So they are going to generate some revenue by harassing innocent homeowners. Nice.

Isn't the driveway on private property?

Doesn't there have to be some sort of filed complaint/warrant before the police can come onto private property?

I'm confused.

That's pretty dicky, but on the otherhand, gravel driveways suck. Hmmm. I think we should just call it even and move on.

Do we know what kind of vehicles these people had? My godmother lives in Toledo and she has mentioned that any kind of vehicle like a camper has to be parked on pavement. She's never mentioned anything about regular vehicles though.

Actually, it isn't the police that are ticketing the cars.

Thursday the mayor's streets, bridges and harbor commissioner Sue Frederick ticketed cars in their owners' yards all along Holland-Sylvania Road.

You can see a longer story here [abclocal.go.com]

It appears that a city council member is paying the fines for the people ticketed. And is looking at legislation that would only allow police to write parking tickets.

Sounds like the mayor will probably not be mayor after that recall vote in November.

This is key: "Turns out that it's illegal to park on any unpaved surface in Toledo...and that includes gravel or dirt driveways."

Where I live we have the same law and I believe it started out as a tool to stop people from having their own private junk yards on the front lawn and to prevent parking on a mess and then dragging mud & gravel onto public roads. As is often the case, it gets twisted, here to raise $. Where I live they used it to get back at a local business that was just outside city limits & won a suit to not pay local B&O taxes: their parking lot was a location appropriate gravel lot in good shape but located within city limits, unlike the business building itself. They made him pave it. At the same time, a local bar & a church had gravel parking lots that were in poor repair and not appropriate for the locations & always caused mud & gravel to be drug onto the road.

@mbouchard: Holy Toledo!

@The-Lone-Gunman: It's possible that the government has some kind of an easement that they're using as a loophole, but yeah it seems fishy to me.

and what happens if all you have is a gravel driveway??

I say someone goes to the mayors house and rips up his driveway so he has nowhere to park... or just vote him out of office, either way suits me fine.

If I lived there, had the desire and wealth, I would run on the ticket that I'm not a d-bag and doesn't misuse laws like that guy. /points finger

@1234tu:

I think its time for homeowners to start cleaning their guns in their driveway. My money says either they skip your car, or they dont make it to your car.

Same thing in my city, but I hardly see it enforced.

@Megladon: That's an intelligent comment--actually shoot someone for wrongfully giving you a ticket. That certainly warrants deadly force.

@The-Lone-Gunman: The city of Toledo dusted off there copy of loopy laws and started enforcing. What's not to get?

FYI, in Texas you have to get out at an intersection and fire your pistol in the air 3 times if a woman is driving. (seriously)

@SpruceStreetPhil - but ya gotta take market, the bridge is out: They are trying to recall the Toledo mayor: [www.takebacktoledo.com]

This is also the same mayor that had a plan to relocate all the deaf people to closer to the airport: [www.toledoblade.com]

MHM, excuse me while I install a gate at the end of my driveway you cannot see through.

@leprendun: It may not warrant it, but if enough people get shot, Toledo police may think twice about giving stupid tickets.

It'll only require about 20 or so people to sacrifice their freedom (and 20 officers) to get the point across.

@wvFrugan: The town I grew up in had a problem like that. They eventually passed a law and required everyone to have a 12' paved area at the end of the driveway that connects to the road. That seemed to fix the problem... oh, and town town paid half of the cost to install it.

Sounds like a class-action lawsuit for trespassing might just be brewing.

@henwy: Except that people with gravel driveways can't move on. They either need to have that law rescinded, or pave their driveways, neither of which is trivial.

I'm originally from Toledo (I escaped several years ago) and I think it's worth mentioning that they have one of the stupidest mayors in America, Carty Finkbeiner. He suggested that the city could make money by selling houses near the airport to deaf people, he's parked in handicapped spots and left his dog in the car in the summer, he nearly picked a fight with the chief of police, and he woulnd't let the Marines do their training in the city because they "scare people."

@LostTurntable: He seemed like a real jerk during the interview. If he really believed what he was doing was right he would have acted differently. He seemed to have no concern for the people involved. It isn't that much revenue, really so maybe he or someone was mad or wanted to make a point?

I'm waiting for them to start arresting people for loitering in their own yards.

@BigFoot_Pete:
I don't think it would qualify as trespassing if there is a city ordnance against parking on an unpaved surface. Same as ordnances that say your grass can only be so tall. If you don't mow it, the city comes on your property and mows it for you (and sends you a bill).

@LostTurntable: Don't forget about his Golden Shower - the $9,999 shower he had built in his office for no apparent reason other than that he could.

This is in Ohio. We were nearly ticketed in Salem, OH once for drinking beer on our front porch. But the cop was a total sh**bag. Maybe he went on to be mayor of Toledo...

@mbouchard: That's interesting. I didn't realize that a legislative branch (even on the local/municipal level) had the authority to execute the laws (as police officers in an executive branch). As someone who worked in state and federal governments at the executive and legislative levels, it seems to be improper for a legislative entity such as a city council (one responsible for making the laws) to also enforce the laws.

@Project_J187: what if i don't own a pistol?

@LostTurntable: Not to point out the obvious, but aren't the people of Toledo even dumber for reelecting him over and over?

@gStein: obviously you don't live in texas then.

