Are Blu-ray Netflix Customers Paying Extra Because The Discs Keep Cracking?
Do you rent Blu-ray discs from Netflix? Have you had any show up with a crack on the outer edge that makes the disc unplayable? Victor just wrote to us that he's received several Blu-ray discs lately that are damaged, and he's wondering if it's just him or part of a wider problem.
Here's what's been happening to Victor:
We have been experiencing a growing number of brand new Blu-Ray releases from Netflix that arrive with a small crack (usually 1-3mm, and sometimes only through the hardcoat part) along the outer edge that makes the disc unplayable. In better than 4 years we have had only ONE regular Netflix DVD arrive cracked, but with Blu Ray we've now have three arrive in just the last three weeks with this problem. I started asking around, and it seems like this is a growing problem. The Blu Ray hard coating actually seems to make the discs MORE susceptible to damage in transit.
Mars Box noted this problem nearly two years ago, when 13 out of 24 Blu-ray titles he rented in September and October of 2007 arrived cracked. In the comments below the post, other Netflix customers are still posting (as recently as last month) that their Blu-ray rentals keep showing up cracked.
Netflix raised the rates on Blu-ray plans by $1 per membership tier this past March. At the time, they justified the price increase by saying, "Blu-ray discs are substantially more expensive than standard definition DVDs." We wonder if that price increase wasn't also a way for Netflix to avoid an expensive envelope redesign, and pass the cost of frequent disc replacement over to the consumers who rent Blu-ray in the first place.
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(Photo: Ross C.)
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Comments:
Well, if they *ARE* breaking in prodigious amounts, that does make them 'substantially more expensive', now doesn't it? Good ol' PR to the rescue!
It seems that 1 out of every 3 or 4 Blu-ray movies I get from Netflix are damaged. And here I thought it was just me. It's usually that the outside of the disc has a more a nick in it than a scratch. I am not sure if I feel better that I am not alone with this issue, though...
I've noticed a high number of Blu-ray discs with cracks starting in the middle heading out to the edge like spokes. As if someone pushed the disc down on a spindle. Some of these were even new releases, so it's certainly a serious problem as the discs seem very fragile.
And this problem is not just Netflix's, but Sony's. If Blu-ray discs get a reputation for poor quality, the tech is probably dead in the water as far as consumers are concerned.
@andystep12: Well, to be fair, the HD DVDs I got from Netflix were often unplayable, but that was due to the horrible scratching on them rather than cracking in transit.
The Netflix packaging is pretty crappy, and I doubt Sony would say that they designed their disks to be put in a shitty envelope and passed through the nation's postal service.
Looking at our history, we have received just over 100 Blu-rays from Netflix and have had zero cracking problems.
The discs are not as fragile as one would think. In fact, by spec they're supposed to be stronger than conventional DVDs (though not all are created equal). Then again, that might not mean anything.
We have, however, received two scratched discs and sometimes haven't received any discs at all.
@kraftmayo: "The Netflix packaging is pretty crappy..."
That may be true, but I've been a subscriber for several years and I've only had this problem with Blu-rays.
I've been a happy Netflix customer for over 4 or so years. When I got my PS3 I instantly changed my status to blu-ray. Not once have I received a cracked or unplayable disc. They are not fragile nor are they structurally inferior to standard dvds.
I get bluray's every time and this has never happened to me in the 60-70 blu-rays ive rented.
I have yet to get a cracked blu ray that is unplayable, in the past 8-9 months of getting probably 2 blu rays per week.
@andystep12:
Friends
andystep12 has no friends.
And this is why...
Seriously how would HDDVD be better for Shipping than BLU RAY?
Why do people pine for HDDVD so? It was at best stepping stone tech and they were hoping and counting on BD not being available far later than it ended up being released.
Never happened to me. But conspiracy theories are fun!
@Gilbert: the coating put on BDs only add protection from scratches. the coating has never been touted for structural protection. Though it seems to be causing problems for the format.
About 5 years ago, Netflix sent me at least eight X-Files DVDs (regular ones, obviously) that were cracked. We had a great time coming up with conspiracy theories about THAT.
Blu-Rays from what I have read crack more and some post offices don't treat them right, so the problem depends on YOUR post office sorting center. I don't think it was a major reason for the price increase which was mostly that the disk themselves cost more.
I've never received a damaged BD from netflix. However, I've decided to limit my BD rentals to only those movies with superior visual graphics (blockbusters), not just any ol' show. BD takes way too much room on my HD if you get my drift. A high quality upconvertor DVD player makes standard DVD almost as good as BD at a fraction of the bandwidth on my 67" 1080 HDTV.
I think they should have been made with a protective case, like the minidisc was.
[www.minidisc.org]
That was not well-received because it is "too expensive" to manufacture. But I think the real issue is when something like this is damaged, the content owner gets to sell the same thing over again. With a protective case that wouldn't happen nearly as often.
Never had a problem with cracked Blu-Rays from Netflix, and I get a fair amount. A few times, scratches or smudges have made them skip, but every time but once that was resolved by giving it a vigorous wiping with a bit of tissue.
