Can my Mom write a note? B/c if not, I'll have her call this AmEx guys Mom, and have her guilt him.

TAKE YOUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE!

Honestly, they don't want your money. I'm sure there's several other creditors willing to open an account for you.

I would never submit to something as asinine as that, and honestly, nobody should.

Does "reader" refer to the OP or to the charge card? If he's setting up a commercial account for his business, I can understand the request but if this is a personal application, AmEx is somewhere out there.

Wouldn't it be sufficient if his bank provided financial information? I've never heard of a lawyer being asked to verify financial information; an accountant, sometimes if he/she is the regular accountant for the person or business. But if the OP doesn't have an accountant wouldn't his 1040 be enough?

I can't figure out what Amex is looking for but I agree with the other posters that the OP should take his business elsewhere.

Really, just F Amex.

They lowered my company's credit limit from $7,700 to $1,000 over the course of a year. No missed payments, no late payments, no bad info on D&B. They're just trying to limit their exposure.

Is it a larger ding on his credit report to open a brand new account than to reactivate an old account? Is he barred from opening a new account for some reason? Honestly, I guess I just don't understand why he wanted to open an old one. Not blaming the OP here in the slightest, I just don't understand the pros/cons of one over the other. The last (and first) credit card I got was straight out of high school and I rarely use it, so my credit card knowledge is none too strong.

@ajlei: I mean, none too strong aside from all the knowledge I've gained here.

AMEX will re age the account to the first time you had an AMEX if you ask.

I hate to say it, but a 724 FICO is too low for AMEX.

I've got decent income along with 15% credit card utilization and no 'baddies.'

--

My (TransUnion, the one AMEX checked) FICO, according to myFICO.com was 769 at the time of application.

DENIED

I'm not going to blame the OP here, nor am I going to blame AmEx. I'm going to blame the accountant/broker/lawyers for not following the news.

I'll give you the hint here: AmEx just repaid the Treasury $3.9 Billion in TARP funds. [www.google.com]

Yep, when things started looking bleak, American Express turned itself into a bank and asked for TARP funds.

So, unusual request? Nope. I'd send the requests over to the OP's bank now, see what their take on it is. If the bank balks, have their lawyers talk to Amex's lawyers.

Thats why Visa and Mastercard exist. Say bye and call it a day. If they don't want you then you don't need them.

All charge card companies are trying to reduce exposure to small businesses. Business charge-offs now exceed that for personal credit cards, as a percentage of outstanding balance, anyway.

For a no-limit card like an AmEx Green, the danger is even worse. I can fully understand them only wanting to extend one to solid-gold customers.

Personally, I think they are overreacting to increases in charge-offs, but this is not an entirely unreasonable business decision.

This really isn't a customer service issue: AmEx has chosen to raise their underwriting standards, and has simply chosen to deny credit. This isn't some malicious evil plot; they certainly aren't making any money off of this decision.

The solution is to simply find another bank, or apply for a more traditional form of credit with AmEx or another bank.

Seriously, just stay away from AMEX--they aren't worth your time. Many other banks will give you stellar cards. I was denied with a 772 then approved six months later with a 744 AND new closed accounts AND high levels of inquiries. Of course, now I have two HARD pulls on my Experian and TransUnion files from AMEX, the bastards...

This was for the green card, by the way.

@wcnghj:
Well i got approved with a score of 749 and an income of less than 12,000 a year. (I'm a college kid).

How hard is it for people to just get another credit card? You can only beat a dead horse so much.

Seems pretty clear to me - they don't want to deny you without reason, but they also don't want to open an account (whatever the REAL reason is) so they've asked you to cut down the tallest tree in the forest with a herring.

@TheStateOnDVD!_GitEmSteveDave:

You can't be bothered to spell out "because", huh? *disappointed face*

@H3ion: I think "reader" refers to the OP. I had trouble with that wording at first too and thought the OP wanted a card reader from AmEx. Finally figured out that OP is a Consumerist reader that wants to open a normal account with AmEx. Call me slow. :)

"Honestly, is AMEX purposely trying to shun me?"

