So. Wrong.

Hate to say it, but I'd probably make fake accounts, and give them those.

"no one has removed their name from consideration because of the requirement"

Well, that's a silly way of judging things. Obviously people who are turned off by this thing aren't going to apply in the first place, not send in an application and then retract it...

I know jobs are hard to get right now.. but I ain't givin up my passwords on a job application.

What? The legality of using any info they get seems rather dubious.
Guess I won't be working at the Prehistoric Museum any time soon...

This is legal? Since it's the city, and not a private company that's doing this, they obviously think there's a loophole or precedent.

I mean, if you undergo a background check and your friends express that you may be a shifty character, they can probably deduce that you may go to some shifty websites as well. But they don't need to spy on you for that.

What happens if you give them the wrong passwords? When they call you back, you can just say you had them changed? But they'll probably ask you for the current ones. I wonder how long you could do this before they just give up and evaluate you without this information..

This is an extreme invasion of privacy. This isn't like running a credit check, this is digging through e-mails and having access to financial data. I regularly communicate with Mr. Pi on various topics, including bills and such. I don't want anyone knowing where I bank, or how much is in my account because I happen to mention it in an e-mail planning a vacation.

@farcedude: Watch Facebook declare they're 2x as popular as 3 yrs ago only to find out they have 1/2 the IPs because people have their "professional" page and their "leisure" page.

This sounds illegal, and an invasion of privacy.

How about "We need copies of your car key, house keys, and the time your child leaves from school, and you are not to open any personal mail you receive at home until you bring the envelopes in here first so we can read it"

Where do you draw the line?

And this is why my profession gets a bad rap. I go Hulk when I see bad HR in action. There is 100% no reason at all that they should ask this on an application.

It speak a lot to the type of employee they are seeking. Apparently, they want someone who will mindlessly turn over their personal social data without question. So, who works for the city of Bozeman MT? The desperate? The folk who have only heard of the internet? Those with no social life? Certainly, no one who respects privacy.

@pecan 3.14159265: Technically everything's legal until a law is passed against it or a court rules an existing law a violation of a state/federal constitution.

So this is legal until it's challenged, and when challenged, it'll likely be overturned. Until then, it's "legal".

right or wrong they are doing it, so my guess is people are either killing all of there social media memberships, at least temporarily or just simply not applying. The problem is if no one pushes back on this, whats next?

You know, I tend to be pretty relaxed about privacy matters, but this is WAY over the line for me. There is no way I would give up my passwords.

Zefram Cochrane is retroactively rolling in his future grave.

This is the most retarded thing I've ever seen. I don't even use facebook or tweeter or nospace. Guess they'd just call me a liar and not hire me. Oh well, my credit sucks anyway...

@farcedude: Yeah I completely agree. But I can somewhat understand why people want to see what you are doing to a very small extent. I would never give it up, especially passwords, but there are some crazy people out there. The faster you learn about your new hires...the easier the problem can be resolved.

They still have no right to ask for passwords.

Regardless of the privacy implications, any company that explicitly demands that any security credentials be provided written down on a piece of paper automatically fails at meeting nearly every security standard I can think of.

They would also be failing to meet the legal standards of several states that are not Montana.

Finally, if anything, public workers should be demanding more privacy, not giving up more confidential information.

@qxrt: Also...if I was unemployed and needed a job I would not take my name off of it either.

Can't we just plead the 5th on all job applications?

Seriously, if true, this is outrageous.

I can understand certain jobs searching your name or profiles, but to ask for passwords, which give other people the power to modify your information is insane

@pecan 3.14159265: The larger question in Montana is whether it is in violation of the constitution. Montana's constitution (re-done in 1976 because we can't make up our minds) has very strong privacy statements. I would assume that the state AG will issue an opinion on this at some point.

The city manager, etc should be damn thankful that the legislature just got out of session, otherwise they would have been reamed.

I'm not giving them my match.com password LOL
Seriously this is a little overboard, if this is what is required of new city hires then the public should have access to all of the current city hire's info, it's only fair to make sure that our city leaders are of Moral value to us.

Mr. Sullivan says the City has "positions ranging from fire and police, which require people of high integrity for those positions, all the way down to the lifeguards and the folks that work in city hall here. So we do those types of investigations to make sure the people that we hire have the highest moral character and are a good fit for the City."

Okay, I get it, the new fire chief might be into all sorts of seedy stuff and you wouldn't know it - but I have to say, from what I've read in textbooks and studies, people who want to hide things will find a way. This is why people go "He was such a nice family man," and are surprised when they see police swarming their neighbor's house and find out later he was into children. People find a way. Asking for passwords and stuff is probably just the tip of the iceberg for them because if you give it over, that links you to email addresses, other users, and from there they could follow the trail and dig deeper into the people with which you associate yourself. It's not my fault the next door neighbor is running a bootleg moonshine business in his basement, but if we end up on the same wine enthusiast website, what is the city going to do if I hand over my password, and then the news breaks that my neighbor's moonshine business has been shut down.

@pecan 3.14159265: It's legal if you give permission. Police departments routinely give polygraphs to applicants, too.

According to Greg Sullivan's LinkedIn profile, he's only been a lawyer for four years and this appears to be his first legal job. Prior to becoming city attorney in April 09, he worked in the planning department. It seems he's got a lot to learn.

