My security system is dead now, eh?

Why don't we test it. You go outside and I'll set the alarm. If you break in I'll hope to heck the cops get a call.

@wcnghj:
Security system is down you say? Good thing the shotgun still works.

@Berz: Bullets can't declare bankruptcy.

This scam may have been going on for sometime. Several years ago we were called from a "former" employee of the company we use for security in an attempt to convert us to another company I had never heard of. Needless to say we didn't bite on the offer valid or not.

Of interest to your readers, the infamous serial killer BTK use to work for a well known security company in Wichita on the instillation end of the business.

@wcnghj: In other news... wait, what? There's enough of a crime problem that people have security systems there?

Futher - there are enough people being scammed by this (in Wichita of all places) that it's national news?!

@dougp26364: BTK? Is he a rapper or something? Cause if he is, the only thing he's guilty of murdering is the english language.

Hey-yo!

RIP McMahon

Their website is back up now.

The really funny part about this is that I have friends that have worked for Pinnacle...and I drive past their HQ on the way to work every day. The long side of their building faces the freeway and has "PINNACLE" painted on it in 10 foot high letters. They also sponsor a local NBA Development team called the Utah Flash.

Here's their HQ on Google Maps: [maps.google.com]

These guys actually were going through our area in Northern Virgina a week or two ago. I confused the guy when I told him that we rented the place (we don't but that's what I tell all the door to door salesmen) He then proceeded to go through his spiel anyways.

@Berz:

LOL! I wish I had a security system so if someone came to my door with this scam, I could say this!

They are doing this in Tucson too. We had two separate groups from Pinnacle come by a couple weeks apart and argue with us that we did not have ADT security and that we had to sign up for their service. We slammed the door in their face and called ADT and of course we still had active service.

These asshats came to my neighborhood a few months ago and I called the cops. They knocked on my door at 9:30pm and asked me if I had a security system. They were wearing Pinnacle Security t-shirts, but other than that they looked like gang-bangers. Not exactly the best people to be selling a security product.

The Pinnacle Security salespeople were in Portland about 2 months ago saying that other security systems "were easy for burglars to get around" and started asking intrusive questions.

I refused to answer, ordered the guy off my property, and called the police.

Really, would you tell some schmo going door-to-door about the details of your security system? That's a HORRIBLE sales model...

The sad thing is that Pinnacle's salemen are almost all former Mormon missionaries. The company is based in Orem, UT because they recruit most of their salesman at BYU (a Mormon university) in nearby Provo. The company's philosophy is that they can hire salesmen who have already been trained in good sales techniques and in how to knock door-to-door during their 2-year Mormon mission.

All of the sales guys have gone from supposedly trying to teach people about Jesus to lying and trying to scam people just to make a buck. Almost any door-to-door saleman who knocks on your door in the summer time selling pest control, sattelite TV service, and security systems are former Mormon missioneries. I should know, I am a former missionary, and I am ashamed to admit that I did this for a summer. I was actually honest though, so I didn't make much money.

Glad to see this story on Consumerist. They've knocked on my door, too, and tried to tell me my neighbors recommended me to them for a "special deal" they were offering to a select group of residents in the neighborhood. Bizarro.

@Parapraxis: Ah, no.
More like: Bind, Torture, Kill.

@MaelstromRider: Nah. Thugs are the perfect guys to have selling security services. "Yo, dawg. Nice place you got here. Be a shame if something happened to it."

A large dog is the best security system you can get.

@racermd: Yes, Wichita has crimes.

That's about as much energy I can muster for the all too often made "nothing happens in Kansas" argument.

In other news, look for the KU Jayhawks to win the national tourney for the second time in three years next March.

A salesman came by my house about a month ago and tried to get one over my fiance and I. Was trying to say that he was setting up some "model homes" and his job was to just "give" away some alarm system. When I pressed him about if there was anything else involved, he said that we just had to keep their sign up for 39 months. I kept pressing and turns out that I would have been charged about $42 a month! He tried to tell me that my neighbor down the street was paying over $70 a month! Told him that he was way over priced compare to other companies and he tried to say that he wasn't a salesperson, that we was only trying to find "model" homes. Told him to have a sales person come back if that was the case. Haven't seen one since then.

