Arthur, a member of the NRA, received a promotional DVD out of the blue about six months ago. As we’ve discussed before and as Arthur points out, if you’re sent something that you never ordered, you don’t have to pay for it, return it, or acknowledge it. The NRA said as much in their letter to Arthur.
Months later, however, he started receiving notices that asked him to either pay for the DVD or return it.
The National Rifle Association sent unordered DVDs to its members. It correctly explained that since the DVDs were unordered, its members could return them (post paid), keep them, give them away, or if any wished, pay for them. Of course, they hoped that many would pay for them, and sign up to buy additional DVDs in the series.
As you can see in my letters to them, the problem came in subsequent mailings. What appeared to be bills arrived with instructions to return the DVDs or pay for them. Since these were sent well after the original mailing, many people would have forgotten what was originally said. I’m not a lawyer, but I believe such billing is illegal under Title 39, United States Code, Sect. 3009 subsection (c).
I don’t want to (literally) make it a federal case, but I’m sending the information to you in the hopes that the light of publicity will cause them to take the right corrective actions.
Arthur even wrote a pretty clear letter to the NRA alerting them to what looks like deceptive marketing practices on their behalf:
You are allowing your reputation to be sullied by TN Marketing, LLC.
About a half a year back, I received an unsolicited American Rifleman DVD. As it was unsolicited, there was no requirement for me to return it, pay for it, or even to acknowledge it. The letter that came with it recognized that, and said that if I didn’t want to buy or return it, that I could pass it along to someone else. It went so far as to say that I could “consider it a free gift.” So far, so good.
However, since that time, I’ve received several mailings from TN Marketing requiring that I either pay for or return the DVD. These mailings were made long enough after the original one that most people would have already discarded the original letter explaining that there is a third option of doing nothing. Those who took the original letter’s suggestion and gave the DVD to someone else would then be being billed for something they could no longer return. I consider this to be deceptive and close to fraud. I hope that this strategy is that of TN Marketing rather than that of the NRA, itself.
I expect to soon see a letter sent to all of us who did not originally pay for or return the DVD, including those who paid only after being unfairly (and illegally?) dunned by TN Marketing. It should apologize for the misrepresentation that TN Marketing made under your name and restate what was in the first mailing: You would like us to pay, but there is no requirement to pay for or return the DVD. Those who paid only after being wrongly dunned should be given an option to ask for their money back.
Unfortunately, the NRA’s response was simply to take Arthur off their video distribution list and add his name to their Do Not Promote list. This prompted Arthur to send an even clearer letter to them:
You did not read my previous letter carefully enough. I am not complaining about frustration. I am complaining about illegal practices by either the NRA or a company performing work for the NRA.
If the NRA bilks its own members, how can we be expected to believe anything else it says? If the NRA prospers by this unethical act, how are we to believe that it won’t do worse in the future? If I don’t do what I can to correct a wrong being done in my name (as a member of the NRA), am I not complicit?
Therefore, if you cannot convince me that you are taking this seriously, conducting your own investigation, and contacting all who paid the illegal dunning notices, I will have little choice. I’ll have to either go public with the information or make formal complaints with the FTC and the Postal Inspector.
If you’re a member of the NRA and received this unordered DVD, remember that no matter what subsequent notices or bills you receive, you’re absolutely not obliged to respond.
[Note: this post is about the FTC Mail Order Rule and a possible violation of it by a marketing firm hired by a special interest group. It's also about the group's apparent unwillingness to look into the problem and fix it. And it's about the Mail Order Rule in general and how it works. It's NOT about the NRA's existence or mission, however, so please don't derail the comments with political fighting or jabs.]
(Photo: NightRPStar)
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I’ve gotten the exact same sort of thing from the Smithsonian. I subscribe to their Air and Space magazine, and a few months ago I received a “free” dvd documentary about the B-52 in the mail from them. It was accompanied by a letter asking me to pay or return it, as well as having one small line saying that I could keep it for free. Since then I’ve received two more letters asking me to pay for it, while still covertly saying that it is ACTUALLY free.
Exactly the reason I dropped my membership. Our gun club encourages membership but I don’t put up with crap like this.
@bitslammer: Ditto. I had a fully paid-up life membership in the NRA and dropped it because they repeatedly sent me solicitations for additional donations that were disguised as bills. This has been a tactic of theirs for years.
@PatriciaPapus: I’ve been a life member for years and haven’t rec’d any such mailings!
@bitslammer: I became a life member many years ago. They simply would not stop calling me, asking me to pimp out friends and such. I explained that anyone I knew who wanted to be a member either already was a member or knew how to become one, and they persisted. They sent me mailings for books, and I had to put a stop to that as well. They’d call me at all hours asking for donations for this or that.
I finally had to call them up and demand that they immediately cease all contact with me, or I’d have my lawyer contact them.