Bingo: AMEX hates being a company and is desperately trying to commit suicide. Or, at least, that's the feeling I get whenever I read a Consumerist article about them.

They don't want your business. Period. Screw them. However, you would be a fool if in the future they send you an offer to rejoin. If they do, I would send them a letter requesting their CEO personally write you begging you to come back plus a statement from their attorney swearing they are solvent and a copy of their financial statements and IRS reports for the last 10 years.

@Daniel Beahn:
A HERRING!?!

@Bobby Smith: They tend to be very linenant(spelling?) with collage kids.

@TinaBringMeTheAx: MBNA lowered my limit by 2/3 also, back in 2007. When I asked them to restore it, they said they would reconsider, if I would provide proof of income from an accountant or attorney, on letterhead.

@ajlei:

With AmEx it won't matter, as they will report a new account as having been opened in the same year you got your first AmEx. So that can actually mean your new account appears to be older than the original one - if you got your first AmEx in December 2000 and open a new one next January, that new AmEx will report to the CRAs as having been opened in January 2000. They report the month the new card was opened, with the year of the original account. So the only hit to your credit score from opening a new AmEx account would be a hard inquiry on Experian, which isn't too traumatic in the greater scheme of things!

@Bobby Smith:

Not that anyone can know their Experian FICO now (and it's Experian that AmEx pulls for the most part, although they don't really rely on FICOs anyway, they use their own internal scoring algorithm), but mine has got to be in the 720 - 740 range (I think it was 726 or something the last time I was able to pull it, and AmEx haven't done anything terrible to my accounts yet. They just increased my credit line (without me asking - I wouldn't DARE ask!), much to my infinite shock.

They're definitely tougher than they were a couple of years ago, MUCH tougher, but I don't think you can say a 724 FICO is "not enough" for them - they look at lots of other factors before they look at score, and they really don't rely on FICOs in any case.

Ouch on being denied with a 769 TU score, though. :(

@MsAnthropy:

Sorry, I'm replying to two posts all in one garbled mess!

@sirwired:

Sounds like they're trying to do what's prudent. Isn't this what we knocked companies for not doing during the recent debacle? Here Amex is actually trying to verify you actually have the income to support the credit you're applying for.

If a bank isn't lending money is it really a bank?

These people are creeps. Imagine running a small business and you rely on AMEX only to have your available credit disappear or drop everytime you make a payment. What's the point of paying anything more than the minimum again?

If they insist on people being one payment from disaster no matter what, how is this helping?

"Has anyone seen a similar request before?"

There was someone a year or so back reporting something remarkably similar on, if I remember right, the myFICO.com forums. I definitely remember them offering all manner of evidence of their income and AmEx basically being totally unreasonable bastards about it. There's only so much crap a person should put up with from a bloody credit card company, even one that does like to act like being a "member" is something incredibly special you should be slavishly grateful for.

@ChuckECheese: Really, so same as the OP? That's interesting.

Do credit card companies have any reason to artificially minimize their declined-applicant numbers? Because if they do, this is a brilliant way to achieve that.

The same thing happened to my business. We've been in business 19 years with no late payments. Our personal credit score is darn near perfect. We applied for a rewards AMEX and we received a letter from AMEX saying they couldn't verify our home address. They wanted a letter from our employer or our banker verifying our address. As we are our own employers we chose to provide a letter from our banker. We also included photo copies of our drivers licenses. We received another letter from AMEX stating that they couldn't verify our banker. The letter was on bank letterhead and signed by the branch manager. Around our house AMEX is the worst four letter word you can say.

@STrRedWolf:

AMEX didn't ask for TARP money. The government just started handing out TARP money in hopes that the credit markets wouldn't freeze up. AMEX is paying it back now because of the negativity associated with it (again, they didn't ask for it) and to prove that they can be solvent on their own.

I don't get your point.

Honestly, is AmEx TRYING to get out of the credit card business or something?

Between this and the massive purges of customers and credit lines they did/have been doing the last few months, it's a wonder anyone would want to do business with them.

Is there anyone who has managed to get an AmEx card in the past few months? Is it even still possible?