Pinnacle is a Mormon security company that knocks for Jesus in the winter and security in the summer. I think there are two or three Mormon security companies that do this. When I used to work for an ADT authorized dealer, I would always know APEX (another Mormon knocker company) was in the area because there would be 4 or 5 cars from Utah in close proximity to each other. What they are doing is basically a door pitch designed to get them in the door and at your table. That is the hardest part of knocking doors. Once someone lets you in, its much easier to make the sale. The "blank" check they want is not a scam to steal your monies all at once. We used to use a voided check to make the billing paper work faster (it can take over 20 min to fill out). Instead of filling in all the numbers (multiple times) with the customer, we would do it on our time, not their time. You cant do *expletive deleted* with a voided check if you use the proper pen to void it.

As for "still not licensed properly in the City of Wichita" crap, hardly any of the alarm companies do this. Its an extra tax that gets passed onto the customer if they choose to do it. Its so easy to circumvent this that no one bothers with it, but it gives the cops a good tool to chase off any door knockers in the area. The state license is a different story, and the company I worked for at least, would have all employees licensed by Texas to sell alarms. This requires a background check with no felony record.

Again, all these reports of such and such security knocked on my door and said this or that is all a door script. Its hard to sell someone an alarm on their porch. If the door knocker has a badge (at least in Texas, from Texas), its a really good chance they are just there to sell you an alarm, not take your first born and rape your non-effectual dog.

I used to work for Pinnacle Security out in San Diego, California. I was originally trained to be an installer. I moved over to selling for a short period before our office closed. They taught us to use things like "We are looking for a model home and we will give you a security system for Free." There was nothing Free about the systems. I never lied about a company going out of business, but they do use some pretty Iffy sells techniques. I recommend no one do business with Pinnacle.

@dougp26364: He worked for ADT, that's hardly well known in Wichita.

They got a link to verify their sales reps on their page:
[pinnaclesecurity.com]

I guess once you verify that they are part of their company, you can sue the company for misleading information, libel, and slander in small claims.

APX has been scouring neighborhoods here with claims of "18 reported break-ins on your street recently". Well holy crap, sign me up now! Except there have been no break-ins on our street.

Wow! I was wondering if anyone else had been a victim of their predatory sales techniques. About a month ago one of these guys visited my house trying to give away 1 of 5 free alarm systems in my neighborhood. The guy was insanely pushy and tried to push his way into my house to do a so called home inspection. I told him, "Do you hear that? That's my security system. He's in his crate right now, but I could let him out?". The guy turned around and left.

The sad thing is, he was able to hook quite a few people in my neighborhood with what I consider a scam. Why don't we hear more about these free security system scams?

I think this must vary a lot between salespeople. We had a Pinnacle guy come around a couple months ago, and while he did have some sensational "your current alarm system may not be safe" material, he was, in general, fairly straight-up for a door-to-door salesperson. They were offering something I wanted, which was a cellular-based alarm base station (instead of being tied to a land-line), and since I was already paying a monthly fee to a different company which was in the same ballpark as theirs, it made sense to take their offer. Their offer is for "free" hardware. Yes, of course, the cost of that hardware is rolled into the monthly monitoring fee you end up paying, but, IMHO, as long as you are aware of what you're getting into and ask all the right questions, it's no more a scam than getting a free cell phone if you sign a 2-year contract. *shrugs*
(Now the predatory techniques regarding "your alarm company has gone out of business", yeah, that's sleazy, and makes me very annoyed, especially if it's an company-provided sales technique.)

@Maxwell Vincent Crabb: What tourney? cow-tipping? Didnt know it was a sanctioned event.

It is good advice to check your local door to door peddler laws. Plus what consitutes trasspassing.
I love it when door to door sales come to my door.
At the very least, they get to go to jail for trespassing. Since they entered a building without permission. Then if they do not have a Mayor's permit to go door to door, they get that also.

The funniest is the magazine sales. First thing I ask for is the permit to go door to door selling things. Most of them try and drivel. But we are not selling... I politely tell them, you still need a permit to go door to door in this city.
really cool thing. the police respond pretty fast when you report it.

Simple concept - Do not enter buildings through doors without permission. Plus it is marked no soliciting. In the entry drive, plus the call box downstairs. 'Ghosting or drafting' into the building is not permission to enter.

Most of the sale people never have the proper permits to go door to door. Or realize private property is not, public come on in..

I told one sales girl once, "I am calling to police on you. If you are good and legal. I will buy a subscription to your newspaper." She stayed, but went to jail. Silly thing thought she could walk in any door she liked. Private property, means you cannot just open and walk in any door you like. Even if it is a apartment building. Which is well posted and has a call box in each entryway..She didn't have any sales permit also.
They pinch quite a few a year. Especially them kids selling magazines for a trip to where ever.