Looking back, I wish I hadn’t become a member, much less a life member. I like what they do for our rights as citizens, but I don’t like what they think they have to do to feed that money machine. They have an air of sleaze about them last few years…
@wee0x1B: All political groups (left and right) are like that. If you’ve ever donated to any particular cause, suddenly you get a slew of mail about all sorts of crazy causes.
@ARP: Oh, I realize that. But given what a life membership costs, I should only have to ask them to stop once, and it should be handled immediately. It’s like I finally told them: I gave you a lot of money, and it’s all I intend to give, so please stop. It took the threat of legal action to get them to do that and it permanently sullied my impression of the NRA.
I’ll never, ever recommend someone join the NRA.
@wee0x1B: This is odd…I’m a graduated life member (or whatever they call it where I pay $25/quarter until I hit Life Member), and I’ve not gotten this DVD or anything like it…however, I have started to dump their emails right into the spam folder…no, NRA, I don’t need wine advice from you.
Also, reading America’s 1st Freedom on the Metra is an amusing sociological experiment. I’ve gotten nasty looks, given a thumbs-up (really!), been told I’m a gun nut (I guess that’s what I get for living in Skokie and being an NRA member), and even asked by my seatmate if could have it when I was done b/c they wanted to read the article they were reading over my shoulder. I should note that I don’t read it to get reactions, it’s just that the 30 minutes a day I get from Olgivie to Davis is the only time right now I get to read whatever I want without {wife | newborn | yorkies | friends | housework} demanding attention.
From my reading it seems that this is not the direct fault of the NRA, but thier marketing partner that send out the DVD. I smell dirty business on thier part, riding the members of the NRA for money.
I smell class action lawsuit! What about you?
@KreativeHitman13: I agree that it’s the marketing firm at fault directly, but you have to be careful who you allow to market for you, since it’s your name on the material that goes out. Once the NRA was made aware of this practice, they should put a stop to it.
Who is going to be the first to post “You’ll have to pry this DVD from my cold-dead hands!!!!”?
@backbroken:
@backbroken: I’ll grab a shovel!
@Skeetz:
Surely that’s a bit too large of a tool for prying! Try a bolster chisel instead.
@Jacob Morgan: Someone’s gotta dig up the grave..
@backbroken: You are!
@backbroken:
Argh. You beat me to it!
+AK-47
@backbroken:
Wolverines!!!!!!!
Well, I sent a link to every contact group in the dropdown menu of their Contact Us page to help the NRA become aware of the awesome publicity it’s receiving for treating its members so poorly. Maybe there is a human somewhere behind the website.
@kduhtoe: Ok, so he’s human, just apathetic. This is the response I received after emailing NRA.
“Thank you for contacting us.
I wasn’t able to access the site because of a slow internet browser. However, the people who receive the videos do not have to pay for them, and if they contact us, we’ll gladly take them off of the video list.
Thank you for your support!
Best regards,
Mike
NRA Member Communications”
“Unfortunately, the NRA’s response was simply to take Arthur off their video distribution list and add his name to their Do Not Promote list.“
In the mind of the NRA, Authur was an annoyance who was attempting to interfere with a revenue stream. It only makes sense to shut him up rather than to actually listen to him and solve his problem
And if Aurthur is mad now, just wait until TN Marketing hires a debt collector and reports the so called debt to the credit agencies.
@GMFish: If that does happen, hopefully we’ll hear about it here, so the NRA can be shamed into doing what it should have from the start: taking responsibility and firing this shady firm.
@GMFish:
I doubt that will happen, I’m fairly sure they know they can’t collect anything for this DVD, it’s just a case of sending bills out and hoping some people will pay them (which I’m sure a few will)
I was about to write exactly what @bitslammer said. I canceled my membership years ago due to incessant phone calls and junk mail while I was a member.*
The NRA isn’t the only organization to pull stunts like this though. A very benign “woodworker’s guild” did the same thing with a DVD they sent me.
* (Well, ok, that and their stance that “an employer`s private property interests do not trump a person`s right to have a firearm available for self-defense”)
@robdew2: @Voyou_Charmant: We don’t need militias to enforce our well regulations round here.
NRA don’t “bill” people, TN Marketing “bills” people
@HomersBrain: …but it’s NRA’s name on it. If they didn’t know what a scumbag firm they’d hired, I could see that. Once they know, though, it’s their responsibility to take care of it.
@takes_so_little: whoosh, that one went right over your head, didn’t it!
@seattleperson: Dang! You’re right! I would’ve gotten it if it had said “NRA don’t kill people, people bill people.”
@HomersBrain: Well done! That genuinely made me laugh.
I’m a little annoyed at the dismissive attitude of the NRA here. I have been thinking more and more of joining lately, but if this is their attitude, forget it. I’ll stick with local gun clubs.
@Shadowfire: Just curious, how does one benefit from an NRA membership? What’s in it for you besides possibly free DVDs?
