"familial obligations such as caring for relatives, emergencies among extended family members, or helping others out of financial emergencies"

We also don't know what kind of familial resources any particular poster has. Many of us are fortunate to have families with the resources and relationships to help us out of a tough spot. Others of us are not.

I always get irate when someone I know in meat-space gets self-righteous about someone else's debt situation when I know that they have been kept OUT of that situation by their parents' generosity and financial wherewithal. Not everyone has that resource.

I certainly got interest-free loans from my parents when hitting a few bumps in the financial road during and fresh out of school when my reserves weren't very large. That means I didn't have to put, say, $1500 of car repairs on a credit card while in college, and I could pay it off that summer while I was working.

(Btw, this is a very compassionate post, Chris. I like it.)

Very well said, Chris. Thank you.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): off topic, but just wanted to say your new picture is great! How's little Eyebrows?

Caption: Kittens' first meeting with vet proctologist ends poorly.

Pretty damned awesome post, Chris.
Considering that over half of US bankruptcies are caused by medical calamities (and most of those are insured people (gulp)), people pointing fingers may very well be pointing at themselves.

Fantastic post. I am sick of seeing snotty "serves them right" responses where people get on their soapboxes to lecture anyone who doesn't happen to have a year's salary and/or enough to cover catastrophic medical emergencies shored away in savings. I've seen a lot of sneery "well you should have had an emergency fund, shouldn't you?" comments (here and elsewhere) lately, and seriously have to wonder what planet some people live on. Well said!

You have a great point, especially on the unknown expenses. My husband and I have an infant with a rare genetic condition that will probably take his life at some unknown point. In the last few weeks we've spent $2500 on medical expenses unreimbursed by insurance, as well as a similar amount to update our wills and set up a special needs trust, should he outlive us. Even more important since DH is in the military and prone to deploy. We're good with money but 5K in a month is stretching us. Wish we had more background on the previous couple.

Thanks for the post, Chris.

It might do well that some posters should realize that any and all posts read about supreme financial awesomeness, fiscal perfection and an innate knowledge of all things regarding monetary responsibility automatically are met with extreme suspicion. It reminds me of the self-reported IQ tests where everyone in a thread is magically scoring somewhere between 150-170. Short version - the odds that you're lying are pretty dang good.

@MsAnthropy: I really have to wonder how many of those people throwing rocks actually have the resources they try to make people think they do.

People I know make below median salaries trashing others for having a sudden and huge medical debt. While I know the person doing the trashing would end up losing everything, filing for bankruptcy or living in massive debt until they die if it happened to them.

I see much of this bad behavior as one of those odd character flaws rather than actual people with perfect financial histories admonishing those who don't. It seems to make them feel superior with no consequences. It also shows a real lack of empathy and compassion for others. You don't need to fall all over yourself for every sob story you hear of but you don't need to kick people when they are down for your own amusement.

Studies have shown that too few of us really have sufficient emergency funds and half of the bankruptcies are for medical bills, not the stereotype of mountains of credit card debt and bling.

Good post, except I wish the lecture wasn't necessary. What's the mileage in trolling Consumerist, anyway?

One thing folks need to understand is that sometimes, even if consumers have made bad decisions, the things companies do to them are still bad. If I spent a whole bunch of credit-card money on designer purses, that wouldn't somehow justify or excuse Chase's changing my minimum payment. Now, you can make an argument one way or another on whether they have the right to do it, or whether it's a good idea, but the purses don't enter into it.

I am seeing the light at the end of a very dark debt tunnel, caused by my husband using credit cards to support his gambling habits. With the help of a great debt consolidation company (I was referred by my company's EAP), credit counseling, and good old fashioned frugality, I should have no credit card debt by the end of 2010.

10 years ago, I just wanted to die, the debt seemed so overwhelming. But there is help out there, and if you work hard, and learn to discern between what you need and what you want, you can get out of debt and move forward. I have no mortgage, my property taxes are paid, and I have 2 months emergency cash stashed. Everthing is current, and my FICO score is 728.

Yes, I still owe money, mostly parent loans for my daugther's college, but the end is in sight.

I can tell you from personal experience that not everyone who has large amounts of debt is irresponsible. I can pinch a penny until it screams, but my husband is a send-a-holic and it's taken years to get him on the wagon.

@bohemian: And even if you are fortunate enough to have a large pile of readies, you can get screwed by inflation if you keep it liquid till retirement age. No guarantees in either direction.

