess $45 is cheaper than the full price of a netbook, but I still think they should mention the actual fee to help consumers make a better decision.

I'd cancel, the cable companies should have "Local Calling Only" digital phone packages for about $25/month.

They don't have the silly $7/month subscriber line charge.

$80 for a netbook is still a steal, but yeah, the misrepresentation is bad.

I get that Verizon is trying to prevent people from just cancelling service and running off with their free netbook, but a better solution would be: giving the netbook with the stipulation that if service is cancelled before 3 months, that the full price of the netbook will be billed to you. This way, people entering into the netbook program can actually USE the internet service they have to pay for the 2-3 months. It would also work better for sales of internet service, as it would convince people who are enjoying their netbook and internet service to keep the subscription.

I can see Verizon's angle on this: trying to avoid being bilked out of a bunch of netbooks by people who jump ship after one month. But if the OP is to believed, this "minor" detail didn't seem to make it into the discussion.

I'd be annoyed if I were in the OP's position. FIOS may be a great product, but I have no interest in acquiring it if it means dealing with the snake oil salespeople that work for Verizon.

Verizon is not to be trusted, under any circumstance.

I can't say I'm at all surprised at their "failure to mention" policy, because it has just happened to me.

An anecdote to back that up:

A few weeks ago Consumerist posted a story about a Verizon customer being unable to pay their bill online after they enrolled in Verizon One-Bill. This post was literally about 2 or 3 days after I had enrolled in the same program. I checked it out and it was absolutely true. There was no way to pay my bill online. I wasn't having that. I finally got around to calling them this morning, and they had told me my service had been upgraded to 3Mb/sec (I had[have] 1Mb/s at the promotional rate of $19.99 a month for one year). Apparently, without my consent, my service was upgraded and I was now paying $39.99 monthly, just for switching to One-Bill. Now they were telling me that after they're separated, because the $19.99 rate is no longer offered, I would have to pay $29.99 for the same 1Mb/s internet I had two weeks ago. I told them I absolutely did not consent to any such upgrade, all I wanted was my cell phone and my DSL charges on the same piece of paper. After about 20 minutes of arguing I had my promo rate restored, and my One-Bill cancelled.

The only reason I am a customer of theirs is because it's cheap, and it's the only DSL in my area. I can't afford cable...

How much is he going to PAY FOR THE NETBOOK (emphasis mine). 0 he is going to pay for the service and for shipping and handling. I absolutely agree that the shipping and handling should probably be covered by Verizon but think of it this way. If they instantly shipped him a free netbook why couldn't he just cancel the service in the first 30 day time period minus penalty. I think we need to realize while mishaps do occur because of the human element the fact that he is getting a netbook that retails for probably at the least $280 for a small $80 dollars (which is not actually for the netbook but for the service and shipping)what is to complain about?

Didn't Verizon offer free flat screen TVs @ one point? Wasn't that a total disaster too?

Unless it was the free netbook that sealed the deal (so to speak), I don't think that this is a legitimate complaint. Sure the OP says that the rep said the netbook would be acquired "pretty quickly," but did he ask for any indication as to how long it would take?

I agree that the shipping and handling charges do seem on the high end, but I wouldn't mind paying a little extra on shipping for a free netbook. That's okay with me as a consumer. Just consider it a $330 discount and let the "free" slide. I don't know where the $80 figure is coming from.

Aren't the eligibility requirements there to sort of prevent people from signing up for the free netbook? That sounds legitimate to me. Pay the bills on-time: why should that even be a problem? If that's a problem, perhaps the bundle should be skipped all together.

If the OP thought that the bundle was a good deal and the netbook wasn't offered, would he still have taken the deal? If so, he would still need to get his Mother a computer to use the DSL.

Does anyone else agree?

You can get a perfectly nice netbook for $200. I have an Acer that weighs 2 pounds, has no moving parts, and goes everywhere with me. I love it, but wouldn't want it to be my only computer. Tiny keyboard, tiny screen, mediocre performance, no optical drive. Wonderful for portability, not so much for real work.

The Verizon reps should be required to refer each customer to the written terms. But Ray can back out if he wants to. Otherwise, he should ask himself whether the actual price of the service is fair and is what he wants to buy (not factoring in the netbook, which pro-rated over the life of the account is not worth much anyway). Then buy it, or not. Then choose to cash in the voucher, or not. And buy his poor Mom a real computer if she doesn't have one -- don't stick her with a netbook as her only PC. He can sell or use the netbook as a separate decision.