@Homerjay here for OxyClean!: Supporting an organization that I -mostly- agree with? Discounts on firing range memberships, and sometimes on ammo or accessories? I mean, there are benefits.
@Shadowfire:
There’s also supplemental insurance for one’s firearms ($1000 included). They send you one of their magazines, for better or worse. Even though they send out tons of spam (I’m 25 years old, why would I need discount long term care insurance?), you occasionally get something useful like raffle entries (I once won a skinning knife and saw set in one of them). In many of the less gun-friendly states, most private ranges will require an NRA membership to be eligible to join them.
@Homerjay here for OxyClean!: It’s got a political lobby that will push for at least one cause you support, for one thing. Plus you can sometimes get NRA discounts at gun stores (or so I have heard; I’m neither a member nor a gun owner). You get more for your money than you do donating to a political party though, certainly.
@TheyCallMeStacey_GitEmSteveDave: They retracted that. They are still selling scrap. It came into question about possible live explosive munitions, but they are still selling.
Oh, and the NRA is being pushy. They really need to learn that just because I support them doesn’t mean I’m balls deep for them and only them.
@ClutchDude: Thanks for the info. That means Alex Jones was lying after the ban. Yet another feather in his cap.
The sooner we get unlicensed DVDs out of the hands of our children, the sooner they stop killing each other with them.
@Smashville: unlicensed DVDs don’t bill people, people bill people.
Assuming that this problem is with the marketing group and not the NRA, why?
You’re doing something sketchy against a group of people that have guns, aren’t afraid to use them and actively campaign for access to bigger guns.
Seems like a bad group to target to me…
@Ryan Millner: That’s why I’m surprised at the NRA’s reaction too. I would have thought that a pro-gun organization would bring the pain against a company trying to rip of their members.
So has anyone contacted TN Marketing, LLC? I assume they have an address where they want money sent to…
@fantomesq: Contact info: [www.tnmarketing.com]
sales@tnmarketing.com
I received one of these DVD’s as a member of the NRA.
Having seen the postal rule before I just put the mail to one side.
About 3 weeks ago i received a “Bill” from these clowns.
Needless to say it went in the trash.
Hmm they haven’t sent my friend or I anything yet so guess it didn’t go out to everyone but I’d be ticked too if they did this to me.
How about some truth in headlines by Consumerist.com?
“NRA sells membership list to scammer” is truthful.
“Is NRA trying to trick its members … ?” is misleading at best.
I am an NRA member and supporter, and yes, this kind of crap bothers me. But this is a failure to properly vet buyers of the membership lists, and not a scam on the NRA’s part.
@kbarrett: Well, given the NRA’s apparent unwillingness to address the ripping off being done in their name, don’t they become liable at some point?
@kbarrett: Yeah but the truth is nowhere near as sensationalistic and does not generate the page views…
@kbarrett: Except that the NRA has done nothing to address the scam or scammer and has actively ignore attempts on the part of one of its members to bring this issue up with them.
@kbarrett: So someone selling their child to a pimp is absolved of responsibility? The NRA precisely knew what their agent would do. If not then they’re incompetent and their leadership should be sacked.
They wanted plausible deniability while at the same time being able to take advantage of the overwhelming gullibility of their membership.
@kbarrett:
What would Charlton Heston say?
@kbrrtt: nd th NR nvr nggs n fr mngrng r msrprsnttn?
@ARP: Yes, they do, but that’s beside the point. Once they have been made aware the scam is happening, they are as guilty as the scammers until they make things right.
@takes_so_little: Agreed. I guess my thought is that if an organization is willing to engage in such behaviour with its members, that continuing that approach to its marketing/collection practices isn’t so crazy.
@takes_so_little:
I agree.
Gunbloggers are starting to trackback this Consumerist post as well.
Maybe we can shame the NRA into quitting its practice of flogging it’s member list to any a-hole with ready cash.
You can have my illegal dvd payment when you unwrap my cold cheap hands from my checkbook!
Promotional DVD’s don’t rip people off, national organizations do.
@Trai_Dep: So I guess we’re ignoring the note at the end of the post, then? Or was that a later addition?
They can pry his DVD our of his cold, dead, hands!
@Galactica: I win, I’m first!
@Galactica: So many things wrong here. You’re not first and you shouldn’t be saying you’re first, even for a witty quote that 2 others beat you to. It’s not 2001 anymore.
@ARP: I’m first!
To be disemvowled that is. Because being a smart-ass for the sake of it never flies here.
Dvd’s don’t kill credit scores, marketing agencies kill credit scores.
On a serious note though, by being on their membership rolls, does the law protect you from unsolicited DVS.? Its like joining a book of the month club. You belong to the club and they send you books. You either keep them and buy them or send them back. I wonder if somewhere in their membership’s fine print they’re correct. Kinda like being on the Do Not Call list… if they’re a company you do business with, they’re allowed to contact you even if you’re on the do not call list. Or perhaps since the NRA is a political action group, normal laws do not apply to them, such as what they’re allowed to do during elections. *shrug*
@John Henschen: The NRA is not a DVD Club, so I don’t think that the Book Club analogy can be reasonably applied.
