Airline Passengers Bill Of Rights Lurches Down Congressional Runway
Tomorrow, a Senate committee will hold a hearing on legislation that grants passengers the right to deplane if their plane is delayed on the runway for more than 3 hours. The legislation will also require that airlines provide water, food, and bathroom facilities during delays. If passed, it will be ignored by Delta.
(Photo: smcgee)
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I remember when Delta's slogan was "Delta gets you there". That was a horrible slogan. Then they added "with care" at the end. That wasn't much better.
@tbax929: Better than "Delta may or may not get into the air"...which wasn't a real slogan, but was truthful.
I know I flied United a few weeks ago, and my flight from Denver to Los Angeles was HEAVILY overbooked - the waiting list was over 40 people long. (This was the day before the Michael Jackson memorial in Los Angeles.)
United was looking for volunteers to take a later flight and their compensation was a free round trip ticket on a future flight, which seems quite fair for being at the airport an extra two or three hours. If I wasn't in a rush to go home, I would have nabbed that in a heartbeat.
Wait, I have to be granted *the right* to leave a plane? Fuck that, I'll leave when I damn well please.
@lannister80: You really won't. These aren't planes sitting at the gate; even if you're willing to commit the federal crime of overpowering the cabin attendant to open the door, you're going to have quite the drop to the tarmac, which has been lethal. Then you'll be a loose unauthorized person among taxiing aircraft.
@almightytora: Sure it seemed fair but try to use that future round trip flight and see how smoothly it goes.
Sorry I sound cynical, I have been burned too many times :(
@dohtem: Agreed. The number of restrictions on the free flight coupons is daunting. It's easier get a voucher for $X and then use it on what you want.
@floraposte: Don't forget all the fines. If you're lucky enough for the slide to inflate, you'll have to pay a fine for repacking that too.
Oh, and let's hope there isn't some trigger-happy Federal Marshall on board who might put a few slugs in you if he thinks you're going for the cabin. Since you're on the ground, its less likely, but you never know.
@lannister80: While I agree with you in principle, trying to leave on your own, after you've been struck on the ground a few hours without food or water could get you put in handcuffs.
It's a damn shame that the government has to draft such a bill of rights.
Btw...trying to leave the plane during the actual flight isn't recommended either.
you're going to have quite the drop to the tarmac, which has been lethal.I don't see how that's a bad thing in this particular case... Some people just have trouble dealing with authority, no matter what point you make.
@ARP: It seems those vouchers are hard to use too.
... Aaron received several vouchers and an upgrade as compensation from United Airlines. Unfortunately, the vouchers and upgrades proved so difficult to use that he has given up and is now publicly vowing never to fly United Airlines again.
ok - so you're leaving a snowy city for Mexico or some other sunny fun place.
It's icy, snowy, you have a minor mechanical at the gate, you queue up, get deiced, have to wait because only one runway is open.
Life sucks because you've been sitting in a plane at the airport for two hours and 40 minutes.
You're in line for departure and some ninny decides he or she has cramps and can't tolerate it anymore. -- so the plane heads back to the gate.
I don't care to be held hostage for eight hours, but that's an overlooked scenario that could come of this.
Patrick Smith addressed that in Salon's "ask a pilot" a while back.
I think the airline lawyers will find an easy loopholes to any rules that are created. Part of the reason you often sit on the tarmac now is so that you've offically departed on time.
Here's the column. (From November '08)
Here's his much better worded take:
To be clear, all airlines should have contingency plans for storms, mechanical breakdowns and other situations that cause delays, and there is no excuse for keeping hundreds of people confined on a jetliner against their will. I am not excusing any carrier for doing so. But, as I pointed out in 2007, because delays are so complex and fickle, enforcement of an arbitrary time limit is bound to cause more problems than it solves.