@Joe Lachiana:

They are lending money. Just to everybody, and just not to the OP. They aren't required to just hand out credit cards just because you've asked for one. I applied for a Gold Card a few months ago and was approved in 30 seconds. They'll give me a card, they won't give OP a card. Obviously something in my credit profile is more appealing than OP's. This doesn't make them creeps, this makes them prudent.

And regarding your scenario about running a small business only relying on AMEX? That's asinine. Who would ever try to run a business with only one way to transact? Doesn't sound like you're running your company very smartly. It's your own fault, not AMEX's.

@wcnghj:

If you were to assign school grades to FICO scores, 724 is a B- at best. There are plenty of people with FICO scores in the A range (780+) that American Express would rather lend to.

Nothing wrong with selecting who you want your customers to be. If you're not good enough for AMEX, go elsewhere. I hear Orchard Bank is taking applications.

@Do not taunt Happy Fun King Psyz: Yeah, seriously. No one needs an Amex this badly. They're just trying to get rid of you (who knows why) without outright denying the application. This is the craziest thing I've read all day.

@SRSco:

And AmEx decided to turn itself into a bank right before the TARP money started getting dished out, because... why, then, exactly?

@ChuckECheese: That is so freaking bizarre. I'm trying to figure out why an attorney is someone to be proving income ... why not an affidavit stamped by a notary? That seems more the "proving" thing to my attorney-mind.

@henwy: for the love of god people! he did verify it. hell, the IRS verified it.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): My take is that an attorney or an accountant has the backing of malpractice/e&o coverage if he's wrong, but this would seem to be more a statement of fact than an opinion so I'm not sure I understand their rationale.

@sirwired: Amex is not really a no-limit card. For the cards that have to be paid in full each month, green, gold, platinum and whatever that black one is called, they claim to have no "pre-set" limit but will set a limit based on usage. So if you charge a thousand dollars each month, effectively that's your limit and if you then try to make a very large purchase, they'll probably require pre-authorization. I understand that the Optima card and the Blue Cash card have pre-set limits like any Visa or Mastercard.

@H3ion: is a 1040 a valid proof of income? I thought a 1040 was LAST YEAR'S income. Perhaps he could send them copies of his current pay stub.

@the_wiggle: No, he sent in a pay stub and a copy of his tax transcript. Both of which can be generated in five minutes on a PC.

I'm not sure what his utility bill was supposed to accomplish. He's not applying for a voter registration card...

It appears he is applying for a business account, so asking for a letter from an accountant confirming his assets and income is not an unreasonable request. Most businesses large enough to require an AmEx Green (vs. an Optima) have an accountant. (Not a full-time one, mind you, just one hired by the hour...)

Our OP ran into trouble because there is NO WAY a lawyer or accountant with which you have no relationship would write such a letter. That said, I'm surprised "banker" isn't on the list of acceptable sources.

@LeJerk: It's become a force of habit because I have to take notes from my boss at work. I apologize.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): A notary does nothing more than confirm that a document was signed by the person who claims to have signed it, and that the person didn't sign under duress. A notary could notarize something that said, "I am the most awesome person in the world. [signed] Chgoeditor" and it that doesn't make it true. In fact, a notary specifically doesn't confirm the accuracy of other facts in a document.

@STrRedWolf: "I'd send the requests over to the OP's bank now, see what their take on it is. If the bank balks, have their lawyers talk to Amex's lawyers."

The bank's lawyers don't work for/represent the OP, so it would be inappropriate for them to fight with Amex's lawyers over this. If the OP wants to fight it out, he should hire a lawyer himself.

@chgoeditor: Yes, but an affidavit is signed & notarized under penalty of perjury.

@SRSco: "Your FICO score is too low for us" is not the same as "prove your income", now is it?

@MsAnthropy:

Because there was a credit/funding crisis and AMEX needed to bank holding company to remain competitive. I'm not saying AMEX was/is immune to the crap that all other banks have gotten themselves into. I still have no clue what STrRedWolf is talking about. He's of the school of thought that believes that TARP recipients are meant to bend over backwards for any ol' customer.

Precisely why I use citi diamond rewards american express. They just upped me to over 10K limit.