Chase Barrages Customer With Overdraft Fees
Just about everyone's been smacked with an overdraft fee before, but Michael writes us about his partner who is drowning in a flood of such exploitative charges.
His tale:
I am really hoping Consumerist can help me with this. I know this isn't a rare or shocking issue, but Chase is really hurting my partner's new business with a massive amount of overdraft fees. My partner, Frank, used his personal card to buy computer equipment for his business (after his bank canceled most of his business credit lines). He forgot this card deducted right out of his checking account, a mistake he admits. The bank proceeded to charge $34 for each of 18 charges, including a 45 cent parking meter charge and several charges in a row for $5 drinks at a bar.
Frank has spoken with about half a dozen different people in person and over the phone with little result (they overturned the 45 cent charge). Chase is claiming these charges are from Wamu, but then claim there is no one from Wamu left with the authority to overturn these charges.
My partner has really been struggling to start his business (Chiropractic office). He has more than $250,000 of debt from medical school and has had so many deals fall through for credit to start his business because of the economy (his credit is flawless), but is one of the hardest workers I know. I pray Consumerist can help bring attention to Chase's abuse of a loyal customer and possibly help remedy this injustice.
If Consumerist had the power to answer prayers, it would most certainly charge for the service, or at least suggest a hefty donation for its tip jar. But what we can do is post your tale and inspire a lot of commenters to curse Chase's name and join in with their own horror stories about that bank and others. So off we go!
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Comments:
I might get slammed here and I have never gone down the "blame the OP" route before but he is a "business owner" and "forgot that money comes out of checking account"?? Come on, other personal overdraft fee stories on consumerist have much better explanations than THIS.
Again, I hate to be the "blame the OP" (partner) post here, but I think the keyword here is "business owner".
@Brian James Schend: You sure that wasn't the Great Stan? Honestly, if we are worshiping Satan, I need to get a bigger sacrificial alter! ;-)
Step 1: Make a mistake
Step 1a: Admit to mistake before a jury of internet peers
Step 1b: Take the subsequent "blame the OP" beating
Step 2: Reasonably come up with options to solve problem of massive fees
Step 2a: Gird your loins and resolve to not give up
Step 2b: Recite William Wallace's speech from "Braveheart" and the president's speech from "Independence Day" for inspiration
Step 3: Call Chase
Step 4: Patiently speak to a representative
Assuming this does nothing to resolve your problem...
Step 5: Try to reach a second representative or manager
Asssuming this does nothing to resolve your problem
Step 6: Upgrade to Blackwatch Plaid threat level alert and utilize the power of the internet hate machine while simultaneously launching an EECB of such epic proportions, Chase will have no option but to bend to your will
Step 7: Celebrate, but don't give Chase any more of your money
OK, I hate Chase for a number of customer service issues and their fee-happy policies, but this case is not one to slam Chase about. OK, why were the business cards cancelled, hmmmm? Could it be that this person was irresponsible? Paying for a 45-cent parking meter with a credit card sure supports that idea. Several charges in a row at a bar???? Are you sure this request wasn't a joke?
Why does anyone use a debit card? Silly. I know Citibank (at one point if not still) would issue you a plain ATM card instead of a debit card so you wouldn't be tempted or forgetful enough to use it as a debit card.
Your friend may be a hard worker but damn, get that boy an accountant, stat.
I went into a Chase branch last Wednesday to close my WaMu account and was told the Great Takeover would not be official until yesterday. So, even if the fees were from before yesterday, WaMu has nothing to do with any of it - it's all Chase. The good news is account history stays, so if he's been a good and loyal WaMu customer for years and years he can pull rank and see if that gets him anywhere.
It probably won't, but it's worth a shot.
I'd suggest giving it a go. I'd love to bad mouth Chase here, but in all honesty this is your partner's fault. Nice guy that he is, and yes, everyone makes mistakes. But it's his responsibility to tell check card from credit.
