I'd say Roger deserves a sixer of some good shit.

Glad to see UPS being so helpful. Also, kudos to the Consumerist for contacting a Dell higher up for their opinion-it asdds a bit of closure to this story, even if the take-away is you need to rise to Global Ops Supervisor before hitting common sense at Dell.

Go to Dell's "Unresolved Issues" page. They will be able to help you out. The link is at the very bottom of the Dell homepage. Or, click here: https://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dellcare/outstanding_issues?c=us&l=en&s=gen&redirect=1

There should be a standard form response to all of these similar questions:

"Initiate a chargeback."

It's not that hard.

@zarex42: Yeah, seriously! WTF! These crybabies write in with these stories like this is some kind of... like, some kind of consumer-issues blog or something!

Lying to a customer? That first CSR should be fired. I know the must keep records of all the calls to the Dell center.

I use to work as a UPS CR and and the Tracing Dept CR. I hate to tell you that UPS tracing dept doesn't actually look for lost packages. It just puts your tracking number in a different computer system when the CR's watch for scans for seven days. That is because alot of lost packages are shipping acoss country by mistake and it takes 5 days for that to happen. They usually get scanned in California. If it doesen't get scanned in seven days we check the lost package center than has all the stuff that labels came off to find a match. If not found, and it seldom does in that center, it gets turned over to claims and sorry, UPS only deals with the company. I suggest you raise holy hell with the company demanding your package.

Some major kudos to Roger for seeing reason and going above-and-beyond for this customer, as well as kudos to the Consumerist for contacting Dell so we could hear their side too.

*chuckles that FedEx told dell to screw*

Time travel.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't it have been easier for UPS to just acknowledge that the package was lost, and thus, stop changing the estimated delivery date? While Dell's policy seems a bit absurd, it seems to make sense under most normal circumstances. UPS seems to be the odd-man out here, in my opinion.

I can't believe there are already "blame the OP" posts in here. take_so_little :rolleyes:

Speaking of Dell, did anyone get their money from that multi-state class action lawsuit yet? I got my claim in well on time to my state representative (Florida) and haven't heard back since.

Update: Roger was fired for not following policy. He now has a new job and says he now plans on never doing more than he is required to.

I think it's crazy that everyone is praising this guy Roger. Has it really gotten to the point that customer service is so bad that we heap gratitude on someone that actually did their job, nothing more?

@zarex42: Which is why people like you are such a hurdle for true consumerism. You can't just do a chargeback for every insignificant thing that doesn't go your way.

In this case, did the merchant send the goods that you purchased? Yes -- the fulfilled their end of the deal, so no chargeback. Take it up with the shipping company instead of taking the lazy, idiotic way out (and I would hope a chargeback would fail miserably in this case). Similarly, I don't see what Dell would need to initiate a trace when it was UPS who seemed to have lost it.

@savdavid: It's not necessarily lying when you're too impatient to at least give them more than a few hours to do what they said they would do.

Since Dell is technically the "customer" (they are the ones with a UPS shipping account), they can choose to submit the claim whenever they want. The status will continue to show a future delivery date until Dell initiates the claim. Out of curiosity, can you provide screenshots of the tracking? If you call the UPS customer service hotline (and actually bypass the automated system), you may be able to get a rep. to contact the center where the package was last scanned. It's probably sitting in the warehouse in Kentucky or in West Chester.

When you call Dell back, give them your tracking number, and tell them the location of the last known scan. Someone from Dell then needs to contact UPS immediately and initiate the trace.

@supercereal: It's not possible to say whether Dell fulfilled their end of the deal without knowledge of the FOB terms. A chargeback may be a very appropriate response to a situation like this one.

This is a UPS problem not a dell problem. Dell has something in place a two days late and we do something policy. Two days late is reasonable to start action to correct a problem. Its not there fault UPS will not stop changing things and tell them that its almost there. If UPS would leave it alone, and just say they cant deliver it and dell would as routine do the right thing.

@takes_so_little: There are plenty of more interesting issues to discuss than things that can be quickly and easily handled with a chargeback.

@supercereal:

Nonsense. "True consumerism" includes taking recourse as appropriate, not whining about trivial problems that are easily solved with a phone call. In fact, having to deal with chargebacks is excellent incentive for the vendors to shape up.

You are also dead wrong about the merchant's responsibility. Until it is delivered, it's the responsibility of the merchant and carrier, not the consumer. In fact, the first thing the credit card company will request from the merchant is *proof of delivery*. This is standard business practice; you really should educate yourself.

It's between Dell and UPS in this case, and is not the responsibility of the consumer.