I can see being ticked off but the actual terms and conditions seem appropriate to me; they are what I would have suspected anyway.

When I signed up for Verizon FIOS, they had the free netbook deal as well. However, the sales rep I dealt with did detail all the specifics for obtaining it. i.e. 60 day wait, voucher, etc. I would threaten to cancel and if they don't relent, just cancel outright.

@sharkzfanz: This forum does often express advocacy for the consumer. Don't be so shocked that someone here might be cynical about the intention of Verizon's marketing force.

As ALWAYS: BUYER BEWARE - yes, it was shady, but any good consumer knows to get all the details and fine print in front of you before moving ahead on a deal like this. And a netbook for your mom who just got out of the hospital? Might something with a larger screen my friend.

If I were the OP I would cancel it. His mother's situation obviously means that he would end up getting a service he couldn't use for several months. If he's that ticked off about Verizon not telling him all of the facts up front, he should cancel out of principle.

His options:

Get the netbook after 2 to 3 months (during which you wait out the after-installation period, and pay on time) and get your netbook for an amount that is less than the cost of 2 to 3 months of internet service (about $45).

On the other hand, if he gets internet service for his mother at the same time he decides to buy her a netbook, he's paying for the full cost of the netbook as well as the internet service.

The lower ("free") cost of the netbook is balancing the cost of paying for internet you can't really "use" for that amount of time. If it's $20 a month, even after three months, it's still cheaper to pay for the internet you're not using and the shipping and handling fees for the netbook than it is to not get the internet and buy the netbook at full price.

The question is: Did you ever intend to buy your mother a computer and set her up with internet access? If not, don't even bother. If you did, consider your options.

@temporaryerror:

Being a small business owner and construction contractor, I find that people tend to hear what they want to hear, even if a written contract clearly contradicts them. We call it convenient memory.

Just because this guy says it was misrepresented to him, doesn't make it so. The burden is on him to know all terms and conditions up front. I'm no fan of huge companies, but his expectations are clearly out of whack with the reality of a "free" offer.

The OP originally wanted a landline for his mother and was talked into getting a free netbook with DSL service for ONLY $20 MORE! I'm not sure what the minimum contract length is, but if it's 12 months, the free netbook cost him $240 + the $45 S&H fee. An Compaq Mini starts at 279.99 retail at HP.com.

This is a classic up-sell.

@sharkzfanz: Bull****. Sales people misrepresent things all the time. It's their job to sell, not to be accurate. I've worked in a few tech support callcenters and a good number of our calls were caused by salespeople blatantly lying about what the product could do. And the person who calls rarely remembers the name of the person who sold them the product, so good luck trying to catch them. Not that management cares anyway, as probably 95% of people who get sold something on bogus claims never realize it.

If you really want to experience salespeople lying through their teeth, just go to BestBuy and try to buy a computer. Or go try to buy a used car.

Also, the whole "8-12" weeks for anything from a company is utter nonsense too. The postal system usually takes about 3-4 days to get from anywhere in the US to anywhere in the US. All they have to do is stick it in the mail. There's no difference between sticking in the mail tomorrow and sticking it in the mail 3 months from now, other than that they can count the revenue this quarter and the costs next quarter (I'm sure it has something to do with that).

@sharkzfanz: We know it because the salesperson is responsible for setting the the customer's expectations. If he had told Ray that he would be getting the netbook in three months after subscribing, and that it would cost him $45 for shipping, A) Ray would not have thought he was going to get it for "Free" or immediately, and B) Ray would not have purchased the service. Ray's expectations reflect what was told to him by the salesperson.

@rpm773: couldn't they solve that problem by instituting a contract & ETF (kind of like their cell division)? i think that would be a much better program & more consumers would take advantage of it. deliver the netbook w/ the modem @ install & as long as the customer pays & stays a customer for 2 years, they get to keep it.

@sharkzfanz: "Most salesman do not misrepresent and it is ignorance to assume such a thing."

Please tell me you're joking! Have you ever worked with salesmen? Assuming they do NOT represent their products is ignorance.