Returning a plane to the gate is not as simple as pulling a bus over to the curb and dropping a few people off. There are security issues to deal with, fuel, flight plans, air traffic control slot times (which are prone to change without warning), and a host of logistical challenges (gate availability, gate staffing, etc).
When we discussed this issue back in 2006, I painted a possible scenario to illustrate why this was a bad idea. It went something like this: Imagine you are on a delayed airplane going from New York to Chicago. You have been parked on the taxiway for the past two hours. Your assigned wheels-up time is only a half-hour away, but because the new, federally mandated time limit has just elapsed, the crew is required to ask if anybody wishes to get off. Imagine now that one person raises his hand.
There are 150 people on the plane, but only one of them wants to leave? Well, the rule is the rule, and so the pilots ask for clearance back to the terminal. Using portable stairs won't work because the guy has two suitcases somewhere below, and security regulations require they have to come off.
There are no vacant gates at the moment, and waiting for one to open takes half an hour. Then, the ground staff needs to locate the correct luggage bin in order to pull the guy's suitcases. Twenty minutes there.
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Together this will entail a new weight-and-balance manifest, and possibly, because the flight will miss its wheels-up time, a whole new flight plan. And, oh, missing that time means you're assigned a new one, and lo and behold it's another hour away.
What initially was less than a three-hour delay has now become a five-hour delay. Throw in the need to de-ice, or the possibility of the crew's running up against duty time limits, and it's easily worse.
A Passenger Bill of Rights? In some respects it's a good idea, but be careful what you wish for.
@Don't take anything aaron8301 says seriously:
I totally agree with you're being a spelling kvetch!
I just can't understand people that don't know the difference between "lose" or "loose"!
And the same for garage sale ads with "children's cloths" for sale!
@dohtem:
I got one of those United vouchers & had no problems with using it.
The only weird part was that I either had to mail it to an address in Detroit within two weeks of booking the ticket or take it to the United counter at O'Hare. Since O'Hare is a simple L train ride for me, I took that route to avoid the voucher getting lost in the mail.
@lannister80: No, you will not. Aside from the reasons others have listed, you do not have a right to freak out other passengers and keep them on the plane for hours on end as the plane is searched for explosives and everyone is detained for questioning.
@katstermonster: I was teasing Guzik because that's wrong in his/her post. It's the inevitable irony when you complain about errors--you'll always make one yourself!
This will be another example of government solving the problem with bills written by lobbyists. The only winners will be the politicians who can say they fixed the problem come election time.
@jamesdenver: I like Patrick Smith all right, but I think he's largely an ardent fan of the status quo in any situation. Yes, there are possible problems here, and I don't know if this is a workable solution or not. But the airlines are currently counting on their being no penalty for these kinds of delay--the most egregious example, I still think, being the Detroit fiasco where Northwest allowed planes to take off knowing that there were already planes at the destination that had waited five hours and showed no signs of being able to let passengers off. (Ultimately, more than one plane had passengers stuck on there for hours in the double digits.)
I agree it's more complicated than is being considered in public, but I'm not prepared to toss the idea simply because it could cause difficulties as well. It's early days anyway, since it's just the Senate--who knows what the thing would look like in its ultimate version?
@Greasy Thumb Guzik: Maybe 'loose' was correct. One was to permanently get rid of luggage is to let it loose mid flight.
@tbax929: delta gets you there with care would've been so much cooler if they painted all their jets with these:
@Greasy Thumb Guzik: Did you have trouble booking the ticket? I did that ORD too and it took 20 minutes for them to figure out how to buy a ticket on the spot. I had to go to a weird corner of the baggage claim area.
Good points about why set-in-stone time limits aren't the answer. Better to require that, when stuck on an airplane for an extended period, people should have access to bathrooms, water, food, and--most important--information. People are much more likely to relax if they know what is going on.