@Chris Knight:
I don’t think so either, and even if you are a member, they can’t say (or the marketing company can’t say) “you don’t have to pay for this” and then send you a bill.
@John Henschen:
I disagree. Chris is right that the NRA is not a DVD club. Admittedly, they make some of their funds through the sales of DVDs, videos, magazines and books, but they are listed as a non-profit organization and anything they send out unsolicited would have to be considered unordered and therefore has no requirement for payment.
This becomes a clear case of mail fraud by the marketer and perhaps even by the NRA itself if it doesn’t investigate and correct this behavior.
I am an NRA member and have received this DVD. I threw it away, but then was worried I would be charged. I eventually forgot about it and after 2 letters they stopped asking for payment so I forgot all about it. I do think it’s messed up though, if anyone has a way to be added to that “do not promote” list electronically please post the link!
My question is: If these people don’t pay, is there a chance that this bill can be sent to collection, or show up in their credit report?
That’s really the only thing I would be concerned with.
@DaBull: This would be my concern with the situation. They were sleezy enough to try to get someone to pay for an unsolicited gift, it is a short step to put them into collections.
Since the NRA seemed to not care at all that members are being scammed either they condone it or they don’t care that the marketing company they hired is doing it. The OP should complain to the state Atty General and possibly the postal service? IIRC the postal service is involved in policing these free gift scams.
I personally don’t consider the NRA to be anything more than a political scaremongering arm of the GOP.
@bhmn: Ys, bt w n th lft hv r shr s wll. t’s vry ffctv mns f gttng dntns.
Bt gr n th sbstnc, th nd t stp thr mrktng cmpny r fc th cnsqncs. thnk th CSR ntntnlly ctd stpd s tht thy dn’t hv t dmt tht thy “knw” bt th prctcs.
@bhmn:
Thy rlly rn’t s Rpblcn s mst ppl thnk, thgh Rpblcns r mr lkly n vrg t hld pstns tht th NR spprts. n th 2008 lctns thy ndrsd th Dmcrtc ncmbnt n my cngrssnl dstrct (n Txs).
I can’t believe the NRA would do this! What a horrible group. This here is just proof positive that they are………… psych!
If you hired a firm that you later found out was behaving badly, even illegally, in your name, what would you do? What do you consider your responsibility in such a situation?
@takes_so_little: I would fire them and contact all parties wrong by said firm to personally apologize, in hopes they would remain clients.
@takes_so_little: I’d send them a free DVD, with no cost or obligation, but we’d appreciate an ‘appology accepted’ donation!
Earth to NRA: Your members are armed. It is imperative (in the literal Darwinian sense) that you not piss them off too much.
The same sort of thing happened to me with a NASCAR DVD I received some years ago. They sent the disk stating nothing need to be done and no requirement to return, then several months later received a billing notice for the disk. Interestingly, we’d left the package completely intact and all I did was send a copy of the letter with the ‘no payment, no return’ statement highlighted.
No more complaints from them; also no more free DVDs.
That’s what you get for being a member of the NRA, enjoy your DVD.
Maybe the NRA hired NETFLIX to sent it
I received one of these mailings and it was on home defense methods. I never paid for the DVD, thus telling them I didn’t want any more, and I never had any more DVDs or bills sent since…
p.s. There sure is a lot of ignorance being voiced here about the NRA (not related to this DVD campaign). Sigh.
@ZukeZuke: True. But you knew when the NRA was involved, people would let politics sidetrack them from the CS angle. It would have been the same if, say, the DNC had pulled this. “Of course they did it, them’s COMMIE tactics, and they’s a bunch a commies!”
@takes_so_little: @skehl: Smooth.
I usually just get ahold of their fax numbers and make a black construction paper loop through my fax machine, then call late at night.
Cnsdrng tht szbl mnrty f th NR’s mmbrshp s cnvncd tht BM WNTZ R GNZ!!!, prdct ntld sccss f th NR’s prdtry prctcs.
@Trai_Dep:
Congrats, two points that prove you have no idea what you are talking about. In one post even! Congrats!
@st: Y hnstly dn’t blv mnrty f gn wnrs DSN’T blv bm wnts t rstrct gn wnrshp ftr ll th lws h vtd fr nd sm thr scry cncdncs, lk th fd n lngr sllng scrp brss? f vn N prsn blvs tht, t’s stll mnrty.
@st: Tk ths prtn f th vd “Th bm Dcptn” frm nt jb lx Jns. w s gng t sy Rght Wng, bt s h pnts t, thr s n rght r lft, tht’s ll prt f th dcptn, s bm, Bsh, Clntn, tc… r cntrlld by th NW! thnk ths prvs Y dn’t knw wht y r tlkng bt.
