9/11 Ruins Another Customer Experience
Angela can't get a new American Express card because Amex can't verify her Social Security number. They have to verify it because of 9/11. Since they can't, they've canceled her application. Because of 9/11.
I have an American Express card. It's a regular gold AmEx, I've been a card member since 2005, some months I carry a balance, some months I pay it off in full. I'm just an average customer.
Over the past couple of months I've decided that I'd rather have a JetBlue AmEx than my gold AmEx. So, I've been trying to apply for a JetBlue AmEx. The key word is TRYING.
1- I tried to just change my gold AmEx into a JetBlue AmEx, but itdoesn't work that way (I've been able to change Citibank credit cards around like that, so I did think it might be that simple.)
2- the only way I could get a JetBlue AmEx was to apply, have my credit report pulled, etc. Ok. I'm totally ok with that.
3- I have a security freeze on my credit reports, so I did a temporary lift of the security freeze on Experian, so that AmEx could run my credit report.
4. My application was cancelled. Not 'declined,' cancelled. The online reason I was given was that my Social Security Number could not be confirmed, and so because my SSN could not be confirmed my application was cancelled.
5- I just got off the phone with AmEx's 800 number, to ask about this SSN message. I thought maybe I'd received the wrong error message, and this was a problem with my security freeze, but nope- the temp lift is fine, and my Experian report can be run. However apparently on top of that the AmEx SSN verification system that is used "because of 9/11" (exact words the rep used) could not verify my SSN to their satisfaction, and so that is why my application was cancelled.
6- But, the rep informed me, all I had to do was go down to my local Social Security office, and get a letter on SS letterhead verifying my SNN, and send it to AmEx, and then they would consider my application again.
I have no interest in going down to my local Social Security office, just so that I can apply for a JetBlue AmEx, but I am wondering about the "because of 9/11" reason that I was given:
- (sorry to be redundant, but) I ALREADY HAVE AN AMEX,
- the AmEx I already have I received in 2005. So obviously my SSN existed in 2005 and passed the "because of 9/11" procedures in 2005, so why am I having such a hard time just *applying* for an AmEx?
Can we get a moratorium on using 9/11 as an excuse for anything customer related? What happened to "for security reasons" as a legitimate excuse?
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I thought using the term "because of 9/11" was the exclusive right of Rudy Giuliani's 2008 presidental campaign?
"'dem turrurists ginna get em sum AMURRCAN credit cards? Aw, hell naw."
The representative probably meant to reference the Patriot Act but thought 9/11 was an easier explanation.
Can we get a moratorium on using 9/11 as an excuse for anything customer related? What happened to "for security reasons" as a legitimate excuse?
While I'm generally in favor of good security, I much prefer it to be smart security. How, exactly, does making sure that someone has a valid SSN keep them from hating America and/or plotting bad things? How does this make me safer?
Um, this is AMEX right? Idiots on parade.
Reminds me of the Family Guy when Lois runs for Mayor and Brian talks her into just saying 9/11 as an answer for everything.
@xkevin: Yep- The USA PATRIOT Act imposed requirements for banks and financial services companys to verify the identity of persons wishing to open accounts. It appears that Am Ex is unable to verify your identity and therefore cancelled your application.
@xkevin:
Right. The "know your customer" rules require banks to do a lot more to verify identity to prevent money laundering, and they were passed as part of the Patriot Act.
So, to say that they need to do this "because of 9/11" is not that much of a stretch.
Im gonna go out on a limb and say the OP may have been married or had something happen to her name at some point which is causing it not matching up with their database. She should try and open a card at another institution and if the same thing happens goto the SS office and have them check their records.
What utter nonsense.
She HAS an AMEX already. Her SSN existed in 2005 when she got that one--suddenly AMEX can't verify it???
She needs to go higher on the food chain than CSRs (who are probably outsourced in India) and get a real explanation for how this came about. Perhaps a selectively targeted EECB to folks who might be able to see reason and logic.
@ARP: But why are they having problems with her SSN now, when she's had a card with them since 2005? I'm sure they would automatically renew her current Amex card and send her a new when before the expiration date without any SSN hassle. Why can't they give her a new type of card without one?