Why don't they just ship BRs in a sturdy plastic case that's also recyclable?
@KingPsyz here for HappyFunKingPsyz©: Blu-ray has a hard covering that resists scratches, but also makes the discs less flexible. Since regular DVDs (and HD DVDs) are relatively flexible, they make it through the post office sorting machines intact. Blu-ray discs are more firm, and are therefore easier to break.
@KingPsyz here for HappyFunKingPsyz©: It's physics. Blu-Ray uses a laser with a shorter wavelength than HDVD. This necessitates the data layer being closer to the surface. Due to this fragility, the original BR development discs pointed to the final product having a casing around it so it could have better resistance to scratches and handling. Then someone developed a different hard polycarbonate coating to protect the surface without a casing. Being harder, stresses on the disc similar to what would happen on a regular DVD that would just get bent might manifest themselves as cracks on BR.
"We wonder if that price increase wasn't also a way for Netflix to avoid an expensive envelope redesign, and pass the cost of frequent disc replacement over to the consumers who rent Blu-ray in the first place."
That's because you look at everything from the perspective that companies hate their customers. We KNOW that Blu-Ray discs are more expensive than DVDs, so it is not unreasonable to expect the small subset of customers who want them to cover that additional cost.
Regarding your theory though, I think you need to take the tinfoil hat off. Discs are incredibly inexpensive to press, and Netflix doesn't have to pay the full cost of the movie to get a new copy when one is damaged. I suspect that the price Netflix pays for replacement discs is much closer to the cost of pressing the disc than it is to the cost of the movie. Which means a disc would have to break a dozen times or so before the cost of replacing it equals the cost difference between Blu-Ray and DVD.
Also, add me to the list of Blu-Ray customers who have never received a cracked disc from Netflix.
Blu-ray has a hard covering that resists scratches, but also makes the discs less flexible. Since regular DVDs (and HD DVDs) are relatively bendable, they make it through the post office sorting machines intact.
In short, Blu-ray discs are more rigid, and are therefore easier to crack or break.
We just had our first completely unplayable Blu-Ray disc from Netflix last week.
My fiancé and I between us have at least 6 years (some overlapping, in different households) of Netflix history, and he's never had a damaged DVD arrive before. I had one, or rather my roommate did, in 2004, when a disc arrived literally snapped in half.
We've gone through a bunch of blu-ray discs from Netflix in the last 10-12 months and so far only the one problem... I hope it stays as only one problem.
@chris_d: The nice part about your comment is that you (possibly unknowingly) show the paradox between you having a physical copy of a movie and instead owning the license to view said movie in your home.
The MPAA likes to say that it's only a license to view a movie and that by having a physical copy you're not entitled to the right to view it on other formats or devices. Meanwhile, if you break the carrier media, no one will send you a free replacement, which you should be entitled to if you really only purchased a license to view.
In the words of Jack Valenti: "Who needs a backup? If you need a backup copy of a DVD just buy another copy."
If this is a problem (and it seems it at least needs looking into), then my concern would be the cost differential to the consumer. They get billed the same amount each month, but the damaged DVDs mean they get less movies per dollar spent. Not a big deal for a casual user, but if you watch a lot of Blu-Rays...
I haven't noticed cracks (never occurred to me to look for any), but I have noticed that many of the Blu-Rays that I've received recently, while unscratched, have unplayable sections of video which cause my player (Samsung BDP1600) to freeze. I wasn't sure if it's the player or the discs, but none of the movies I've purchased have given me grief.
I've been getting BR's since January and haven't had a problem yet. As an aside, for a company that sends millions of cheap plastic discs through the clunky mail system everyday, Netflix has a pretty low failure ratio of their discs. I used to have more problems renting discs from the store.
They are not fragile nor are they structurally inferior to standard dvds.
I've gone round and round on AVS with people saying the same thing. I had 7 of 8 cracked Blu-rays with Netflix before I canceled that part of the service. I have never, ever received a cracked DVD. I don't give a rat's ass what the Blu-ray specifications are, they are obviously more prone to damage than DVDs.
I've got a Netflix distribution center here in town @Taliskan: Do you know which netflix distribution center is sending most of your discs and if so which one is it and how far away is it. I'm curious whether it's a local dist center issue, a local post office issue, or what.
My dist center is more or less in town so I get my discs next day and undamaged for the most part. I've had a couple of DVDs I've had to send back (some unreadable, some with crack from edge or center), but not BRDs and I'm wondering if it's because I have a good dist center or post office handling things. I've seen discussions of this and it seems to be that some people will say they get 50% damaged BRDs and some will say they've never had any so I've got to assume that there is some variable that can be found to explain things.
@ludwigk: I love Netflix, so I switched to a blu-ray account when we bought our new Samsung LCD and blu-ray player. I have noticed cracked discs on new releases that JUST came out. This has happened twice now since I switched my account over in May.