Sorry.
@georgi55: Actually, one point I want to make before I'm slammed, the submitter wrote "He forgot this card deducted right out of his checking account" but could this actually mean he just mistook the debit card and thought it was a credit card? As in, he has a similar looking credit card that still works, and he thought he was using credit card, but it was actually debit card all along? Many debit cards look like credit cardsand the only difference is the "debit" writing somewhere around the VISA/MasterCard logo so if he just mistook the debit card then that's a better explanation of the mistake rather than knowingly using a "debit card" and not knowing how the money comes out of it.
leave chase and find a bank that maxes out on overdraft fees. For instance my bank tops out at 5 a day(though I've yet to test the policy). Chase will also charge you per day that the account is negative, it's called the the escalator to collections.
Whoever is to blame, the bank should work with him if only reducing the charges. Why? He is a customer. Now, if they want to get rid of him they are doing the right thing. Banks and customer "service" don't go together much anymore.
@georgi55: Oh crap, Consumerist, now you are making me look bad, you updated HIS submission's wording, so now my post above looks like I'm slamming submitter for nothing. Hopefully people read this before slamming me as my argument above is not valid anymore.
I'm a chase customer. I managed to have a multiple overdraft cascade reversed by simply asking. They claim you get one reversal a year. Save it for a big one! I called the customer service line and they took care of it. One note, this was a Chase account. YMMV on a Wamu account.
Partner as in business partner? Sounds like you need to know more about Frank.
Most new small businesses are extended credit based on the personal credit of the business owner. If his personal credit is flawless, why would his bank cancel his business credit lines?
And since he did overdraft, what he is looking for is basically a favor from the bank. "Hey, I screwed up, can you help me?". The bank reversed one charge. Not one you wanted, but at least something.
If his credit truly is flawless, he should look into something called overdraft protection.
@ddmeightball: Sacrificing before an alter is so passe, you need to start sacrificing on the front steps of one the "businesses" that keep getting posted on here.
Not only is it more environmentally friendly, the sacrifices are reuseable and you don't even have to buy the alter :D
I've been dropping by Chase retail branches to ask questions lately (trying to get a concensus on what that "one customer initiated transaction" actually means - Chase's "escape clause of sorts" for the grandfathered WaMu accounts, but it seems like every employee has a different idea of what it exactly means) and every time, I seem to stumble upon a front desk banker fielding phone calls.
And from context (or overhearing what that banker speaks to other bankers), every phone call happened to be an irate customer complaining about an overdraft.
Now, I've been very fortunate not to ever overdraft, whether through any fault of my own or artificially induced. But, I'm wondering if this is a sign that I should flee after all. Four times this week seems an awful lot to be a coincidence...
@SkokieGuy: I did not presume this to mean "business partner" since the OP specifies that Frank used his card for "his" business. A joint venture would imply "our" business.
I have worked in the banking industry for several years. I have stopped feeling sorry for people who tell me their sob stories about their experiences with large banks. By and large, customer service for small-fish customers at big banks is abysmal. We mean nothing to them.
Community Banks and Credit Unions are smaller and on average offer much better service than the big banks. Your small-time account from Chase is a much bigger deal to a community bank. I have found that many Community Banks offer the same perks as the larger banks: Internet Banking, No ATM Fees and Bill Pay. On top of this, your Banker will likely know who you are when you walk in the door.
Let the big banks know how important they are to you and take your business elsewhere. Your local community bank or credit union will thank you.
I doubt his credit is flawless with that much debt.
He must have put a lot of $5.00 drinks on his debit card. As previously stated, as a businessman and professional he should have known he was using the card as a debit or credit card. Maybe the drinking clouded his judgment. Everyone knows or should know by now that banks are raping the public with their "fees" since they can't get money from depositors with their lousy rates.
We just closed our Chase account this past Friday. Hopefully we'll never need to work with a bank again - credit unions from now on.
