Petite is a very strange category, I find. I can wear petite pants, but only with flats. But I really can't wear petite shirts or jackets because they're too short. I'm only 5'3, why is there such a weird disconnect from the length of the pants to the length of the jackets? I find myself to be pretty average, proportionally. It's not like I have short arms or anything.

Ann Taylor LOFT has a great petites section, I've noticed. A lot of t he things it makes for "regular" size people is replicated in petites.

I think the issue is our society that is obsessed with looks.

It's not that difficult to make plus sized clothing. The margins for clothing are sky freaking high, so the return is well worth the investment.

Plus if the woman goes up or down a size they might return to your brand to buy clothing again to fit their new needs.

@pecan 3.14159265: I have very short legs and am 5 feet, yet petite pants are often too short and regular too long.

I think plus-sized women have become so accustomed to having nothing but ugly, plain, outdated clothing available to us that we don't bother to replace our wardrobes constantly to stay in style. If all you can buy this season is the same plain black pants and white tops you bought last season, there's not much point in upgrading, while a few aisles over, the skinny people have actual new styles to buy.

I don't claim to know much about many things. But I will claim to know nothing about women's clothes. That being said, my wife came home from the mall the other day with 3 pairs of shorts that fit. They were size 4, 6, and 8.

She was up to a 10 or 12 after the baby. She's happy to be back down to an 8, and ecstatic that a 6 fit. Then a 4 fit too.

Seems that maybe they're making clothes the same (regular and plus) sizes, but putting lower numbers on the labels?

Thank goodness guys clothes never go out of fashion...

Bozos swarming the thread to talk about how American women are too fat anyway in 3....2....1....

Seriously, this has been going on as long as I can recall. It's like clothing designers have that part of their brains removed that lets them figure out 'if we don't make a product people can wear, they won't buy our stuff'.

WHERE DOES PETITE SOPHISTICATE STILL EXIST?

I must go to there. Stat.

stretch jersey is your curvy friend.

All I ask is that they make women's pants sized like men's pants.

If I know my leg lenth and my waist lengh...
POOF! Perfect Pair of Pants, don't even have to try them on.

Seriously, how hard is it?

Guys don't have it all that much easier. Our bodies are more consistently shaped and certainly less of a "key feature" of us as a person.

But as a 6'7", 240lb, 27-yr-old male ... I have a heck of a time trying to find shoes that fit, pants that don't expose my ankle, shorts going past the knee, pants that aren't midriffs, etc. I'm not big enough for most Big and Tall, but too big for most regular stores.

I SOMEWHAT feel your pain, ladies. Sorry.

@pecan 3.14159265: That's why I miss Petite Sophisticate so much. You could buy everything in separates and they were always attached to a Casual Corner so you could go get something in regular if the petite cut wasn't quite right. You could have size 4 boobs and a size 10 butt AND STILL GET A SUIT OFF THE RACK.

As a fat chick, I can attest that clothes shopping is a frustrating, embarrassing experience. It's like the entire retail industry is sending the message that I am not worth their time. I've quit shopping at the mall entirely, actually.

It's sad when I stop and realize that by default, I think of any given store as off limits unless they specifically advertise plus size clothes. Name any five clothing stores and I can bet they don't carry plus-size clothes.

@Michael Yockey: No, it's not difficult to make plus sized clothing - but it is difficult to make it look good. People have different body shapes. Some people are pear shaped (small up top, big on bottom) or apples (big all around) and it's difficult to design clothing that fits everyone well.

It's just difficult when shorter people or taller people or wider people or even people who have no curves have to deal with clothes that clearly cannot conform to their needs.

@pecan 3.14159265: Most of my clothes that actually fit well are petite sizes from plus-sized lines. Because too many plus sizes in regular lines assume that all fat women must also be Amazons!

I'm 5'5" and, depending on medical factors, weigh between 210 and 240 (which also makes elastic waists and drawstrings necessities). Hopefully this foot surgery will finally allow me to get in enough exercise without severe pain to keep it down to the lower end of that, maybe even less.

But the only clothes that fit well are those made for both fat AND short women, which are hard to find.

And actually, a lot of the time I have better success with menswear anyway. Which sucks.

@Jacquilynne: Yup. I haven't bought new clothes in years. When I find something that fits well, I buy extra of it in neutral colours to last for years. I've stopped caring about fashion entirely.

I'm tall, muscular, and curvy. Finding clothing is a nightmare.

Ann Taylor Loft actually sells pants that fit me, but I have to order them online because I'm tall, and they only stock petites and regular lengths in the store. I also love tall jackets, because I hate it when sleeves make it nowhere near my wrists.

And do NOT get me started about work out clothing! Why is it so hard to purchase *flattering* exercise attire that is cut for curvy bodies. Not everyone who works out had a straight up-and-down figure, and I am much more likely to go to the gym if I feel comfortable with my clothing.