@CumaeanSibyl: I don't know that it's trolling so much as the human desire to categorize tragedy in a way that means it couldn't happen to them. The old "He was mugged on Main Street at 5:05 p.m.? Well, I'm never there a minute past 5, so it wouldn't have happened to me." We don't like to feel vulnerable, and if people's bad fortune is their fault, then we're not.

@Trai_Dep: Yeah, I'll nitpick. "Half of US bankruptcies are caused by medical calamities" is inaccurate. The correct phrase would be "half of all bankruptcies involve medical debt".

Thank you. Kicking someone when they're down and blaming them for falling serves no purpose.

My first thought: a classy, well-put together ohhmygodholyjezthankyou

Nice, Chris. What I like about this post is that it's more than a simple snobby reprimand to simple, trolly, snobby, classist commenters. Hopefully all of our self-proclaimed financial wizards will have more substantial comments in the future.

@floraposte: Interesting point! I always saw the negging as mean-spirited trolling too. I never thought of it that way...

Having read some of the comments on the previous thread, I will agree that the overall tone was less than compassionate.

At the same time, I think the OP's situation does point to a larger problem that few of us are ready to deal with when we are in the situation. And what that situation is is that most of us are in much less stable financial waters than we believe we are in until whatever crisis hits that reveals to us our very precarious actual position. We make decisions often based upon very faulty reasoning.

That is what I wish more people would take from these stories of people hitting their financial walls. I am sure that the OP thought he was making the best possible choices that he could and had a good plan to get out of the credit card debt he had gotten himself into. The sad fact is his plan relied almost entirely on credit cards acting in good faith and the economy not taking a nose dive. It was more planning on the best rather than planning on the worst and hoping for the best.

I fully admit to acting like that for years. And I kept on getting hit with situations very similar to the one that the OP shared. It wasn't until I could really own the fact that I was in pretty bad financial shape (and truly understand that it wasn't "just bad timing" of one thing that had sent me over the edge) that I started to change how I viewed money and how I used money.

It has taken literally years, but I finally am starting to have a handle on my finances. I credit Mary Hunt's books on Debt Proof Living with helping me take control on my money. I would highly recommend it to anyone struggling right now. She is compassionate and very specific in her advice within her books. And they will probably be available at your local library.

We all know what we should be doing with our money. A really big part of starting to change our patterns is to realistically look at where we are and what the actuality of our money situation is. I hope the OP (Greg, I think) is able to step back and perhaps get some outside assistance and advice as to what the best next steps are for him and his family. If this CC debt is really the straw that breaks his finances - he needs to really investigate all his options. Up to and including bankruptcy. It might be the best thing (it might not) but he needs to look at this honestly and hard. And figure out a course of action that will work - not just slow down the tide momentarily.

Best of luck to the OP - thanks to Consumerist for sharing these stories and giving us all a place to think about these issues and discuss them.

@floraposte: As much as I would like to think this is the case, unfortunately some people are just dicks that like to feel that somehow they're superior. If anything, I would call it projecting, as I'm sure many of them have financial troubles of their own and need a distraction.

Thank you and well said, Chris. I normally like to read comments in Consumerist because I feel I do learn from the posts of others, but this orgy of blaming that has infected the comment section at times has often made it difficult for me to continue.

@rugman11: Fair enough. Good catch.

@MissTicklebritches: Fussy and sleepless, which means I am fussy and sleepless, but luckily at this age they grow out of a "stage" in three days or so. :) I'm sure he'll be back to being adorable shortly!

@EinhornIsAMan!: "people who are Jewish when it comes to splitting the check"

Niiiiiiiice. Care to make any other ethnic stereotypes while you're here?

@EinhornIsAMan!: I don't really think that's an appropriate use of the word "Jewish," as an epithet.

@bibliophibian: @Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Since I am technically 1/16 Jewish, I declare immunity

Agreed! I am sick of conserva-hards and libertarian types who incessantly "blame the victim" for their problems. Sure, most Americans can use some more personal finance education. But most of the fault lies with the big banks whose business it is to screw consumers.

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): +1 for using wherewithal in your post.

Also, great post. Sums up pretty much what I was thinking about this whole thing.

Great post, Chris, and great reply Eyebrows!

@bohemian: "I see much of this bad behavior as one of those odd character flaws rather than actual people with perfect financial histories admonishing those who don't. It seems to make them feel superior with no consequences."

I think it may also reflect narrow social circles? Like some of the people who are worst about this (in real life) don't actually KNOW anyone who doesn't make six figures and can't actually conceive of a situation in which you don't have the option of building up reserves and so forth.