@rwyuan: But if he intended to buy his mother a computer and set up internet for her anyway, then it's not exactly so much of an upsell. Also, you didn't factor in tax. The OP is in New Jersey, which has a 7% sales tax, I think. A Compaq Mini at $279.99 would be around $300 after tax is calculated. If Verizon doesn't charge tax, the OP could be saving money.

@madmathias: might *want* - ugh.

@evelus2: If they're worried about him canceling, they should do what their cell phone division does and charge you for the netbook if you cancel within a certain time period. (Which, btw, is why you have a termination fee when you get that "free" phone with a 2 year plan). Should be prorated though.

@rwyuan: Well, keep in mind that the netbook is actually useful to him (err, his mother). It's not like she's getting a superfluous netbook she'll have no use for.

Unfortunately, Verizon obviously intended the netbook to be a superfluous one, because anyone intending to use it to access their newly-installed DSL would actually have to wait for two months.

Verizon pulled a similar stunt on me with my smartphone and data plan. Now I'm stuck under contract and can't cancel unless I want to pay the cancellation fees. If you still have the option, cancel. They shouldn't be allowed to sell one thing, but hold you accountable for something else.

@aen: Shipping fee + 3 months of service that she can't use until she gets the netbook.

Also, it was the netbook that sealed the deal, since his mother didn't have a computer.

"I told the Verizon rep that my mother doesn't have a PC right now, so I was only calling for a landline. The Verizon rep offered a bundle including DSL, and would throw in a free netbook."

Unfortunately, I think this is another example of why it's important to get the sales rep to put it in writing on the contract. Otherwise you're signing that what the contract says (all of the stuff above, apparently) is OK with you.

That said, letting your sales reps lie is not acceptable.

@WhiteTrashLegend: If it was misrepresented to him then they owe him a refund at least.

When I recently signed up for Verizon they made a few things clear to me,
1) My $150 gift card wouldn't be processed until I had paid 3 bills on time
2) My $150 gift card would need to pay back if I cancel my service earlier than the agreed length of time.
3) The CS reps who are setting up your service will try to up-sell you lots of stuff (seriously, they tell you this).

I understand the OP's complaint about the $45 shipping charge, but you can't tack on the cost of the DSL service to that complaint. You agreed to buy the DSL service as a stipulation for the netbook. If the sales rep told you that you could get the netbook and cancel right away you are owed a refund however.

All of this could have been avoided by signing up via Verizon's website where all terms are clearly disclosed. It doesn't give the phone sales rep an excuse to lie, but I tend to not trust them in the first place!

Situation:

Sales puke offered you internet, you declined because of no PC.

Sales puke offered you a PC with internet sign up.

You now have internet, but still have no PC.

Cancel.

I'm confused. Why would they issue a "voucher" then charge for shipping?

Can you only use the voucher at one website?
Is the "voucher" good for 1 netbook or does it have a dollar value - that may be less than the netbook you want?

Cancel. Cut your loses, do not feel like you're invested in the deal and that you need to see it through.

@sharkzfanz:
"Most salesman do not misrepresent and it is ignorance to assume such a thing."

I don't think you've had much exposure to Call Centers. The attitude of the sales side at every one I've been in has been, "Hook the sale, and let support worry about fulfillment." Most places, to my knowledge, offer bonuses or commission on any sales, and generally don't rescind these bonuses on cancellations. Besides, most people wind up keeping the service anyways, as it's not worth the hassle to change providers yet again.

No, not every salesperson is a liar. But there's a fairly high percentage of people out there, when faced with "bending the truth" or "not being paid" will push the slider a little more towards the former than the latter.

Salespeople hate to give any negative information whatsoever, it can kill or delay a sale. And a delayed sale winds up in someone else's tally, wasting the effort they've put on the call. Most of the time they'll figure the installer/fulfillment will inform the customer of any conditions or drawbacks, or it'll be in the paperwork you receive on enrollment.

Please see my answer below for why the responsibility for disclosure is on the salesman in this instance - They're the one that tailored the upsell, knowing the OP's situation.

While it does seem like the OP's expectations were pretty high, it was the salesman, being "proactive," who offered the customer an upsell for his mother's situation.

The salesman should already have a company-approved answer on how long it takes to get the netbook, as this would be a pretty common question. Even if the OP did not bring it up, the salesman was the one who upsold the package, to offer them a PC so they would also subscribe to Verizon's internet service - Choosing to leave out the conditions to receive it is just plain negligent when you're offering a service that relies on getting it.