I dislike my mailman -- I've had to call the post office twice to complain about him lodging mail in so hard that I need a box opener to get it out of my mailbox. Also, he misdelivers mail frequently. I've had angry neighbors bring me my mail and I've had to deliver neighbor's mail to them. The point being, I kind of just blamed the cracks on the mailman, but perhaps if enough people are experiencing this, it's an issue with the envelope being too flimsy for blu-ray discs? Or maybe it's more along the lines of bad postal service employees who don't give a damn when handling your mail? Any thoughts?
Just started Blu Ray on my Netflix subscription. Hope this isnt a problem that I encounter.
@normyk: There's a distribution center less than 50 miles from me in state, just a couple towns away. I haven't noticed too many cracks or scratches, but it is weird how twice now, a new blu-ray release that JUST came out, was cracked (not just scratched).
I'm curious as to whether they need to redesign the blu-ray envelope (to at least look different from the DVD one), or if mail carriers need to handle Netflix mail better. Just think how much business Netflix brings the US Postal service -- you'd think they could get special treatment just for that alone!
@Travishamockery: @Applekid: You both win my approval points for giving a scientific reply to a rant-ish comment. Hats off.
@Gilbert: Applekid and Travishamokery gave a great explanation about it up the thread.
Basically, they are harder and more scratch resistant, but do not react very well to tensile foces. The DVD being more flexible would just bend slightly and regain shape, but the blu ray, being harder, would crack, instead of yielding.
When Netflix raised the price for people who rent blu-rays I removed blu-ray from my account. A few weeks later I called to complain about the price hike and I wasnt happy with the answers i received so I voted with my $$ and I canceled my Netflix account for 2 months.
I have recently restarted it but I lowered it from 4 disks at a time down to 1 disk at a time. Mostly I just use it for instant view on Xbox Live.
When I did have blu-ray I received 2 disks in a span of 3 weeks that were broken. One of them was snapped in half. The other was really wierd. The data layers of the disk were seperated from the hardcoat and label side. I didnt even bother trying to play it because an unbalanced disk can kill a bd/dvd-rom realy quickly.
I wouldnt be surprised if the price hike was because of broken disk but honestly either way its BS. The movies pay for themselves really damn quick so Netflix should have taken the slight drop in profits in favor of its customers. They lost my money for a while and like I said I'm back but im paying over $20 less per month so they are losing that too...all because of a $1 price hike.
If an envelope redesign makes sense, Netflix is in a position to capture the benefits of doing it regardless of charging more for blu-ray disks. Customers bear very, very little cost of a disk breaking other than the slight inconvenience of waiting an extra day or so, and Netflix must buy a new disk. If this problem is real, Netflix will be forced, by its fiduciary duty to its shareholders, to fix the problem.
@Applekid: I believe I at one time revoked your heart for some unremembered infraction of my "This guy deserves a star" code. You just earned it back. Travishamockery got him one, too.
About 20 of my Blu-ray disks have arrived cracked yet, none of my friends' regular DVDs have ever been cracked. We all get our mail from the same post office.
Note that $1 was the original extra fee for blu-ray. In the same year the entire fee structure has been redone with the same claims of higher costs for blu-ray discs. http://blog.netflix.com/2009_03_01_archive.html
The majority of the 1,200 comments in response were negative.
We both canceled blu-ray access, and dropped our service level to 2 discs from 4.
You'll also see hundreds of comments about cracked disc problems which may have to do with the post office in your particular area and how they process DVDs/Blu-Ray discs.
@GMFish: I wonder how Netflix gets their movies. Do they come in retail boxes with discs in them (my assumption) or in big stacks? If they do come in boxes and it's somebody's job to sit there and pop discs from boxes I can see this causing a lot of center cracks, especially with BRD since it's (in theory) easier to crack. I've had a number of discs where I thought for sure it was going to break before I could get it off the stupid middle post. It would certainly explain how it would happen on a new release. If somebody is popping hundreds of discs one after another from some of these recalcitrant cases I'd bet on a solid crack rate.
@chris_d:
You'd need a dummy adapter for HD-DVDs, DVDs and CDs then, assuming the device accepts them all (some do).
And then people would moan about what a pain in the ass all these caddies are.
The caddy thing was tried a long time ago with CD-ROMs. It didn't catch on for a reason... :)
I'm such a Luddite. I still haven't gotten a blu-ray player or a Netflix account. Besides, it's more fun for the kids to go to Movie Trading Company to pick out the flick for Movie Night
@chris_d:
They are made with a protective case, it's just poorly designed and not sent out by Netflix because of the cost of shipping them.
I like these, similar to the MD: [jewelboxing.com] but still, the best solution is probably a cardboard sleeve.
Mom always said...we should've stuck with HD DVD!
@Applekid:
In fact if you bother to contact the movie's distributor, they will replace the disc for you if you send in the broken disc and pay for return shipping and handling. With Disney I believe it's about $6 to get a disc replaced. It's not free, but it's also not a money-maker for the company.
Ohhh HDVD, how I mourn your death.