@tinycorkscrew:

If Dell paid UPS to ship the item, it was shipped "CPT" (carriage-paid-to), not FOB (free-on-board) and the transfer of ownership occurs at the destination address. That's why the consumer can't initiate a trace - it's not their package yet.

UPS sucks as a rule, but Roger is da man.

I went through something similar with Dell and DHL. DHL 'lost' a lap top but would not admit it. Dell could not start the replacement procedures until DHL admit the lap top was no longer in their possion.

@Spin359: If the delivery date is TODAY then they should note that on the order so that when the customer calls again in TWO days and reports the package still missing, they can initiate the trace. If they feel it is important to look at the UPS date again, and if they see that it is the NEW TODAY, they should note that on the order. Once there have been THREE (that's how many deliver attempts UPS does) deliverys gone past 2 days, then they should go ahead and initiate the trace regardless of what the UPS lookup says at this point. That was a WEEK AGO so it should have been done by now.

Certainly something is wrong at UPS. But UPS can't do much about it until it is made aware that delivery is not happening as expected. So while I agree this is a UPS problem, I assert that DELL has a problem, too, and that DELL's problem is blocking resolution of UPS's problem. Dell needs to act FIRST and IMMEDIATELY and do the right thing and start the trace.

The package might have gotten 2 labels attached to it and is bouncing back and forth between two local delivery stations, being scanned in at each one alternating between the 2 labels. The computer system responding to the scan re-routes it back to the other station because the label that was scanned indicates a deliver destination over there. Same thing happens at the other delivery station but with the other label. Perhaps both labels are being scanned and the system doesn't realize its on a single box.

@takes_so_little: Well played good sir or madam. Chargebacks are a last resort...and if that was just all there is to any situation ever...well, Ben and the gang might be out of a job. And I know a certain little Marco kitteh that would never get any overpriced Starbucks oatmeal again! Any update on some resolution for this guy?

It seems the probelm is that UPS keeps changing the delivery date and not on Dell. If UPS says estimated delivery day is something, it needs to stay that day. This is something they have programmed to try and keep "on time" statistics better.

Looks like UPS is trying to cover up their loss of the item (and subsequent responsibility to PAY for the loss) by continually updating the estimated delivery date. I'm also guessing that since UPS is a cozy business partner with Dell, Dell really doesn't want to initiate the trace. Hope Roger's managers aren't too mean to him.

You should print out each day's new estimated delivery date screen as evidence.

See if Roger's trace ever gets initiated. If so, get the tracking number associated with it, etc. Also try to find out where the package was last recorded to be, including date, time, and tracking #.

UPS (based on my own incredibly horrible experience with them) will say they need a week to investigate.

Good luck - please keep us posted.

@supercereal: Who was impatient? The OP? If that's what you're saying, re-read the post. He waited until the next day, waiting to see if the delivery date changed again, before calling them back.

@undefined: @zarex42: "There are plenty of more interesting issues to discuss than things that can be quickly and easily handled with a chargeback."

And yet... here you are. Discussing it. Four comments. Hm.

@zarex42: Isn't that just FOB destination, though? Same effect, of course--or are we talking UCC vs. Incoterms?

@Skaperen: Yeah, the code glitches will send a package into weird limbo. I've had at least one package that bounced from coast to coast until I caught on and requested a replacement. The original is probably still bouncing.

@Kaisum: Yuengling FTW!

Looks like Dell sucks ass again...wow. That's not even really a news flash.

@SharanyaBarba: Roger broke company policy to help a customer.

@Aladdyn: This is what I'm afraid of. I hope "Roger" wasn't his actual name, there are plenty of times I've gone "above and beyond" for customers and would have summarily gotten my ass fired if said customer decided to share my good deed, alongside my name, with the world.

@HogwartsAlum: I had a similar problem with Fedex once, although it was for them to come pick up a package that had been damaged. It was an empty computer case (the kind build-it-yourself-ers stuff with motherboards and parts to make a very customized computer). The package had been crushed about 2 inches thinner and the case inside was buckled. The company (costcentral.com) that sold it did the pickup order when I reported it damaged so that the pickup person could inspect it and return it them for a replacement. Every day the tracking number indicated pickup was to be that day. Fedex was clueless and just kept saying "someone will be out there today to pick it up" while no one ever showed up. After 3 weeks of this, I called and told them they needed to press the matter with Fedex. They went ahead and sent me a replacement and initiated a UPS pickup order to get the busted one back. Two days later one UPS guy came by with the new case and the order to pick up the old one. He was puzzled that he was picking up a package that had originally been delivered by Fedex.