+ Wtch vd
@ThyCllMStcy_GtmStvDv: Fnny, th sm ppl tht ntlly wh sd ppnnts f th n fly lst mthds htd mrk nd wntd th trrrsts t wn, sddnly hv prblm wth sng th lst? Hw cld tht b?
@st:
t’s lwys nlghtnng whn smn psts “n y r wrng”, thn gs n t prvd 0 fcts bt wht thy r wrng bt. Ths hystr f bm wntng gns s mst lkly drmmd p by th NR nd gn mnfctrrs t mk $.
@Trai_Dep: (Keeping in mind Chris’ above note, I want to reinforce this isn’t about the NRA’s general mission or existence, but the gullibility of some of their membership, and how it might extend to a sleazy marketing firm hired by the NRA. And to pose the question, Why would an organization approve of a venture that seems to take advantage of their members?)
@Trai_Dep:
@Trai_Dep: Never said I was an NRA member, and even so, I wouldn’t do anything. There’s very few organizations out there that a person can support, completely guilt-free (ACLU supporting NAMBLA comes to mind). You have to take the good with the bad.
@HurtsSoGood: I perceive a threat from no one — I simply like exercising my rights. I like exercising my first amendment rights all the time, too! If I go through my entire life without ever having to fire a gun in defense, I can probably die happy.
@Voyou_Charmant: That’s not what the 2nd amendment means, and the Supreme Court agrees. It gives the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms — even Obama agrees with this. (Now, this is different from the right to carry arms concealed — nothing in the Constitution guarantees that.)
@Tr_Dp: Lvng n L nd bng flly wr f bm’s vtng rcrd n 2nd mndmnt lgsltn, m wllng t tk hm t hs wrd tht h n lngr dsrs t frthr rstrct tht rght.
f crs, blvd hm whn h sd tht h’d tk pblc fnncng fr hs prsdntl cmpgn, t.
@HPwr: r y cnfsng bm wth McCn. McCn s th n tht sd th pblc fnncng t grnt ln. ls h sd h wld s th pblc systm f th Rpblcn grd t crtl s f Lbbyng grps, 527′s, tc. Thy sd n, s bm sd n t pblc fnncng.
[www.nytms.cm]
BT- Th NR s lk ny thr pltcl grp- thy s fr nd msrprsnttn t gt mny frm ppl. Why wld y thnk t wld stp n thr mssgng nd nt xtnd nt thr prtclr mthds.
@RP: N, ‘m nt cnfsng thm t ll. McCn nd bm bth pldgd tht thy wld tk pblc fnncng. McCn tk t, bm “chngd hs mnd.”
[nln.wsj.cm]
knw bm’s vtng rcrd. dn’t nd th NR t tll m tht h hs nvr sn nt-2nd mndmnt lgsltn tht h ddn’t spprt.
@HiPwr: Wait you are complaining that a politician didnt use taxpayer money to fund his election?
REALLY? Thats what you are doing?
@Jim Topoleski: When a candidate makes a big deal of reducing the influence of private funding to campaigns and pledges to take public financing to combat it and then does a 180 when he realizes that he can raise more privately (reduction of private funding influence be damned), then yes I call “hypocrite” and complain.
@HPwr: qck nlyss f hs dnr rcrds wll tll y tht mjr blk f th mny cm frm smll dnrs (dntng 1000 r lss), nd nt crprt dnrs mkng hg cntrbtns.
@MostlyHarmless: *sigh* Another political snipe job i got into.
Must.Exercise.More.Control.
@MstlyHrmlss: Ys, nd 200 Chns bs bys dntd $1000 t Hllry’s cmpgn. ll ths shthds r slzy. Y wnt t by nt thr spl, g fr t. ‘m cync nd dmt t.
@Jm Tplsk: lv t whn tht hppns. Ppl wh cry bldy mrdr vr gvrnmnt sng th mny t crt jbs gn cry bldy mrdr vr sm gy (nt tht t lst N f th cntndrs wll ls) chss nt t s mllns n tx pyr mny fr cs tht hd 48% chnc f flng.
n sd nt ( cknwldg th fct tht mst’fscl cnsrvtvs’ r nt nhngd ntjbs) ls lvd whn lgc bts ppl n th ss. Cs n pnt:
Whck: nyn wh ds nt hnd vr vdnc f trrst ctvty t FB s trrst.
Whck: bm s hlf hmn hlf clth trrst.
Whck: Srh Pln knws h s trrst. Sh hs vdnc.
Brd Gy: S, y r syng tht sh KNW hs trrrst, nd hd vdnc, bt stll dd nt nfrm th thrts, nd lt hm bcm th prsdnt. S y mn yr ptrn snt f whcknss s trrst hrslf, cnsprng gnst th rl mrkns t pt knwn trrst n th hghst ffc n th lnd?
Whck: …
Whck: WHR S TH BRTH CRTFCT NBM???