@Steeb2er: Only somewhat, dude. I can walk into any store, look at the size numbers on a pair of jeans, and grab a pair that will fit my husband without his having to ever try them on. Try THAT with women's pants.

My wife doesn't complain about finding clothes that fit her and she's pretty much CDC Average woman.

However she does complain about bras (and so does our bank account :P) Busty woman should unit against this bias against larger chested women! It seems they are forced into small local boutiques to buy bras to fit them, I suppose you can order online, but she's not into that.

I also would like to complain about the lack of cheap tall clothing lines. We tall people would like to buy cheap clothes too.

I find I just buy regular clothes and deal with them not fitting right.

@mythago: Yeah, it's actually kinda spooky that there isn't any snark yet...

@kaceetheconsumer: Salwar kameez. You can order them custom-made and they are very comfortable on women with larger figures. Look up indiashop1 on eBay.

@AbelKnukka: Different companies measure differently. It's strange and makes it hard to shop online, but by no means is 12 plus sized, even if they're flubbing the numbers and putting a lower number on the label.

I wear a 2 in one store...I walk into another store, and suddenly I wear a 6 or an 8. I'm not plus sized, but I'm not thin either. But the labels would say otherwise if I fell into a spectrum of wearing double digits.

No wonder women develop weight complexes. The size 8 woman finds a store that dips into double digits and suddenly she's considered fat!

@kaceetheconsumer: I can totally understand that. I recently found a top in a style that fit both my hips and my bust, and which I wouldn't have to pin to my bra to keep in place, which is a true rarity, even in stretchy styles that should be forgiving. I bought four of them, one each in black, brown, blue and purple.

...my good-natured message here would be: "Fatties Unite!"

Sounds like there's a gap in the market to be filled. If no one else wants to sell plus-size stuff, then enter the market and crush it.

Plus-size women's clothes cost more per garment than the same style in smaller women's clothing. This may or may not be due to the extra cost of fabric, but the fabric doesn't account for the sometimes huge price differences.

Since plus-size garments cost more, and plus-size women make less on the average than normal-size women, I think the decline is due in part to simple affordability. I make do with a closet full of black pants and eye-catching shirts for work, so I don't have to buy so many things and the things I do have are good quality and don't need to be replaced as often.

Also, I haven't purchased clothes in a B&M store for years. Online and mail order for me.

@juri squared: I'm anywhere from a 12-16 petite. I've just started making my own clothes at this point. *sighs*

@AbelKnukka: I'll try on pants in the same store from the same brand and two different cuts of pants may be as many as three sizes off! (And I have to get them ALL hemmed regardless.

@AbelKnukka: Style is everything. I wear size X in jeans, X-1 in fitted pants, and X-2 in loose pants. If your wife wants to know what her real size is, she should measure herself then look at the back of a sewing pattern. Prepare for the inevitable crying jags when she finds out she's really a size 10 according to the standard size models.

@Steeb2er: My husband feels your pain! He's 6'3'', 170 and can't find shirts that fit properly, everything is way too baggy. Pants are a little easier but its still hard.

I have the opposite problem; I can't find anything that's small enough without spending a fortune! I'm 5'4'', 100lbs and everything that fits me is trendy designer crap that costs a fortune. Where can a small female get classic styled clothes at JC Penney prices without going on a scavenger hunt?

@Skankingmike: Tailoring should solve some of the problems with clothes not fitting properly. Everyone looks better when clothes fit them properly...sometimes it might take a little bit more money, but even if you splurge on a really nice pair of pants, they'll look cheap and terrible if they're too short or too long.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): [www.petitesophisticate.com]

I thought they were gone entirely. Evidently, no.

@mythago: That's actually not as true as it once was.

Because of this horrid metrosexual bullshit they now make "athletic fit" and various types of clothing that are a size say 38 but don't actually fit a man who's a size 38

I range apparently from 38-40 in most clothing lines and L to XL in most shirts (not that either fit)

Also most men who are size 40 must not be a size 32 in length... sigh

@mythago: I fell desperately in love with salwar kameez when on a business trip to Dubai. SOOOO feminine and comfortable. And really easy to make if you have any sewing experience at all.

The issue I have is with the sizing of the clothing. Another issue I have is with certain stores advertising plus-size clothing, then going in there and finding nothing that will fit me, not even in the largest size. I went into a certain store that will not be named and my mom who wears a size 10 or 12 (regular womens) normally had to buy their size 3x. That was real fun. We wouldn't have bought the clothes if they weren't super cheap. I am on the smaller size of the plus-size spectrum, the largest I wear is an 18 so its not like I am maxing out the size 24's or anything. A store that advertises plus size clothing should have something to fit me but many stores advertise plus size clothing, then have nothing that fit actual plus sized people. If I am an 18 and can't find anything to fit, what is the person who is a size 24 going to do?

I also find it really ironic that America is getting fatter, yet there are less plus sized clothes out there. I would think designers would try to profit from all of this fatness by designing clothes that fat people could fit into to capitalize on this.

