Repo Man: Borked Chrysler Site Can't Take Your Money, But Can Rack Up Late Fees
Late last Thursday night, two guys rang reader Sean's doorbell and asked if he'd like to get anything out of his 2007 Jeep Compass before they repossessed it. Since then, Sean has tried to get current on his payments, but Chrysler's web site snafus have kept him from getting the cash to Chrysler, which won't let him get his car back unless he forks over hundreds of dollars in fees. Oy. Sean's story, inside..
Sean writes:
In March, we (my girlfriend and I) made our normal monthly payment and never thought about it again (I know, our bad for not following our banking close enough). Turns out, Chrysler didn't want our money and it changed from "Pending" to "Returned" on their website. For whatever reason, again, my fault entirely, I did indeed forget to make a payment in April. I'm perfectly willing to pay any associated fees due to my inattention. May 1st, I get a letter stating that my payment is past due and that it can affect my credit rating. I go online to their website to see that I owe them for March and April, and it was still before the May due date. I paid the total amount for all three months, using the same stored checking account information that I had used the entire time for the last 12+ consecutive/on-time payments. It shows the submission as successful and the status as "Pending."One week later, an email arrives stating that the payment didn't go through and that the checking account information was incorrect. I go back to the website, re-enter my information and submit the total payment again. Again, says it went through and changes to "Pending."
One week later, the same email comes back. I go back again, re-enter the information a third time, and submit just the May payment to see if it goes through at all. Again, status shows "Pending" after it submitted.
Strangely enough, it changes from "Pending" to "Submitted" during the week, meaning that they actually took their money this time. A week after we made the May payment, they repo'd the Jeep. No letters saying that it was coming, no phone calls, no messages-just the first letter on May 1st stating that I was past due.
Needless to say, I was a wreck, I had the first toothache (and the most painful at that, had an infected abscess…blech) that I've had since I was 12 all day, and then they took my Jeep away, catching me completely off-guard.
Friday morning, I call the repo center (Certified Auto Recovery Inc) since that's what I was told to do to ask about getting my car back. The guy I spoke to had no idea why I was calling him and instructed me to call the bank to clear it with them first. He then gave me the number to call Chrysler for their "Recovery" department. I put a call into Chrysler and spoke with Dawn, a fairly nice rep who explained the process and said that I owed the back payments and $370-$400 in recovery fees for the repo. I had to call off Friday (no way to get to work) so I was hoping I could have it resolved and pick up the Jeep that day. I also wanted to see a dentist ASAP as well as head to Ohio for a wedding on Saturday. She told me that no matter what, it would take 24-48 hours and the earliest I could pick it up would be today (Monday).I proceeded on Friday to fax in all the information I needed to send in and Dawn let me know that when I call in Monday, I could pay with my debit card and it'd be about 45 minutes until they could release my Jeep to me. After faxing the info, a call to Dawn confirmed that they did indeed receive our faxed documents. Here the waiting starts for the mysterious "processing" portion.
That brings me to (Monday). At around noon (Dawn said that all paperwork should be processed by 1PM), I called in to make the payment. She takes our information and informs me that one of the pages didn't come through the fax properly and I'd have to resend it. Why I wasn't told Friday, I have no clue. She said I could email it to her to make it easier for me. An option I would've loved from the start since it cost me $6 to fax from the only local place that offers outgoing fax services. I called soon after I emailed the document and she confirmed that she had it and said it would take just a little bit longer for it to process and that she would call us back. From here, there were about 4 phone calls from me to Chrysler and to Certified Auto Recovery Inc. to see if the release was processed, being met repeatedly with "Not yet" and "Just a little longer." Finally, at about 3:25PM, Dawn let us know that I could wait 20 minutes before calling Certified Auto Recovery Inc. to get info on how to pick up the Jeep.
Upon calling Certified Auto Recovery Inc., I'm then informed that I need $210 in cash to pick up the Jeep (storage fees) and that I'd have to wait until tomorrow to pick it up since they stop releasing cars at 4PM.