Inside big corporations, if you don't want to do something, the convenient excuse is to blame it on SOX. "Due to SOX compliance issues, I can't process that. Sorry." It could have nothing to do with accounting, but departments will fling that out there any old time!
I'm not sure Angela should let this go. I would be bothered by this. Could there be some identity theft going on here some where?
@Jeff Newman:
Hello? Read the post much?
She GOT a card from them in 2005, and it was OK then, it's in good standing now.
She's an EXISTING CUSTOMER.
Man!
how odd, last week I applied for an Amex and got the exact same letter etc.... but I did not get the 9/11 response when I called the helpline. What i did get was an unhelpful person telling me to go to the SSN office, and that the SSN office does this all the time for Amex card applications. I think this sounds more like a "make it harder and then you won't have to deal with new customers, who may not have stellar credit ratings" . (side note: I don't have a credit rating...)
You think that's bad? Recently, I almost lost EVERYTHING due to new federal identity-proof requirements to get a job.
After 10 months of unemployment in this terrible economy, I finally got a good job. I quit my previous job just before the economy tanked, in part because of ongoing harassment and identity theft by another employee. Among other things, my wallet was stolen out of my purse which was in my desk, and with it my driver's license.
When I went to replace the driver's license, I was told I needed a birth certificate along with the social security card I still had because I don't carry it with me - the copy of the license that had expired only three weeks earlier would not do.
A couple of boxes of old records including my original birth certificate disappeared in my latest move, so I had to get a new copy. Only the county couldn't find any record. Months went by with excuse after excuse, and finally they told me an entire block of records was missing, probably from years earlier, when they switched from microfilm to digital. Meanwhile, I was transacting business on an expired driver's license, figuring that once I had an income again, I could hire an attorney to help me deal with the birth certificate issue since no one seemed able to give me a remedy.
No one usually noticed the license was expired until I got this new job, and when they did, I just explained about the identity theft, and once I had to show the police report. Only it seems that the federal government changed the rules this April (2009) and no longer allowed employers to accept any expired documents, regardless of reason. I faced losing the job I desperately needed because of the theft I had experienced in my previous job and random bureaucratic incompetence.
Desperate, I took a large pile of papers including income and property tax records, a divorce decree, and the police report down to the DMV, spoke with a supervisor, and got the license renewal I needed. It seems that since April, they've had to change the documentation rules because a LOT of wallet-theft victims were running into similar circumstances. Also it seemed that "someone" - probably the former coworker - had somehow changed the social security number associated with my driver's license, and this was why I had been required to show the birth certificate (this was a complete surprise). It was left unexplained how this person had been allowed to change the SSN in the first place without showing similar documentation.
A very disproportionate amount of the "show papers" fallout from 9/11 seems to be landing on law-abiding citizens who have been been victims of identity theft and/or bureaucratic bungling, yet states are now offering IDs to illegal immigrants just for the asking. My very scary experience shows that if things don't change, we could end up with a permanent class of former legitimate citizens who have become non-persons simply because they get caught in a bureaucratic black hole and lack a required piece of paper.
Make them delete the inquiry atleast. It was a hard inquiry and those could hurt your score up to 7 points.
@Keter: I hope there were some legal reprecussions for your former co-worker. Could you sue him/her civilly?
It's amazing the amount of headaches I avoid by not using CC's.
@wcnghj: Can/will they do that?
Who do you ask to delete it, the credit reporting agency or the company making the "hard inquiry?"
I ask because I went into a car dealership that I had previously purchased a car from just to have a look at the current models and when I gave the sales person my driver's license so I could test drive a car, he used information (my SSN) from my previous purchase to run a "hard inquiry" of my credit report.
Needless to say, that pissed me off and although my previous experience with the dealership was very positive, I have, and will never, step foot back in there because of what the sales person did.
@smileboot: When people change their names when they get married, they usually go and get a new SS card, which would register the name change with the federal government.
I also don't think you'd bring up the married name problem if the OP was a man.
@WillG: It doesn't matter if she's an existing customer or not. It's a new account and new accounts have to follow certain guidelines.