If the driveways are private property, then I smell two possible scenarios:

1. The ticket writers are trespassing.
2. The ticket writers entered the property without a warrant.

I think some "fun things" could happen if a lawyer takes these arguments and runs with them.

@gStein:

This is Texas. I thought they handed pistols out as you crossed the state border?

@hegemonyhog: i assume that there was some sort of change in "because he could" status at $10,000?

@doctor_cos: In parts of my local southern Virginian town the cop wouldn't have made it off the porch.

And no one would ever have done a thing about it... (half the cops are those types themselves)

@Project_J187: I thought shooting a firearm in the air was a felony in most states?

@ludwigk: And who can afford to pave their driveway when they're being ticketed $25/day just for parking there.

@pb5000: That's offensively ignorant, just because deaf people can't hear the airplanes doesn't mean they can't feel the vibrations...

They have a similar law in Hyattsville, MD. If you have so much as one car tire on the grass/gravel on your personal property you get a personal visit from the code enforcer and possibly a ticket. We were visited by a Prince George's County policeman once because a housemate's parents were moving him in and they had THREE WHOLE TIRES on the grass by our back door.

The stupid thing is that Hyattsville isn't a fancy suburb trying to keep up appearances, in fact it is a violent pit of suck. I hope Toledo is at least nice enough to have silly laws like this.

@The-Lone-Gunman: I'm not saying it's right, but the government can *actually* limit what you can do on private property. For instance, killing someone. Or parking on gravel.

Yeah, admittedly, they are two extreme opposite examples, but the point is, argue that the law is wrong, not that the government can pass laws limiting what you do on your property. You'll always lose the latter argument.

@Sunny Yeung:
If the police can see the violation without entering your property, then they don't need a warrant to deal with the violation. Doesn't matter if it's a car in the driveway or pot growing in your flower beds or a domestic disturbance.

@Sunny Yeung: The ticket writer's search is legal because he has probable cause. He can see the car parked "illegally" from the public street. Just like the police may search your car if they smell or see drugs in your car.

That doesn't make the tickets any less crappy.

Here's more details and a video from Toledo's 13abc.
[abclocal.go.com]

I live in Toledo and heard about it last night, I couldn't believe what I saw!

@wardawg: I say we move all the blind people to the ugly parts of town.

Then we should move all the Asians to chinatown (no matter what language or culture they actually are)

After that all the Jews get their own special part, specifically walled off for them called the Ghetto.

/sarcasm

or we don't suggest crap like that because we are civilized people who don't slash mayors' tires for encouraging civil workers to give tickets. No we don't do that. no we don't... no...

@Darkest Daze: I do believe that is the first step to hardline suicide bomber style thinking! Bravo!

In Philadelphia it is illegal to kiss someone unless you are married to them.

I could easily see mayor nutter picking up on this "gotcha" theme and going: WE NEED THE MONEY, ANYONE THAT WORKS FOR ANYONE CAN FINE ANYONE FOR KISSING ANYONE (that they are not married to)

- this is all hogwash

I read/heard somewhere that the city of Toledo supports its laws. What type of bullsh*t statement is that? Of course it supports its REASONABLE laws. Should New Orleans support the law that you can go the wrong way on a one way street if you have a lantern hanging on the front of your car? Should unmarried people be fined for kissing in Philadelphia?

This is just another example of the major overhaul that every level of government (especially legislative and executive) needs to go through in this downward spiraling country.

our local news had a news segment on this and showed the mayor on a sidewalk answering some questions. A lot of questions related to this he dodged or defended...I guess that's why he's facing a recall vote in November. according to one article i read the mayor deputized city workers allowing them to do this.

I'm going out on a limb here, and putting on my flame retardant suit just in case.

Yeah, I get it, we pay for our property and should be able to do whatever the hell we want on it, within reason.

But here's the other side. In my town, because of a number of reasons, street parking is extremely limited and houses and apartments with paved designated parking spaces or garages are rare. That's why, when we shopped our house, we only looked at listings that had garages.

So a few years ago, when everyone had to have three cars - an SUV, a train car, and a luxury car - folks ran out of room to park and started parking on their lawns. One guy, a neighbor of mine, tore up a strip of grass in his front yard and laid down gravel. He tried to hire a company to pave it, but couldn't get the permit because most of the area he wanted to pave was on a municipal easement. So instead, he tore up his front lawn and laid down gravel. That's a great look. Meanwhile, other neighbors just pulled their pieces of shit Dodges up onto their lawns and left them sit there. Pretty soon it was like living in a friggin' trailer park, until laws got passed and the police cracked down.

While I agree that there are certain rights that you have when you buy land, you also have responsibilities and neighbors and their property values depend on your property values. And their "peaceful enjoyment" of their property depends on you not turning the block into a used car lot.

Prime example of why asking the state to "regulate" anything is always a bad idea. Eventually they will use regulation to coerce you!

Think it's still a good idea to have the state "regulate" the sound of commercials now?

Toledo is also one of the few cities in America to have had red light traffic cameras for years.

If you run a red light, a camera snaps a pic of your license plate. A couple weeks later you get a bill in the mail from a private company in AZ. The company installed and maintains all the cameras for free and gives the city a cut of the "ticket" income. Unlike a real traffic ticket, there are no points added to your license nor are the Toledo Police involved. The whole program is simply acts as a giant ATM machine for the city government.