I was livid at this bit of information. I did all I could to get this resolved as quickly as possible, hoping to get it all done Friday, only to be forced into dragging it until tomorrow, plus this new fee was a delightful surprise.
I called Dawn back and she insisted that during our first phone call, she let me know that there would be additional "agent fees." From what I recall and noted when we spoke, that was the $370-$400 added on to the past due balance. She said I could try to haggle with the garage to get them to lower it, but Chrysler wasn't going to do anything about it. I explained that I was very angry being essentially extorted into paying these extra fees because of the speed that they handled it and she said that it wasn't her fault and that I could take issues up with customer service. She also enlightened me and said that some of her friends in the customer service department have said that online payments don't work when accounts are past due, which forces you to call in to make a payment. This would be fine with me if it actually said that instead of appearing to work, only to fail a week after submission. Not to mention I hate paying the associated fee when paying over the phone as opposed to paying online.
So here's the breakdown:
2 Months of Owed Payments + Late Fees = I'm ok with this. While I still need answers from Chrysler as to why my March and May payments were returned, I know that I should've followed up with it more. BTW, I spoke to my bank (PNC) and they said that they have no record of Chrysler ever attempting to take the money during those submitted payments.
$370 in recovery fees = I'm assuming this goes to pay the repo guys
(Those 2 items were paid directly to Chrysler)
Now, $210 in cash only are due to Certified Auto Recovery Inc. upon pickup for "Storage Fees" thanks to this 24-48 hour period for processing, stalling all day today, and of course their inability to have anything done over the weekend.
You'd think a company that's gone bankrupt wouldn't have such a hard time taking someone's money.
UPDATE: Sean paid the fees and got his Jeep back.
(Photo: bucklava)
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Comments:
Reminds me of the guy that tried to pay cash for a Jeep Wrangler awhile back...no wonder Mopar is in trouble.
Welcome to the joy that is car reposession. I once had a car repossessed. Fairly early on in the loan process. Due to bank mergers, the routing number that appeared on my checks, which checks were still being processed was somehow differently than the routing number, and LONGER account number used for EFT withdrawls. This didn't affect my ability to get direct deposit however. Anyway, Because only like 3 payments had been made by paper check before going over to the finance companies online website, they repod it. They then refused to return the car unless the car was paid off in full. This was with Nissan Motor acceptance corp. Since the loan was so short lived. I quickly got a new car right away as one of the dealerships I dealt with, was sending the loan out on the old credit report they had run when I purchased the first car. I in turn got Nissan completely off my credit. Due to their website having issues. I totally killed it.
sounds more like if someone actually kept a ledger balance in their checking account they would have seen that they didn't balance after the first missed payment and called Chrysler to take care of it before it all got out of hand..... I do not feel sorry for this guy....
@missy070203: "BTW, I spoke to my bank (PNC) and they said that they have no record of Chrysler ever attempting to take the money during those submitted payments"
sounds more like someone needs to read an entire article before they make tragic comments
@missy070203: You don't forget anything, ever? It looks like the OP made 12 months of payments on time before ever forgetting, which is apparently impossible, according to you.
The OP acknowledged his mistakes, desired to pay whatever costs were associated with rectifying the situation - and there are still people saying "well if he hadn't missed it in the first place..."
In some cases, I think that kind of comment is justified, and is legitimate. But when the OP knows he made a mistake, and accepts the costs with fixing it, saying he should've been more careful to begin with is so redundant - he knows he's made a mistake, and he's probably learned a valuable lesson.
So the short version is: He was late. He he made more than a reasonable effort to make his payments. He finally DID make the payment. They repossessed his car anyway. Then they want to charge him $600+ for something they should not have done in the first place?
Although the online system should have worked, I wouldn't have waited so long to call in and make a payment so that I wouldn't risk being so far overdue.
Well, now I feel less guilty for buying a Mazda two weeks ago.