@HPwr: Tht rtcl dsn’t sy whr h prmsd t s Pblc Fnncng wtht qlfctn. t’s gnrlly cpy f my rtcl tht sd h’s b n fvr f t vn thy cld rch grmnt wth rpblcns n s f tsd grps s prxs.
Bsds, why r y n fvr f txpyr fndd lctns? r y cmm? D y ht rch ppl? r y nly fr th 2nd mndmnt bt gnst th 1st? Why d y ht r frdms?
@RP: ‘m nt n fvr f pltcns bllshttng m. Th Dmcrts d t, th Rpblcns d t, thy ll d t. Y sm t ccpt t; dn’t.
@HPwr: nd snc h’s bn prsdnt, h’s sgnd NT lgsltn bll tht nw LLWS gns n ntnl prks. Hw ‘bt thm ppls?
@katstermonster: The bill he signed was actually the CARD bill, which overhauled Credit Card policy in this country. The bill was attached as a rider. Hardly a ringing endorsement of second amendment rights, though, technically, you are correct.
@Travishamockery: True, true…I’m sure many people thought he’d veto CARD over a rider like that. And he didn’t. That’s a pretty pro-gun bill, regardless.
@katstermonster: Correct, he didn’t veto a bill that did 50 million other things besides allowing guns into national parks.
@HiPwr: Like I said…that’s a pretty pro-gun rider in a lot of people’s eyes. For example:
‘”The NRA is basically taking over the House and Senate,” said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., a leading gun-control supporter. “If the NRA wins, the American people are going to be the ones who lose.”‘ via MSNBC
It’s lucky it got through Congress + Obama, unscathed. For the love of pete, I lean more pro-gun than anti-gun. Why must you shoot down (pun intended) the sparkling ray of hope from a man who largely avoided the topic throughout his campaign?
@katstermonster: I feel like I missed the party. It’s a hurricane of consonants up there! Man, Roz must be exhausted.
@Tr_Dp: Sdly ngh, ys. Thr’s szbl mnrty t thr, hwvr, tht smply lk njyng r rghts.
@mdmadph: As an NRA member, is there any way you can express your dissatisfaction to them on this? If a group I was affiliated with did this, I’d be quite annoyed/offended.
@mdmadph: Including the right to be full of shit, I presume. It’s one thing to fight for one’s rights. It’s quite another to perceive a threat to those rights where none exists. It’s called paranoia, a dangerous and crippling psychological disorder that requires medical attention.
@HurtsSoGood: +1,000 internets
@mdmdph: Y’r mmbr f wll rgltn mlt?
@mdmdph: nd y cntn t d s. N n s gng t tk yr prcs gns.
@Trai_Dep: (@everyone else too) I think this wins “Most Disemvowelled Comment Thread Ever” for all of Gawker.
@youbastid: i agree, ive never seen a thread so disemvoweled, no idea whats even going on at this point.
@youbastid: Honestly, that wasn’t the intent. I emphasized the sleaziness of the 3rd-party vendor & presumed gullibility of the target audience, but not the organization’s mission or controversies. Then for good measure immediately followed up with a clarification saying, Let’s follow Chris’ note to avoid this become a GUNZ4EVAH flame war.
It’s annoying, actually, that we can’t discuss certain topics without things going supernova (and no, pointing out an example of their membership being overly credulous isn’t fanning the flames, it’s pointing out their vulnerability to being scammed as the article described; I even replied to someone I thought was an NRA member on-topic and civilly).
The end result is that rabid supporters of the NRA are victimized (ironically by their own organization) because they fan the flames to 11 as a normal operating procedure when online.
@Trai_Dep: Add: it goes without saying that most NRA members aren’t rabid and are actually nice people.
/channeling Rodney King, post-riots
@Trai_Dep: Im not a virgin anymore! Were you a virgin before today’s “incident”?
I saw the notice at the bottom wayyyy too late.
@MostlyHarmless: I was a virgin! I feel kind of dirty. But in a good way. I can’t wait to get disemvoweled again!
I saw the notice. I flaunted it. Oh well.
@youbastid: Is there software that does this automatically, or is Roz going blind from deleting all the vowels manually?
Where do the deleted vowels all go, anyway? Are they used somewhere else to disemconsonant somebody’s comments?
Why am I whining like Andy Rooney anyway?
@scoosdad: I skipped reading those posts after I saw one. How hard is it to type a vowel?
@JuliB: You must be new here. Be sure to drop in a thread later and blame the OP.
@Smashville: +1
Granted, I was confused the first time I saw a disemvowelment, but there’s that handy little link at the end that explains it! Reading is fun!
Wll, gss th dtrs f Cnsmrst r ls NR mmbrs, snc thy r dsmvwllng ll nt-NR cmmts.
PS: svd y th trbl!
@krom: Hm, can’t read that. I’ll go ahead and assume it was a poem extolling the virtues of Barack Obama and the liberal agenda.