@LegoMan322: I don't think I want to work for a place that actively wants to play Big Brother.

some general comments:

1. First, no one who has any measure of sense associates their real name with their online names, when it comes to chat boards or comments that have any possibility of being used for unforseen purposes. You use a dummy/spam email address to register for things -- I'm surprised at people who get all indignant about forms asking for your personal information online -- just put in junk crap. (although I know people for whom even creating one email account is a challenge, so who knows if they could manage more than one)

2. So if you've done that, why even write anything down when they ask you? I mean, aside from Facebook or other things that can obviously be traced to you via a Google search. If your online alias names cannot be traced to your online presence, there is no need to tell them, because you and that name are never associated. Aside from that, who in their right mind asks for your password? The person writing this questionnaire is obviously an idiot.

3. And related to that, someone in this podunk town got the idea that they're big important people, and decided to emulate the background check that the Obama administration runs on new staffers -- they have this exact question (without the passwords). But that's understandable -- for a very public, federal administration job with important public relations implications. This is, what, Bozeman, where we want to make sure the manager of garbage collection doesn't have a negative online reputation? come on. Part of the responsibility of authority is realizing where it does not extend do, and excusing yourself from policing that.

@HiPwr: A polygraph is different because your answers determine your results. Giving over your information allows them to spitball it and make decisions based on perceptions, ill context and snooping.

Soooo creepy.

Your google password allows access not only to your email account, but to other services like Google Checkout, which contains credit card information and purchase history. There's no way I'd submit that kind of information for a job application. I mean, its just full of clothes and video games, but that's noone's business but my own.

One would think that a small town in Conservative America would be more respectful of individual privacy and keep away from overreaching government demands intruding into personal liberty.
One would think.

@ludwigk: Besides, if they want to see my Facebook and Youtube content, they can send me a friend invite, just like everyone else!

"the things that the federal constitution lists as protected things"

Like, um, speech and association? Like the things you pretty definitionally do on social networking and e-mail?

@angelzero:I was thinking the same basic thing. As a tech person in a high security industry, anybody who is willing to give their password to someone else is not a person that I would want to hire. The whole point of a password is secrecy.

This hit the mainstream media this morning (saw it on boston.com). The ACLU is having a field day. Also, the city is saying NOT filling in the fields will have no adverse effect on your application...right.

The Terms of Service for just about all of the sites they listed explicitly prohibit users with sharing their passwords with a third party. So by giving the city your facebook login, you're breaking your contract with Facebook and giving them reason to close your account. Pure genius.

Privacy issues aside - if someone is trying to be so precise as to use the terms "any and all" or "to include, but not limited to" to describe their request, I wouldn't infer they are implying that I should list sites to which I personally belong. Are they asking for my memberships, my parents', my wife's, whose? Just skip it and move on.

Then again, I'm not looking for a job.

@farcedude: That's why I keep two entirely seperate online identities. My real life persona doesn't even have a myspace page.

I like the last paragraph of the waiver statement about how the Montana Constitution gives the applicants the right to review any information gotten from this background check & that the city won't let you see the information anyway...
So invasive, (probably) illegal, & unconstitutional.
Amazing. What law school did this guy go to?

I routinely peruse left-wing websites like DailyKos, which would without doubt include quite a few Communists among its tens of thousands of members. Does that make me a Communist? I'm waiting for the first guy to get fired because he inadvertently forgot that he opened an account at Democratic Underground six years ago, but hasn't so much as visited the site since 2004. This policy opens itself up to so much abuse, lawsuits are inevitable. I'll be so looking forward to the hilarity that will ensue.

@kepler11: But they're asking for online social networking blogs, websites, etc. that aren't just Facebook where you can (or not, I guess now) use your real name. If they have your user name and password, that IS you! It doesn't matter that you use a screen name - your act of putting it down on paper for them tells them that you are this alias.

Armed with your user name, they can search your chat logs, they can look through your comment history, they can build a profile based on what you say behind your alias - and contrast that with how you are in public. I can say confidently that I am the same person publicly and privately, but of course a person's word is no longer enough. In some ways, I get it - but in a great deal of other ways, not everyone is out to embezzle funds or steal company secrets or poison Tylenol. Most of us just want to make an honest living.

@pecan 3.14159265: I think they are leaving themselves wide open to litigation if they decline to hire someone based on some arbitrary judgement about on-line activity.

If they are wise, they will stop this practice.

@Sargasm: Indeed. This is gets a big "As if". There's a reason I have passwords on my stuff - to keep people out. Why would this even be relevant to the hiring process?

~I

@HurtsSoGood: Ack! Let me rephrase that. There is probably a smattering of Communists at DailyKos.

@Sargasm: This is a violation of most online services' terms of service contracts that you agree to you when you join up.

Easy... give them fake accounts.

Asking for your google account is beyond ridiculous. That would give access to emails, documents, financial info (google checkout)... goes way beyond wanting to see if there are any drunk pictures of you.

@HurtsSoGood: As in, a statistically insignificant number of Communists.

@HurtsSoGood: This is a funny point, because I read a ton of newspapers and magazines and websites. Every day I read WSJ, HuffPo, WaPo and a ton of other news sites. I guess if the town were to look at my browsing history, they might think that I'm on the fence about politics!

@Xerloq: Technically, if you really want to parse the request, they're not even asking for your sites and logins. Simply personal and business sites.

I'd give them:

IBM.com
Microsoft.com
Joe Shmoe's Facebook
Sara the Myspace angle hot girl I don't know but am friends on with on Myspace.com

But in all serious, I've been on the internet for like 15 years and have signed up for hundreds of sites. I can't even remember 99% of the sites let alone the logins for them.