I feel pretty comfortable getting judgy about my professional friends with the absurd amounts of debt to the point they can't pay for dental work until they pay down their credit cards (and race to the dentist before they max them all out on crap again). But I also have friends who come from very different backgrounds (who may now be professionals, but may be carrying a lot of "backstory" with them financially) and friends who live in very different circumstances (medical crisis, post-divorce single mother, laid off, blue collar, etc.)

If your social circle is so narrow that the only people you know with debt are professionals like my idiot friends with the lack of dental work, well, I can see why you'd be judgmental about it. But that really just bespeaks a very, very narrow experience of the world, and a shocking unwillingless to engage with other segments of society.

@floraposte: Bingo. This is a HUGE contributing factor to the "blame-the-victim" stuff that goes on. If we can think of a way that it was the person's fault, and not just "shit happens," we can convince ourselves that we're safe as long as we're smarter/more cautious/better than Those Other People.

It's still a crappy attitude, though, and I hope the bashing dies down. I've only been a regular for a few months, and even in that short period of time I've noticed a marked increase in the caustic, "serves 'em right" type of commentary.

@Stephmo: that makes me feel like we should have a confession thread: "Bad money habits of good consumerists." I know I've got a few. :)

Thanks for the reminder, but the unfortunate part is the self-righteous won't recognize themselves in what you've written.

@EinhornIsAMan!: Not granted, I'm afraid. Please don't.

THANK YOU. I was mightily pissed at a lot of the stuff in the credit card thread. Is it just me or had the comments been getting worse lately?

Anyways, I know Consumerist is still hooked up to Gawker, tech-wise, but in the future would it be possible to get comment rating, or more star-giving, or some other way to weed the good comments out from the crap? It would be awesome!

Speaking as someone who was in 5 digits of debt, I'm tired of the blame the debtor mindset too. I didn't ask for the debt, but a mudslide that wiped out a family members home combined with someone stealing my car right after I took a pay cut due to the dot-com bust, well it added up quick.
But I got out of it without declaring bankruptcy. I now have zero debt of any kind. It took a few years of work though.
My advice? TALK TO YOUR CREDITORS! If you call them and ask for help you'll be amazed at how often they're willing to do so. Sure some won't, but the ones that will might give you enough wiggle room to keep the ones that won't at bay.

a point from my own life and work experience - resources in geographic region x may equal $$ amount to resources in geographic region y - yet be unequal in the local value.

examples:

life - i recently bought a house and my friend was my realtor. she usually works in a region about 40 miles from where i purchased. she said the price i paid for my 1/2 acre 3BR 2BA 1600 sq ft home wouldn't buy a 2BR 1 BA shack on her end of town.
when i moved from one state to another, my car insurance for the exact same car went DOWN $1400 a year with the same insurance company.

work - i work for a pharmaceutical company and help people who take our medications to apply for financial assistance. some of the people i talk to make well above the various income caps, have two working adults, a modest home and transportation, public schools for the kids and all that yet still can't afford the copays for their medications. yet other people have twice the copay, live in much larger homes, drive newer cars and send the kids to riding lessons and have lower incomes - and no trouble affording the medication.

and that's not always due to the individual's debt or what they do with disposable income. where you live affects your home and vehicle insurance premiums, the price of gas, property taxes, etc. how many times have we seen comparisons on here on the price of a pound of beef or a gallon of milk listed in the comments? $1 more a gallon/pound for this that and the other adds up to hundreds or more a year, leaving 2 equal $ amount incomes worth considerably different values in different regions

@bibliophibian: I notice that too. Honestly I think the pressures people are feeling due to the recession are bringing out a lot of ugliness on the comments here. I hated to see the OP getting bashed on this one.

Some of these comments would bash the crap out of my way of doing finances, but overall I don't feel pressed and stigmatized by debt. At all. People who are insecure about their own tenuous financial situations or who learned their lessons from bad choices are going to be bitchy. I put it down to that.

Word

@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner: when we moved to a small market, many of our lawyer friends were jealous of our suddenly-low cost of living ... not realizing that our student loans are oddly unconcerned that we're no longer practicing in a primary market. :P

(Which, not complaining, it's a deliberate choice we made, but there are definitely things that adjust and things that don't; and things you can change and things you can't.)