@Trai_Dep: Best fed troll ever. 0_o I have never seen so many disemvowelings in one post.
wld thnk tht fghtng mndtry chld lcks fr gns hs dn mr t sl th rpttn f th NR thn dcptv jnk ml cld vr d.
Folks, this thread is about unordered merchandise. While said merchandise was sent from the NRA, it is simply not relevant and not welcome to hijack the thread completely to post about politics.
Things that have nothing to do with the OP and should not be the focus of your post:
- Gun control
- Democrats
- Republicans
- Barack Obama
- Hillary Clinton (!)
Things that *should* be the focus of your post:
- The original article
- Another person’s comment that is relevant to the original article
Please take the partisan back-and-forth elsewhere.
Snstnlst hdln gn. Th DVD s nt th brkn n n th pht. r f t s, tht’s nt xplnd.
@ryatziv: Along those lines, cats make surprisingly poor accountants for one’s taxes. And spiders aren’t accepted as sovereign currency as often as they should be.
@Trai_Dep: The headline specifically says “This DVD”, referring supposedly to the one pictured.
@ryatziv: Whoa, doggers. You’re serious? Really?!
You must be quite the life of the party. Really.
@ryatziv: I totally thought you were joking.
@ryatziv: I giggled.
@ryatziv: Headline accurate, sorry. Once the NRA knows about the scam, they are as guilty as the scammers.
@takes_so_little: Not saying who is guilty of what. Simply that the DVD in question isn’t necessarily broken, as the direct article and the referenced picture would indicate.
@ryatziv: Oh, my mistake, when you said “headline” I thought you meant, you know, THE HEADLINE.
@ryatziv: Psst.
LOLCats?
(spoiler)
Don’t really transcribe cute things to layer on top of their picture, then send them out on the internet. And their grammar is actually quite good. Queen’s English, behind closed doors.
gss cld s th Fx Nws ttck mthd nd sy, “Hw cn w blv nythng tht th NR sys r ds nw snc thy r n llgl prtn”
BT- dn’t lk whn ppl hd bhnd thr mrktng r prmtns cmpns. Ths r yr cntrctrs nd y nd t b rspnsbl fr thm.
@ARP:
…an illegal… prtn…
what’s prtn? anybody?
Lt th NR rp ff ts mmbrs. Cnsdrng thy’r n rgnztn tht dsn’t cr bt mrdr s lng s ppl cn hv thr gns ‘d sy ths s th lst f ths mn’s prblms.
@Joshua Davis:
Ahem.
“this post is about the FTC Mail Order Rule…It’s NOT about the NRA’s existence or mission, however, so please don’t derail the comments with political fighting or jabs”.
@wgrune: I agree with Joshua.
@Vulpine:
Error! Error! I meant that I agree with wgrune; Joshua is definitely in the wrong with his post.
@Jsh Dvs: nthr qlty Fcbk cntrbtn.
Y knw, crs kll bt 4 tms s mny ppl pr yr thn ll gn hmcds n th S, s shldn’t y b cmplnng bt hw GM nd Frd dn’t cr bt mrdr s lng s ppl cn hv thr crs?
D Y wn cr?!?! Mrdrr!!!!
@Trvshmckry:
W shld prbbly bn swmmng pls t. Stvn Lvtt (Frknmcs) fnd tht f y wn gn nd bckyrd swmmng pl, chld s 100 tms mr lkly t b klld by th pl.
@Travishamockery: Let’s not get off on the Facebook tangent again folks. I’ve read plenty of posts written by dyed-in-the-wool Consumerist members that suck just as bad as anything written by the Facebook crowd.
@Cyberxion101: The Facebookers I can accept with open arms (and pokes). Just imagine the terror of MySpacer comments!
Actually, they’d look alot like this thread does now.
@Travishamockery: Argh! I’m now another victim of “Th_ NR_ _nc_d_nt”
But I deserve it for being baited by an unapproved commenter who blatantly disregarded the instructions in the article.
@Joshua Davis: And the disemvowelment continues
They did the same thing to me with a video tape 5-6 years ago. Their bills went into the trash and I did not renew for several years because I was so upset. It’s good to see that they have switched to DVD’s.
Recently they pestered me to donate money in addition to my membership. They would not stop calling. I went to their website and updated my phone number to the number that showed on the caller id when they call. I haven’t had a single call since.
They do go work protecting our constitutional right to bear arms, but their fundraising practices are horrible.
@youbastid: Not owned by gawker anymore, but it’s the most disemvoweled thread I’ve ever seen, anywhere.
@Eilonwynn: Yes. I’ve been away and just came back to see the parade of consonants. I think this is a record!
@Chris Walters: I think you’re right! I actually am not too sad to be disemvoweled for the first time…I’m with good (or at least lots of) company!
@Chris Walters: 15 Disemvowels, and one preemptive one. We shall call this thread “the nra incident”.