I'd be more concerned as to why they can't verify her SSN, as this may hinder other types of financial transactions that require SSN.
If Angela is allowed to get the JetBlue American Express card (and therefore free peanuts on all JetBlue flights), then the terrorists win.
I had a similar problem when I tried to get new phone service...Bellsouth said there was a problem because my SSN showed up on another phone account...turns out it was on my fathers phone's account for some reason. He'd had the same phone for 30 years but now they had a new system.
However, they accepted me faxxing in my SS card and that was verification enough. Wonder if the OP could do that ?...its a hassle but at least easier than going to the SS office and waiting.
@squinko: "bring up the married name problem if the OP was a man."
Not speaking for smileboot here, but men don't usually change their names due to marriage, (or any other reason) so no, that would not be a likely guess. Are you implying that it's sexist to know the FACT that a majority of women do choose to change their names and a majority of men don't?
I'm probably a sexist too since I only have sex with women.
Damn us MEN!
@Platypi: I'm assuming in the healthcare industry you can substitute HIPAA.
9/11/Patriot Act/Sarbox/HIPAA: Providing an unverifiable excuse for every purpose since, er, 9/11!
"What happened to 'for security reasons' as a legitimate excuse?"
I'm sorry, you're not cleared for that information, because of 9/11.
I was about to say the same thing.
Giuliani: blah, blah, blah, 9/11!!!11!!, blah, turrists!
I believe any combination of 9 and 11 are copyrights he legally owns. Just like 7 and 11 are owned by Nordyne Defense Dynamics. Or, was that Kwik-E-Mart...?
@Keter:
Not sure what state your from, but this seems oddly extreme. In MA, if you lose your license you can just order a new one online. If you haven't had a license or ID in quite some time, you need to provide proof of self, but not if you just misplace it or get it stolen. Even then there are ways around it. When my brother wanted to get a state ID and couldn't get one because he didn't have his SS card, and couldn't get his SS card without an ID, all they ended up requiring was a letter from a doctor verifying he was who he said he was.
Sorry, but giving up because it was "difficult" to get a new license is silly. And I don't feel that bad that ten months after losing it, that you almost lost a job because you just seemed to think someone should just work it out for you. Sorry, but I'm all for them requiring two proofs of identity, if not more. The last thing I need is someone walking in to the RMV with my SS card and saying "I lost my license, give me a new one."
@West Coast Secessionist: I was just pointing out that smileboot was reaching for an excuse to blame the OP, one that they wouldn't have come up with if not for the fact the OP was a woman.
And don't be an idiot. There's nothing sexist about being heterosexual.
Many years ago, I got a similar line from the telephone company. It's important to ask why it can't be verified. They didn't offer the reason to me, but upon asking, they told me that they already had someone with an account with that SS number, but a DIFFERENT name. So yes, rather than give up on applying for the card, it is probably still important that you visit your local SS office to make sure that your SS is attached to you properly.
9...
...11.
@Keter: That sounds like a horrific experience! I hope things improve for you.
I hadn't heard that states were offering ID to illegal immigrants. What kind of id card and which states? Do you have a link I could follow?
@Keter: Tsk, a sympathetic and well-written story, until: "yet states are now offering IDs to illegal immigrants just for the asking".
You realize that's Fox News poppycock, right?
Alternately, if you think not, please provide reputable cites.
Its OK because the lying sack of s$*t Franklin Roosevelt promised that the Social Security number would NEVER be used for anything except collection and distribution of Social Security Funds. But just like everything out of Washington for the last 100 years a TOTAL LIE.
@YashwantHygieia: Yeah; CSR laziness is running rampant ... while setting up a credit line, the bank told me their records search showed a $50k IRS judgment aganst me (What????) and it had to be cleared up.
I asked for book and page numbers; it took me about 3 minutes to look up the info at the county deeds website, saw the judgment was against someone else (only the lasts names were same; different spouse name, different town, etc.). I printed the document and gave it to the bank. "Oh! Okay, then it's not you." Grrrr.
If I were her, I'd just ask if I could fax them a W-9 (IRS form). Financial institutions use the form all the time to verify SSN.
I would take my business elsewhere...