THANK YOU, I came close to dropping an F-bomb on a couple posters. Let me share a little about my own financial journey: I currently live frugally on a fairly modest SS disability income. I was asaulted at work (I was an Occupational Therapist) by a brain injured patient & ended up falling down steps which exacerbated and added to a few pre-existing medical conditions and resulted in several procedures (including life threatening neck surgery). My work sponsored health insurance, workers' compensation, and private disability income policy all did the usual delay, deny, confuse, etc. I have been unable to work the better part of the past 12 years. I went from making @ 80K a year to SS. My medical bills & commitments (which were reasonably prudent prior to me getting hurt) caused me to go bankrupt and lose most of my physical posessions. I was prudent & "protected" by all sorts of insurance (health + income disability) & systems (workers' compensation, etc.): all failed me to a large degree and none delivered what they promissed or sold me. In America, it's all about what you have done for me lately and that people want what they want: they will criminalize those for being poor & lacking opportunity to rationalize their own excessive capitalist behavior. I have experienced the loss of friends & family relationships as I no longer have huge financial success: I understand that health problems & financial crisis often scare people as it is possibly too close to home & raises the awareness that it can happen to you, but well beyond that, your lack of ability to be successful financially commonly makes you a target of others who are certain that somehow you are a failed person or did something to deserve such. America loves to blame the poor for being poor.

@juri squared: I agree! This type of forum would be ideal for a "Was this post helpful to you?" sort of system.

Thank you very much for posting this. Smug comments are never appreciated or helpful, and I've seen so many that are just downright hurtful - it's embarrassing to be part of this community sometimes.

@bibliophibian @Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): : This actually reminds me...

My boyfriend, who is Jewish, took me on our first real date 2 months into the relationship. He had a $10-off coupon. At the end of the meal, he sat there and meticulously figured out our respective shares of the bill, down to the penny. Ontario has Provincial Sales Tax and the GST listed separately, so it required a fair bit of calculation. I come from a city with a small Jewish population, so I wasn't even aware that particular stereotype existed and didn't make a connection.

Of course, the flip side to this story is that he says I'm the cheapest person he knows (and that's likely accurate, I'm REALLY cheap), and that sort of rigorous cheque splitting hasn't happened since. So what have I done here? Have I affirmed the stereotype with my anecdotal evidence or have I busted it? I'm not sure.

@ybrws McG (nw wth mr bby!): S tr. t's dffclt t s pst th vl f prvlg. dn't knw wht t s bt ths knds f ppl wh r Jwsh whn t cms t splttng th chck, bt wll drp thr prnts' dgh n ny pssng whm.

Wht prvlg, fnncl prvlg, y nm t, t's hrd t gt prspctv frm thr.

@floraposte: If being a member of the ethnicity you're mocking doesn't give you a free pass, I don't know what does

poverty tends to have its own gravitational force; it can be an enormous challenge to break free from it

Speaking as someone who started in live without a whole lot of anything, this is one of the largest problems I have with most blame the op posts. When you have nothing, you tend to think you'll always have nothing. This "challenge" which people poo poo with "well suck it up and work harder, you lazy welfare receiving bum" is one of the most difficult things in life short of a physical handicap or severe mental illness to overcome.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Exactly. Job changes and regional changes affect finances in all kinds of unforeseeable ways, good and bad, but sometimes you gotta roll the hard six.

One thing I find odd, having just moved back to a mid-priced east coast city from a much lower cost of living area, is how quickly your money mindset adjusts. Like, "Oh, soy milk costs 80 cents more here. It's acceptable to spend over $1000 on an apartment, and I can afford it. Electricity is way cheaper here, so I can use the AC without worrying about going broke." etc. I have to find a money mindset in what's not just a new geographical, but financial environment.

@cromartie:
Yes, this is an excellent point. I was raised low middle class $ wise, but was fortunate to have a good brain & good parents. I have taken in foster kids over the past several years and boy is the system stacked against them: very little opportunity for them. So many (most I think) financially successful people fail to see the opportunities that their successful parents/families provided them. I have seen my own family (all my siblings are hugely successful with money) snub my foster kids & look down on them for their lacking birth families & baggage, never to lift a hand or open a wallet/purse to give them a leg up or opportunity. I can not forgive such behavior, nor look past it without comment.

@EinhornIsAMan!: You're making the assumption that there are free passes to be given.

@EinhornIsAMan!:

It does not give you a free pass. All people should be treated with respect, regardless of their spiritual beliefs and affiliations, whether you are part of that group or not.

The person reading hateful remarks like that does not know that you are "part of that group" and just takes the stereotype or hate, and perpetuates it.

There's an old saying...

"Can't we all just get along?"