Ok, I deserved the disemvowling because I ignored (I admit it, I saw it, I just disregarded it) the [Note:] above, but I couldn’t just let the inflamatory lead statement go.
As for Trai_Dep‘s statement that NRA members are “actually nice people”, I think I’m going to start calling you Sybil.
Maybe this will get disemvowled too and no one will get to appreciate my Sally Field reference.
@HiPwr: I’m actually fine with guns. People tend to forget that San Francisco was home to The Presidio, an army base of some history. I’m comfortable – perhaps even competent – with them. I’ve been trained by people skilled in their proper uses. Quite skilled. Quiet, but quite skilled.
But it does seem the leadership of the group is at odds with these mainstream members (this is an example, but there are others). And it’s a disservice to them.
It seems if the NRA put as much service towards their members – all their members – this sad event would never have happened. That was my original point.
Tho, whoa momma, had I known how many innocent vowels would have been slaughtered by my original statement, I would have rephrased it. Think of the poor, grieve-stricken parent vowels, now cast heart-broken to an uncaring, consonant-dominant world.
@MostlyHarmless: I think it would be more appropriate to call it “Th NR ncdnt”.
@NitrousO: Me either. Craziness.
@Zorantor: Hahahaha Priceless.
@NitrousO: In his defense, he is a starred commenter, and certainly not a regular troll. But sometimes, even the best tend to fly off the handle.
@scoosdad: Theres a button/link (i guess) that Roz can use to automatically remove those. A very simple one liner if you are using perl (or anything that supports regexes).
@takes_so_little: it takes so little to get disemvowelled in a post with 15 incidents already.
And I think the previous record was (again on Consumerist) when someone called the OP names, some people agreed, other people disagreed, and Roz would have none of it. I think it was 12, but for some reason I keep on thinking it was 21. Or maybe it was a 21 comment thread with 12 guttings. That would make more sense. Also, it makes THAT thread the one with the highest percentage of guttings.
@Chris Walters: It terrifies me! And I so badly want to know what it all says!
Looks like it goes real political.
@Face Imploder: If I were on Wheel of Fortune, and I was selling vowels, I would buy an NRA membership and a few guns just with the profit I would make from this thread.
@Face Imploder: Not really all that political actually. Less political than the last time we had news about the bailouts/stimulus.
@Trai_Dep: Wow, world record for most vowels removed from one thread?
@takes_so_little: I think I know what happened to all the sand disappearing off of the Atlantic Coast, as well.
Wow. This disemvoweled thread is like a free word game!
Yay for self-created content and reasonable moderation!
I’m a life member. I actually can’t remember the last time they sent me anything. Probably has something to do with moving twice in the past year.
Good reason to join the J.P.F.O or G.O.A.
I had the same experience a few years ago, with the same accompanying letter, then subsequent harassment to return the dvd (luckily I didn’t toss it in the trash after viewing the hilarious “home protection” content). I’m not a member of the NRA, and figured this company received my name from a Shomer-Tec order I once placed (I also started receiving these crazy knife/wizard catalogs).
A few years ago something similar happened to me, but it was a college football highlight dvd from the university I went to. I just ignored any and all attempts to charge me for the dvd since I had not asked for it and they eventually gave up. No debt collectors or negative credit score info or anything.
WTF?! I *AM* an NRA member, and I did not receive any such DVD.
How annoying.
@pot_roast: I think it was in an unpadded envelope.
You might have chucked it as just another NRA begging letter.
Since I shred all junk mail unopened ( and my shredder will eat a disc ), I probably got the DVD, the bill, and never noticed.
@pot_roast: I know right? I’m a member and have never received a further solicitation from them in the mail. I get those annoying emails, but nothing else.
Let me just tell you, I just cancelled my personal NRA membership. My business was a member with their business alliance and I got a letter stating that my business membership was cancelled and to immediatly stop using their business alliance logo and they returned my $35 membership dues. It was a certified letter from a Elizabeth Bush. I called them to find out why since they didn’t give me a reason in the certified letter. I called them and I couldn’t get an answer from anyone. They weren’t rude the people I spoke with, but I got the run around and transferred from one person to another and still no answer. NRA Sucks! You would think that they would give you a reason in the letter, but no. I have cancelled my personal membership (was a member for over 20 years). I am still pissed that I was treated that way by an organization I’ve supported all these years.
April, 2010 and they are still doing the same thing. When I complained and asked to cancel my membership, NRA responded that one could only cancel membership in writing (so, the NRA wants to make it inconvenient on members (who have already paid dues) to cancel membership, after they, the NRA, tried to create guilt to pay for uinsolicited product or return it???). An organization that releases its membership information to a company with numerous Better Business Bureau complaints and then doesn’t amend their mistake, is not trustworthy. Maybe NRA management is spending too much time around Congress and embracing their standards. The NRA knew there was a problem months ago, yet, allows it. Goodbye, NRA.