@bloggerX: Not sure how this is relevant, as it doesn't say he called before the car was repossessed. If he waited until after, this person is correct that if he had kept a closer eye he may have been able to catch it before they took the car.
@missy070203: He repeatedly acknowledges that he should have kept a closer eye on what was going on. I think his real beef is with the cost incurred for storage fees that were directly related to the slothful/inefficient handling of the situation by Chrysler. That would irritate me too.
I did hear once that you could mail checks in for payment. Is that true?
@oneliketadow: Checks are still extremely useful in these situations. It's just that we've been conditioned to think Internet = instant! when it's not really instant, and just because you've made a payment, doesn't mean it'll get posted right that very second. It might get posted before the check gets mailed and processed, but after a few failures and a call to check up on why it failed, I'd be trying to either pay on the phone by credit card, or just send a check. But I totally understand why the OP kept trying on the internet, because it is faster than sending a check, even if it's not instant.
@missy070203: Sounds more like if someone actually read articles, they could make intelligent comments.
The OP admits his mistakes, but also points out that he tried a number of times to make the back payments and rectify the situation. Regardless of his forgetfulness, he shouldn't have to deal with this nightmare while trying to actually pay the money to get his car back.
The moral of the story is that if something has gone wrong once, don't try to do it again without finding out why.
Think of it this way. Chryslers online system sounds broke, their bad. But then the guy keeps trying to use a broke system. Would you keep pumping quarters into a soda machine that wasn't working.
Folks, just because its on a computer, doesn't make it perfect.
Okay, Chrysler didn't make the process easy, but then there's no real incentive to Chrysler to make it super simple for non-payers to get their stuff back.
Regardless of the reasons and good intentions, the payments weren't paid on-time. Trying at the last minute is fine and well, but if the OP had been personally responsible up to that point, this wouldn't have happened.
@nakedscience: While that's been known to happen, I can see how having a variety of options can help people get something done faster. For the most part, the mail is reliable.
The problem here is that it's Chrysler, and they've messed up something they shouldn't have messed up. I'm not saying it can never happen - it just seems that if the site wasn't working, it would be easier to pursue a different method of problem solving while trying to fix the first problem.
@SarcasticDwarf: At the end he also talks about the customer service person telling him that online payments don't work for past-due accounts. If that is so, and it is not stated on the website then small claim's court sounds appropriate.
@TrueBlue63: I had the same thought. Theres a saying regarding a good worker and a bad worker - when a light bulb goes out more than once in a week, a good worker will find out *why* it went out while a bad worker will continue to replace the bad bulb.
Ask questions and think about things, don't just do. I know the American educational system wants you to do the opposite, but I'd like to think our human instinct should win out.
No compassion at all. How can you not look close enough at your checking to see that much extra and say "mmmm whats wrong?" LOL, Second, missed payment the next month?, Third once you made the payment why did you do it online yet again? CALL SOMEONE!!!
You left it up to a failing system and that was the biggest mistake. After the second or third issue call someone. Don't assume it is working this time.
Honestly I feel for you but pay the fee's its your own fault.
@pecan 3.14159265: It's also the system's fault for claiming the process was working. If I made an internet payment and the system I paid to told me it had been submitted and was processing, I would call it a done deal. Whereas if I were trying to submit an online payment but the system told me, "I'm sorry, we can't process your payments online," I'd go try to find whatever happened to my old checkbook.
@pecan 3.14159265: "For the most part, the mail is reliable."
That's kind of hilarious, actually. No, it's not that reliable.
I have a question. Why didn't the OP receive a statement for his auto loan? I receive a statement every month. I get mine by mail, but some companies do online statements as well. I make my payment and then I wait for it to post and update my records (which is mostly just a reminder in Google Tasks that I've paid my car loan).
@balthisar: ", but if the OP had been personally responsible up to that point, this wouldn't have happened. "
...So? Shit happens, people make mistakes, people get busy. That doesn't mean Chrysler should screw him over.