I love where I live. :D To bad them shady companies do not do what is right and leave them kids in legal trouble. Lying to them as well as promoting shady sales tactics.

Think I am a jerk for calling the law?
Here read this.
[www.travelingsalescrews.info]
[blog.cleveland.com]
Now you see why I call the law. If they are legit, respect posted signs and follow the law. I do not mind them doing their job to make an honest paycheck. Not lying to residents and being scum.

My husband and I were concerned about an "ADT representative" that stopped by last week. The guy had a polo shirt and was holding an ADT yard sign. Fortunately, my husband went outside to talk to him and pointed out that we already have a system installed. The whole thing seems sketchy, as if he were selling fake systems or maybe trying to case out houses, but we did write down his license plate. I doubt ADT would be able to tell us if the guy was legitimate or not.

@o-line: That is why you ask for the solicitors permit. Having the tag (plate) number. If they do not have a permit. Makes it easier to report it, and encourages legitimate and safe sales. Directly at peoples homes.

I do not rely on companies to validate an employee's standing. Unless it is a utility, or services I subscribe to.

@racermd: Uhm, yeah. Wichita has some pretty bad crime. There are even gangs.

BTK, [link] [www.mentalfloss.com]] this massacre. It's no St. Louis, but it's not what you think it is either.

Post needz better art! ;-)

@Hobz: You should call the cops when someone does that. It will scare them off. Plus you never know when someone like that is casing out houses to rob.

@twiddling_my_thumbs: Have you ever caught any girl scouts? If so, do tell. That would be pretty funny.

Can your dog call the fire department if there is a fire? Or will he just bark at the flames until he is burnt to a crisp?

@MaelstromRider: How did they look like gang bangers?

@Corporate_guy:

The way they do it here in my complex. Is in the mail room. They post a sheet of paper, or similar. When the cookie season is around.
You then you call a number they supply. Which usually an adult answers. What is cool. They gives times when it is best to call and how long it lasts.
So far I haven't seen any flyers on the bulletin board for Scout cookies yet. mmm Thin Mints!!
There was something a few months ago for candy for the grade school(I think,) booster or something. I watch for cookies.
All resident sales are done that way. Post it in the mail room on the cork board. It saves the parent lugging the kids around a high rise building. Overall works out great. I know how much time I got to order and is pretty safe for the kids. Plus they do not bug anyone or waste their time.

@Maxwell Vincent Crabb:
Don't forget Dr. Tiller...
I used to live in St. Louis and got that same argument everytime I mentioned where I was from.
I tend to like it here. Large enough to have plenty of amenities, but small enough to keep housing prices down, and keep out of top ten worst place to live lists. IIRC, we are #50-51 largest metro in the nation.

@Jennifer Jordan:
ADT isn't well known in Wichita? I beg to differ...anyway, he would install security systems and then return later to disable them and kill the occupants.

I don't think door-to-door sales are really a valid sales technique anymore. Maybe 40 years ago, in the era of the fuller brush people, but not anymore.

What I always found funny is the "meat guy" with a AC freezer (presumable wired to his DC) in the back of his truck.

@twiddling_my_thumbs:
That is scummy. There is no need to have these people arrested. If they wont leave then call the police but you are using the laws to the extreme. You would probobly arrest a 2 year old for taking candy.

@robkonz1:

They trespass to get into the building. Which is well marked at the driveway and in the public entrance. Which as a call box. If they use the call box. I can use the security camera to see who it is. Security here, which are actually city ploice who live here. Do the same ting as I. they actually advised all residents to do the same. Sop basically. My neighbors asked me to do it.
I pay to live in a secure building. Sneaking into a private building, that is well marked. Is their bad, not mine.
Second mark is they usually do not have a permit, or deny the need for one. even if legally asked to present it.

I do not have them arrested. I call to verify they are allowed to operate door to door in the city.

Tell me how is it scummy to report a trespasser knocking on my door, and them not having the proper permits to even go door to door in the city??? How is that scummy?

According to my neighbors. A majority of the un-permitted peddlers. Are criminals anyways. i.e. - Have warrants and are out for no good. Hence why not following the law in the first place. The legit peddlers get permits, and ask permission to enter the building.

Call me paranoid if you must.

But, unless I have expected visitors, or an expected package, I solve this problem by not answering the door when someone knocks. Nothing good can be sold by anyone selling things door to door above the age of 14.

@Radi0logy: If you want to get a rise out of me, how about buying me dinner first?

@robkonz1: He might bark to wake you up when the house is burning down and the alarms short out from the electrical fire that caused it...