@Skankingmike: Pretty much, re: bras. I hit the Herald Square Macy's like a ton of...well, mammary tissue on my last trip to New York. Bras! In large sizes! ATTRACTIVE ONES!

@jurisenpai: I am apparently a linebacker, because my shoulders have never, ever, ever fit in clothes properly. It was such a relief when a) shoulder pads went out (I got tired of cutting them out so I didn't have shoulders up to my ears) and b) bare shoulders came in. Because tank tops don't have to fit in the shoulder.

I'm always thinking, there as got to be a way to combine the lower cost of ready-to-wear with the fit of tailored clothing. Men's suit shops do this by providing suits that are 3/4 finished and then a tailor does up the hems and so forth. Can't they do this for women's nicer clothing as well? Have it *mostly* made in the factory, but with, oh, the bust darts and the hems unfinished so they can be inexpensively fitted to the particular woman?

@YouDidWhatNow?: I don't have the capital, so I just say "screw it" and sew my own clothes.

@Megan Squier: Try Express. The shirts there have different cuts, and one of them is a more narrow, streamlined cut so it hugs the sides a little better. Also, they're on sale a lot. Their pants are the same way - much slimmer in the leg, and they emphasize height.

For you, I get your pain! Try Ann Taylor LOFT when they have their big sales. I've gotten cardigans for $20 before, and they've lasted for years. Also, when they have their dress sales, you can get really great dresses for $30 or less. H&M has some decent basics like short-sleeved sweaters (I'm wearing one I got on sale for $10).

@AbelKnukka: Vanity sizing is ridiculous at times.

@Laura Northrup: Oh, HELL yeah! They're at the Chicago Premium Outlets! Next visit to my mother is involving a side trip to Aurora.

I think I love you. ;)

My wife is 5'2" and can never find pants the right lenght. First of all as I've learned, women's pants don't come in easy to use sizes like men's. I wear a 32 waist and 34 inseam. Bam, easy. Women's come in a weird thing like 8 long. WTF is that? 32 and 34 are very specific sizes, they're measurements in inches. 8 is not a measurement. Long is not a measurement. Why make things difficult? Why not make a 26x28 or whatever equivalent?

I get batshit crazy when shopping with my wife, because we go to probably about five hundred stores, only to find nobody carries pants in a mother f#&ing short inseam.

I'm done ranting. That felt good

I think what is being missed is, which, being in the garment industry I can attest to, it is much more difficult to make a profit on plus sized or petite clothing, the actual construction costs are higher, with a smaller return on profit, and that's why these are phasing out. It's not about designers hating women, so much as people wanting to make money. Sizes 2-12, in general are a standard step in proportions on the same pattern sets. Once it gets to plus or petite, the proportions of people bodies are much more varied, and it's very difficult to draft a pattern that will fit the greatest percentages of types and still be on trend and not look like a tent, a very strechy floral tent.

@Skankingmike:

I would suggest Victoria's Secret. They will measure her and then she can try on a couple to get the right fit. She can then order online in more colors of the styles that fit, perhaps catching sales or coupons.

No, they're not cheap, but their bras do last a long time.

@Outrun1986: "I also find it really ironic that America is getting fatter, yet there are less plus sized clothes out there. I would think designers would try to profit from all of this fatness by designing clothes that fat people could fit into to capitalize on this."

An excellent point!

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): I miss them too.. I found them only a couple of months before they went out of business.

I charish my two jackets I got from them before they went down..

@pecan 3.14159265: Which is why men's clothes are great. They spell it out for you: how big is your waist? how long are you legs? These pants will fit (barring the "fit" of pants). I always thought the dress size thing was pretty strange. Women's bodies seem to vary more than men's and yet their sizing is more generalized.

Larger than average women are absolutely more gorgeous that their smaller sisters. So the smaller gals have to work harder to be as lovely. Hence the need for more selection etc... Sorry petites, that's just the way it is.

Really, it's a feminist issue hiding behind a great big consumer issue.

It may or may not be a feminist issue. I have no idea. But it is certainly not a consumer issue, big or otherwise.

No one is under any obligation to sell what you want. I might want a mobius pizza more than anything. Someone else might want cute, well-fitting clothes in larger sizes. But neither of us are owed what we want and no one is obligated to make and sell it.

I personally think the clothing industry is making a huge mistake by ignoring a huge market. But my opinions and five cents will get me no more than a nickel.

@downwithmonstercable: I don't even bother looking for pants with the right inseam anymore. If they fit me from my waist to my knees, I buy them, take them home, and then shorten them.

Of course, that leads to the pile o'pants referenced in the original post.

Even if they make it, it probably isn't in stock. As an average guy I'm surprised at how often L&XL racks are completely empty and the S, M, and XXXXXXL sizes overflow the racks. If stores don't stock the sizes people want could that drive the manufacturers to mistakenly underestimate demand? Could the problem be at the buyer level?