@nakedscience: *shrug* It's always been reliable for me. Any mail lost has always been the problem of the person/company sending it to me, not due to my negligence. But then again, I do most of my banking and payments online because I like for my payment to post the day I make it, or the day after, rather than waiting for the check to clear.
The company that is currently servicing my auto loan had significant problems with their website for two months and it required a little Google trickery to come to a cached payment page that put me back into the secured payment system.
Works flawlessly, aside from the fact that payments from my checking account are DELAYED and I get ZERO notification the payment was processed for DAYS. I had a hard time getting a sympathetic ear with Customer Service. They more or less treated the website as a luxury to make payments and if I couldn't access it then "oh well". Same thing with billing statements - they never matched the website, so I'd have to call and confirm payments posted.
I just wish people would get off this stigma that if you are late or miss payment that you are a "bad" person and so highly irresponsible.
@pecan 3.14159265: After the first f'up, I'd send a check certified mail.
If you don't own any checks, I'd use my banks online bill pay system to mail them a check. It will print and mail checks too.
@TrueBlue63:
Ditto, I make all of my CC payments online. made one once and forgot about it, got a call a couple weeks later asking where my payment was. Apparently it never went through. In thinking back I never got the confirmation e-mail that the payment had been received. Now if I don't get that e-mail I double check to make sure the payment went through.
@TrueBlue63: A famous man once said, "Fool me once (long pause), shame on you. Fool me twice (very long pause), you see the fool can't get fooled again". I think that advice might fit here.
@missy070203: Mods, disenvowelment here, please? Comments are rude and add nothing to the conversation.
The mail has been extremely reliable for me as well. I'd like someone to post evidence of the USPS being unreliable if they are going to make such a claim.
@pecan 3.14159265:
I think the message to be taken from the story is that if a company's online payment system isn't working, try something else. It sucks that this is happening to Sean, but I think after the second or third failed attempt, I would have just written a check or paid over the phone.
Small claims suit? Sounds like he has a case. Sue Chrysler AND the repo company...
There are several inconsistencies with the OP's story here. First, he should have noticed that his March payment was not made, even after he submitted it online. A car payment is about $300-$400 a month at least. He should have noticed some extra cash in his checking account. He didn't even make his April payment, which should have been another red flag that his account had extra cash in it. Inunderstand he admits the mistake of forgetting April, and everyone makes mistakes, but his account balance should have tipped him off.
When he finally gets the letter from Chrysler, instead of calling customer service or, preferably, writing an e-mail, he tries to submit the payment online again. This is just pretty irresponsible on his part. While we all have grown so comfortable with electronic payments that we assume they go through 100% of the time, it is our responsibility to make sure the payment goes through. I bet the OP didn't even print out the confirmation screen when he made his payments. This is crucial evidence, especially if there is no confirmation e-mail sent. What proof does he have if he doesn't print it?
That being said, I am shocked that Chrysler would repossess a vehicle after only 3 months of non-payment! I watch the show Repo sometimes on TruTV, and most repos seem to occur after 6-7 months of non-payment, sometimes longer. Obviously, the entire repo process is protracted and painful. These employees are used to dealing with people are simply irresponsible in some fashion, and in a way, the OP is irresponsible since he didn't take crucial steps to verify his payments. I agree that the repo fees are steep, but no steeper than when you park illegally and the cops ticket you and have your car towed to a tow yard. Ever been through that process? It's just as bad. The point is, don't have your car repossessed and expect to get it back quickly and on your preferred schedule.
I think this is a lesson to be learned by the OP. Verify your payments, check your accounts, and follow-up by phone or by writing if you encounter glitches. Use a service like Mint.com or Mvelopes.com to manage your money and accounts. I find that they are great for tracking every single transaction that hits your account.
@oneliketadow: Yez, but then Ford will mail you back your check with "This is not a check" stamped across it.
It was for my dads car. He was pissed, I had a good giggle (out of his earshot, of course).