Chase is lying. I was in the process of closing my WaMu account (I had about ten dollars left in there) when Paypal tried to charge my bank account for two items that had already been put through. I straightened things out with Paypal, and then I went into the WaMu branch and asked them to reverse the overdraft fees since the charges were not my fault. They were able to do so right then and there, and I was able to close my account with a zero balance.
Not that this really needs to be said but Chase has never given two shits about any of its non-commercial customers. They've always seen them as more of a nuisance than anything else.
To anyone still using that shitty bank, do yourself a favor and dump them for a good bank or credit union.
@wmpp: I have stopped feeling sorry for tellers and bankers who tell me their sob stories about rude irresponsible customers.
I think its a lot of fun to viciously let bank tellers and their managers have it in person when they do the least little thing you don't like at drive thrus and on the phone. They are scum and thugs. They are simply their to buttrape you financially and deserve it. The more we abuse them for fun the sooner they will be out of business.
I am a chiropractor. The business owner here is a chiropractor, which basically means that he does not have ANY training in how to start or run a business. I feel his pain.
Point of clarification: in order to avoid an all too common misunderstanding, the business owner here did NOT attend medical school. He went to chiropractic college. This is an important clarification because the person writing the letter may perpetuate the misunderstandings about where and how chiropractors are trained.
@Rectilinear Propagation: "forgot that money comes out of checking account" got changed to
"forgot this card deducted right out of his checking account"
The initial submission sounded like the guy didn't know how debit card works, the changed part just says the guy used a wrong card by mistake.
@savdavid: Good point, a nice gesture would be to cut the cost in half, he pays for his mistake, bank gets to keep a customer
@oghelpme: The problem is it sounds like he was charging expensive stuff. If it's the case that every single charge by itself was an overdraft, I doubt they will remove them. If 17 charges would have gone through fine and only one caused the overdraft, then they should hopefully be able to get some help.
Honestly I agree with the people who say this is the OPs fault. A person is responsible for their actions.
BUT
It's not like is *cost* Chase anything near the ~$600 to extend money to cover that multitude of small transactions. Obviously from the patern of charges described the customer was unaware of their issue.
Be a big boy Chase. Give the guy a break. Starting out after college is hard enough!
Just another one of the reasons I bank with a small, locally owned bank. I can call them up say, "Hey, its me. I goofed." Next thing you know its fixed.
Step 8: Relocate your accounts to a Credit Union with better service.
Step 9: Profit!
@georgi55: don't worry, you're correct. i don't see a change, but the bottom line is the guy messed up. personally i'd like to see debit transactions declined for NSF, rather than automatically overdrawing the account and causing fees, but the guy made a mistake, unfortunately a pretty costly one.
@pecan 3.14159265: but they did say his bank closed his business lines of credit. presumably they wouldnt have done that if he had great credit, although nowadays they might if his credit was only average
I really can't stand Chase. I just got a bill in the mail from them with charges I didn't know about. Apparently you don't have to sign anything for account protection which I was charged for. Since I payed off the entire balance 2 months ago, I didn't expect anything to be on there. Now there is a charge for account protection, a late fee and get this... they raised my interest rate to 29.99%. At first I laughed when they raised the interest since it was payed off. That quickly turned to anger once I saw those charges. Chase sucks.
@SkokieGuy: Sounds a lot less like partner-as-in-business-partner, and more like partner-as-in-life-partner, at least that's how I read it. The OP seems to know a lot about Frank starting his business, not their business.
On a separate note, chiropracters go to medical school?
So close the account and take your money (and debt) elsewhere.
Meanwhile, stop trying to borrow money. Instead of having your own practice, try working with an established practice for a while so you can get your significant debt paid down. They'll already have the computer equipment and office space.
And when you're earning your full pay, keep living like a resident until you get rid of that debt. Don't inflate your lifestyle until you get your debt and spending under control.
Consumerist commenters: like the communion of saints, but with better nicknames.