Years ago (pre-9/11) I was on a plane that spent 3+ hours on the tarmac. The pilot explained that there was bad weather en route but he didn't want to lose our place in line for when it cleared, because we'd get there faster ultimately than if we went back to the gate. We were invited to get up and stretch our legs, children were invited to see the cockpit (pre-9/11, like I said), and flight attendants offered soft drinks and snacks from the galley (so cart wouldn't block aisle for leg-stretching) for anyone who wanted something. As a result, although we all wanted to get going, we weren't mad at anyone but the weather.
Why do they even bother passing this limp piece of legislation? I can hear the airlines laughing now. If lawmakers had to fly commercial airlines COACH everywhere they would care. As it is, the airlines own Congress.
Your insinuating that people actually flew from Denver to LA to go to the MJ Memorial?
@ARP: I've also had a great TICKETING (not flying) experience with American Airlines using a voucher. I had to cancel a non-refundable ticket to Australia and they gave me a voucher for $XXXX in the same amount, less minimal fees, as the original fare. To use the voucher, you have to reserve an itinerary online, then call customer service to validate the itinerary, then mail the vouchers to Texas. But, within ten working days I had tickets in-hand and went to Prague instead. It was actually pretty easy and no restrictions at all. One of the few times I was actually pleased with an American carrier's handling of something...ANYTHING.
@jamesdenver: Speaking as someone with moderate to servere IBS problems, I can assure you that many of those 'ninnies' of which you speak have legitimate medical conditions that make it virtually impossible for them to be trapped somewhere for 3 hours without access to a bathroom. And it stuns me that of all the fuckknucklery that has to take place before it gets to that point - overloaded airports, lying airlines, poor planning - you'd blame the person with a medical problem for ruining your day. He or she *decides* they have cramps? Are you thick? "Gee, let's see, this whole getting-to-my-destination thing seems kind of lame... How about some agonizing cramps and a quite literally uncontrollable urge to shit to liven up my day? Plus I get to inconvenience an entire plane full of people! Awesome!"
And before you whip out the "well then don't fly" smart-mouthed response, trust me, we wouldn't if we could avoid it. But we can't avoid it, and I don't see how you - or anyone else - could see it unreasonable to ask airlines to accommodate such passengers (plus parents with young children, etc.) after a few hours sitting on the tarmac. Otherwise, why bother with bathrooms on the plane at all?
What I think is the problem is that the planes are getting stuck in the first place. What should have been the rule is that an airplane cannot leave the gate until a takeoff slot is lined up for it or will be available for it within, say, 20 minutes. Have the aircraft wait at the gate until then. Then have a segregated waiting area that the plane can drop off the passengers at if security really is such a concern or the conditions can not be met.
How can you automatically assume/state that Delta will ignore the congressional law, just because their past record shows that they don't give a shit?
@I Love New Jersey: But this is the Obama administration. I thought they were impervious to all the shady wheelings-and-dealings of the Bush administration... Nancy Pelosi just CAN'T be the tool of the corporations - she's a Democrat.
/end sarcasm/
@maines19: I've been in many LONG takeoff queues at JFK ("Good news from the cabin: we're in line for take-off! Bad news: we're number 98 in line!") and in those cases, even in more recent years, the flight crew was usually very good about keeping us informed, giving us honest estimates, and being cool about cell phones / electronics / bathroom use while we were still really far back in line. (When we got to the top 20 they generally made us settle down.)
As a result, those many flights were less irritating than some flights with much shorter tarmac waits.
@jamesdenver: "You're in line for departure and some ninny decides he or she has cramps and can't tolerate it anymore. -- "
Go eat some bad fish and then when you get crampy, I'll just tell you to hold it, you ninny. I'm sure you'll love that.
@pecan 3.14159265: The (freaked out) passengers would be KEPT on the plane for hours on end while it's being searched for explosives?!?!?! Yeah, that'd freak ME out!
Hey now, I like Delta they give me cookies :) of course they did loose my luggage (permanently) on a direct flight... but they paid for everything in the end.