I want him to mail them a pipe next.
I don't receive statements at all. Our auto loan is through a bank 3 states away (it's what our local dealership organized). All we have is a receipt stub booklet. We send a receipt stub once a month with our check. No correspondence between the bank and us at all (other than sending up 5 years worth of receipt stubs). This has made me nervous since buying the car in November. I've even sent future payments several months in advance just in case one gets lost.
This is one of the reasons why when I found a bank that has a reliable online payments system with guaranteed delivery of payments (within their ToS of course) I've stuck with it, and use it for all of my bill payments. It took me about 4 years of 100%-reliable history with the online payments system to feel comfortable using it for my mortgage, but that's my own personal paranoia.
My bank promises to cover any late fees or penalties if they don't deliver a payment by the date promised. In more than a decade of using their bill-pay, I think I've only had to take advantage of that twice. Even though they're not exactly my friend, at least my bank doesn't benefit from my payments being late like the payee would, and all my payments (completed, pending and scheduled) show up on one web page for me to monitor.
@rellog321: Its not the repo company's fault; Chrysler is holding the bag on this one. If Chrysler hadn't botched up the payments the repo company would have never had to store the car for so long. This is like if you don't pay your mechanic on time and he holds the vehicle you have to pay storage fees until you either pay the mechanic or he puts a lien on your car and sells it to get his money.
I think Chrysler owes the repo guy $210. The repo guy is the only 100% innocent party in this situation; he's just doing his job. It may not be the prettiest job but its necessary to keep costs down.
That's probably why they're bankrupt.
As far as this writer... wow. I think I'd be freaking out if I was that far behind on a car payment. He comes across, in his writing anyway, as kind of lackadaisical about it. Yikes.
@Wombatish: That...is nuts.
Does that count as Ford refusing payment?
He shouldn't mail them a pipe. He should mail them a drawing of a spider.
@bloggerX: I have been working in lending for years and for some of my previous employers I also had to collect any loan that would have been defaulted if I wrote the loan.... If they were sending him letters stating that his credit was going to be affected those letters would also included and request for him to call a specific person at a provided number to make payment arrangments....which he did not do until after they repossessed the vehicle.... I'm not excluding Chrysler from fault here- Obviously they need to improve their website and they maybe owe him some sort of refund for service fees ....but all in all- this just sounds like there has obviously been some editing of crucial information....and he is whining.... so I don't feel sorry for him...
@HiPwr: yeah I'd be pissed if I had to pay hundreds of dollars in storage fees to a repo co. too .....maybe he will keep a closer eye on his stuff from now on.... thats a very costly lesson to learn.... I wonder why if he makes his payments online and obviously uses the internet daily ... why doesn't he use his online banking through PNC I have been on their sites before they are pretty easy to navigate
@rugman11: True, but the loan is a private contract between Chrysler and the OP. So why doesn't the onus fall on Chrysler to make the extra effort?
Let me try to explain: What if I had inordinate security restrictions on my bank account and attempted to by by electronic check through a functioning web site? Imagine that, as soon as the debit was detected, my bank would call Chrysler to verify, call again for their tax id number, email twice to verify their IP, and then certify by faxing a copy of the contract to the bank. How far into the process would Chrysler get until they just said, 'to hell with it' and considered the amount unpaid? I think the answer is: not very far. And I think they would be justified in doing so, because all those extra steps exact a cost, and for me to exact them is, more or less, outside the bounds of the contract.
So in this situation, where the effective reverse is true: Chrysler shouldn't be allowed to decline the money owed by way of overly complex payment process any more than I should be able to deny making a payment by way of an overly complex withdrawal process.
Although, the law usually does not view things in these terms, and allows (what I consider) marginal breach of contract provided one of the entities i
It sounds like Chrysler wants to hoard as many cars as it can in anticipation of the spike in used car prices, kind of like what the Hunt Brothers tried to do to silver in the early 1980's.