I don't understand why people agree to things like this over the phone. It's like signing a contract you haven't read. The phone representatives are trying to make a sale. They are not looking out for your interests.

Yes, if Ray was lied to, he has a legitimate complaint. Based on the miscommunication, he should be allowed to cancel the internet service if he no longer wants it. Other than that, I don't think Verizon should offer him anything more than other customers are due.

@vastrightwing: I wonder of those customers also expected that they wouldn't have to pay for service until they got their free TVs.

Given the history, Ray will be lucky if he actually gets a netbook in only 2-3 months.

@HPCommando: Time out. I was JUST looking into getting Fios, and I looked at this deal in particular, and it is CLEARLY explained. This guy is wrong for not paying attention to the details before signing on.

This is Bob Elek with Verizon. We have been very clear on the terms and conditions of this offer with all public representations including the news release on its availability (you can read it at [newscenter.verizon.com] - there is a FiOS version of this release as well). As you can see in the posts, another customer was told about the offer and the terms surrounding it. That is what our reps are expected to do. To pay shipping and handling for a device that retails at $300 is not an outrageous expectation. Bottom line for the customer who feels wronged - bundles can be terminated within 30 days with no penalty. We will be sure he is made whole…and as always, we will stand behind any of our promotional offerings in the market.

It is slightly legitimate in regards of watching a 15-30 second tv commercial, but it isn't if you've received countless flyers and emails or visited the website that offers the bundles.

They should have it in the tv commercial that you get to pay shipping, and that its after 60 days.

However, you can read all of that within the first few lines of the promotional guidelines when visiting the website.

60 days, and you have to make the payments on time, and Verizon service always charges the month AHEAD.

However, you buying internet service for a computer that you don't have yet???? It seems like somebody trying to take advantage of an offer they weren't expecting on buying in the first place, but once they did they didn't read all the details.

Verizon obviously does not want to ship you a computer within their 30-45 day cancellation window.

@mikehager66: I hate Quizno's for the run-around they gave me on the "free" sub.

Day 1: What voucher? We cannot honor a voucher we don't know about.
Day 1 (later): Kim and Sue got their free Quizno's at the same place I got rejected since they realized a promotion was going on.
Day 2: We're not honoring that voucher anymore.
Days 1, 2, and 5: Send off emails to Quizno's corporate requesting explanation and explaining that they wasted over an hour of my time for a promotion they didn't honor. They never wrote back (and yes, I phrase my emails kindly/appropriately since I realize it isn't the managers/executives who made the scam who are reading my emails).

I realize corporate is to blame for (most) of Quizno's problems but I'm not buying anything from their franchises since corporate always gets a cut.

Just another reason for me not to switch to Verizon. Their sales reps are ringing my doorbell twice a month trying to sign me up for FiOS.

(Digression: in the town in which I live, there is an ordnance against door-to-door soliciting. I inform the Verizon person of the ordnance, tell them they're trespassing (signs posted at the entrance to my subdivision) and ask them to leave the property. When they leave my doorstep and walk towards another house to ring that doorbell, I call the local constabulary.

I have had Verizon as a provider for my multiple phone lines for years. After huge struggle with them a year ago to get repair out here in a timely fashion to fix several of the lines that had no dial tone, I swore I'd never switch over to them for my internet.

A year ago it took Verizon almost a week to come out and repair those phone lines, and Verizon was already operating under a "corrective action plan" from the Maryland Public Service Commission, because Verizon was failing to correct problems within the required 8 hours after receiving a report. (This 8-hour time frame is mandated by Maryland State Law.) The MD Public Service Commission instituted proceedings against Verizon because of the increase in number of complaints they were receiving from consumers. MD residents were going without phone service for 8 to 10 days before Verizon would bother to show up to fix their lines.

Even a year after Verizon provided the PSC a corrective action plan, the waits were still well in excess of 8 hours (for me, 6 days.)

(Yup, I filed a complaint with the MD Public Service Commission.)

There is no way I will allow these idjits to provide me with internet service. They have ZERO credibility with me.

But I think it's awesome that Ray wrote about his experience with Verizon so others could be warned about how unscrupulous Verizon is.