@ZafirahKole: Agreed, and I can understand why they may not want the computer to automatically make that decision so even if it required human intervention to make that decision of "hmm. It is 2 days past the delivery date, something must be wrong, we will flag this as potentially lost which would stop the incrementing and allow the sender to initiate a trace."

As this screen shot is apparently from 3 weeks ago, Corey, if you are reading this, has it been resolved yet?

@hedonia: Yes, the next day is impatient -- give them time to do what you ask. Do you realize how long it takes for information to propagate through UPS' web system? Information may not be updated until the next evening.

@Skaperen:

And how many times a day do you think someones tries to pull some crap to get dell to send more stuff out. dell asked ups what the status was and ups told dell something other than the truth. say you work with a pizza place and i call you as a customer and say it wasn't delivered, and your delivery man says it was or will be soon, your not going to send me another immediately. dell has a process and it has some logic to it. just because ups cant get it right once does not mean that dell couldnt get it right.

@ZafirahKole: this is something that always aggravated me about the whole "we only deal with the shipper" bullshit. i've had a few major issues with UPS losing packages & the second they find out you're not it, it's a rush to get off the phone.

some of the worst phone quests i've ever been on started with a prepaid shipping label...

Never use UPS for items of value. The laws are written in favor of the post office. By using the post office you can claim mail fraud and have the resources of the post master instead of a corporation. By using UPS or FedEx you have two corporations that will blame each other instead of filling a claim with the post master for mail fraud and seeing them come begging to help you. BTW I like using both UPS and FedEx but they just don't have the laws on their side.

@floraposte:
CPT sounds the same a FOB destination. AFAIK CPT is not used in the UCC. Apparently in North America they like to use variations of FOB instead of CPT, FOQ, etc, etc. I think that might be because not too much domestic shipping happens by boat in the US.

That said, I think this is a good candiated for a charge back. Dell's sales terms read as follows:
Shipping Charges; Taxes; Title; Risk of Loss. Shipping and handling are additional unless otherwise expressly indicated at the time of sale. Title to products passes from Dell to Customer on shipment from Dell's facility. Loss or damage that occurs during shipping by a carrier selected by Dell is Dell's responsibility. Loss or damage that occurs during shipping by a carrier selected by you is your responsibility.

Assuming OP didn't tell Dell "I'm having UPS pick it up at your place", Dell chose UPS, which makes this a FOB Destination situation, and Dell is liable for the lost shipment. This means Dell never delivered the product, so a charge back (or repudiation in UCC speak) would not be a breach of the contract by the buyer.

As always, I am not yet a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, not my fault if you go to jail, get sued, etc.

@Crim Law Geek:
For the citation-happy crowd, Dell's terms are available here:
[www.dell.com]

This is bad customer service on the part of UPS. They should allow the receiver to initiate a trace, not just the sender.

This is yet another reason why I like FedEx. FedEx recently lost a shipment of mine and I called in on the delivery date asking what the status of my package was and they saw that it seemed to be lost. They didn't ask anymore questions at that point and just proceeded to initiate a trace for me right then and there. Lo and behold, I received my package 2 days later because FedEx promptly, at their expense, shipped it out overnight to me as soon as they found it.

@TEW: I've had pretty good experiences with FedEx, though they're expensive.

Refuse to use UPS unless I have no choice. They're not good enough to suck, hope they go belly up.

Have had no problem with packages sent through the post office. How easy/difficult is it to file a claim with the postmaster and have it handled in a timely manner?

@savdavid:

I had to laugh. When I had a problem with faulty monitors a few years ago, I had 5ish successive CSR's lie to me and tell me that my situation was being "handled". Finally I found the number for executive help and was told that those CSR's had been mistaken, and that there was nothing Dell could do. Basically I had gotten an RMA, and had sent my defective monitor in for a refund via DHL. It got to the facility, but Dell lost all paper work related to the package, and DHL had deleted the tracking information from their database. In your mind, you must be thinking, "Well, those CSR's could just call the place the monitor was shipped to for confirmation, right?" WRONG I was told by the manager of the call center (in India) that they literally don't have the number of the place the package was sent to, and that they had no way of finding it.

It took a month to refund 600+ dollars because the first CSR, the second CSR, and every CSR in-between wouldn't tell me that the computer showed no tracking information for the package. Luckily, DHL happened to have a microfiche copy of the signature showing the package had arrived. The executive CSR stayed on the line with me while he called DHL, and got the situation resolved right then and there.

One helpful CSR is worth a thousand unhelpful and often outsourced ones. I'll never buy anything from Dell again, but if I had gotten help the first time, that wouldn't be the case.