They know people already hate them. I just didn't expect their reputation to get worse.

Companies like ticketmaster are the reason we need a mandate that the price shown is the final price (aside from tips where appropriate). All fees, taxes, etc should be included up front.

Ticketmaster has SUCH a bad reputation, this seems like an easy $50 that they could spare to create at least a little bit of good will.

But, when you effectively have a monopoly, it's easy to not care.

"As stated previously, you are requesting that we honor a $50.00 Ticketnow gift card with the CODE: 8002-5000-5641-0868 that you have in your possession."

She just called it a gift card!

I smell a lawsuit...

Simple. It says "Gift Card". Not "Discount Code". Not only does it say Gift, but its also... get this, A CARD. Usually discount or promotional codes aren't sent on a card... usually they are within e-mails or just sent on a paper.

Just like stores who incorrectly price items, they must honor that card if California law says they cannot put an expiration date on a gift card. Discount code? Well, if you use this card over the internet, of course you need a code to validate it like anything else.

This is also hilarious:
"You have also spoken with a Ticketsnow representative and he stated that you understood that this was a promotion code that cannot be validated as it has expired."

Of course the agent will say that. Robert only understood that they were trying to skirt the law, not that he accepted that as an answer. That is no way for Ticketmaster to argue their point.

They would of been better off offering a one time courtesy if this was their policy, because Robert does not seem like the type to back down. Good for him.

Good luck, everyone, on your class-action lawsuit. Ticketmaster is so repugnant in my mind that I no longer attend concerts with which they are affiliated.

Indeed...this is a perfect small claims court suit. TicketBastard likely won't show and the default judgment will go against the defendant.

Even if they do show all the submitter has to do is show enough evidence as to how he or she thought the $50 gift card is wrongfully being denied under California law and TicketBastard has to show how a gift card is different from a discount card (or whatever they want to call it). Seeing that this is California I am guessing that the judgment would easily go to the plaintiff.

This is absolutely 100% illegal. You cannot print "Gift Card" on the product and then tell people it is not a gift card.

It would be one thing if they were trying to cheat people by sneakily not using the term "gift card" anywhere. But this is clearly violating the law.

You might be best off calling Ticketmaster and insisting on speaking to supervisors and/or managers until you reach someone with enough sense to realize this.

If you mention that the story is on the Consumerist website, and that you would be happy to update with a message like "I talked to someone in charge who fixed it immediately, the problem is solved", I expect that would persuade them to help.

Calling it a Gift Card does not automatically make it a gift card. California's non-expiring gift card laws have specific languages in governing what constitutes a gift card and cannot have expiration date. In simplist term, the card needs to have cash value, and is limited to store cards only. If you paid $50 for a $50 "Gift Card", it has cash value. The OP did not specify how he obtained the "Gift Card".

I do, however, agree that the words "Gift Card" is very misleading to the least if in fact it is a discount card. If true, TM is referring the "Gift" to the promo discount code that entitles the bearer for a $50 discount, not $50 in actual cash value.

Just wait until you order tickets from them online and you get Barney on ice! rather then those [insert band name here] tickets you thought you bought. Apparently this sets the standard where they can call things 1 thing and start calling it at any time they want.

Believe me, I hate TM as much as anyone, however I would like to see a scan of the back of the "Gift Card". If it says it expires in '05 was this before CA started regulating gift cards? I know now it has to state that under CA law the card can not expire. Or if it does then they have to let you cash it out.

.

Monopoly = kiss my large bloated corprate ass consumers and oh yah nananana. Ticket Master sucks.

A complaint should be made in writing to the state attorney general's office. If the law is being broken they will handle it.

This is simple a gift card would have to have been purchased. Where as a discount codes are 'given' out like a coupon.

Plus, Ticketmaster purchased Ticketsnow.com in 2008. Since this card was (allegedly)purchased well before 2005. Who knows what happened to that information. Personally I agree with a few others, sue them in small claims court. Sounds like you have a case to me.

Time to skip the BBB and go directly to the District Attorney Consumer protection division. TM needs a spanking.

The Ticketmaster rep said that the card was part of a promotion meaning it was not sold to the OP. As much as I hate to agree with Ticketmaster, the card is not a gift card, according to California law. So if the OP didn't pay for the card, then it appears that (s)he has no legal standing for small claims court.

Yah, I wouldn't bother with small claims, I would go for the district or state attorney general. They'll cause real havok with ticketmaster. T

I think exhibit A of the trail being the card that says Gift Card will prove that it really is a gift card. This pisses me off because it truly is double talk. However if the card expired before the law was passed then I think the OP is screwed. If anyone has the text of the law I would be interested because there would need to be a clause that includes expired gift cards for him to win a lawsuit.

Agreeing with previous commenters. I'd say the state attorney general is the best bet. The BBB is a powerless organization, but a letter or call from the AG's office won't be blown off as easily. I had an unrelated issue with a business in New York State - the business sent me a nasty letter when they got my BBB complaint but changed their tune dramatically when I went to the attorney general!

I would hope the Attorney General's offices of all states watch this week site.

Gotta love it. I guess saying "Please be assured; Ticketmaster complies with all relevant ticketing laws, including those of your state." makes it so even when they are clearly breaking the law.

The Ticketmaster representative said that the card was part of a promotion meaning it was not sold to the OP. As much as I hate to agree with Ticketmaster, the card is not a gift card, according to California law. So if the OP didn't pay for the card, then it appears that (s)he has no legal standing for small claims court.

@haoshufu: Considering that Ticket Master sells "Gift Cards", I am going to say that these are legit gift cards bought as gifts.

[www.ticketmaster.com]

@chocobo: Well the threat of posting the story to the website didn't stop them, so a promise of updating the story probably won't persuade them. As someone else said, TM knows they're hated, but they have a monopoly. :(

(reply isn't working)

ecwis is right. from [www.dca.ca.gov] :

Certain gift certificates or gift cards9 sold after January 1, 1998, are not subject to any of the rules discussed here. To be exempt, these gift certificates or gift cards must contain an expiration date, if any, in capital letters in at least 10-point type on the front of the card and must be either:

* Distributed by the issuer to a consumer without charge under an awards, loyalty or promotional program;10 or
* Donated or sold below face value at a volume discount to employers or to nonprofit and charitable organizations for fundraising purposes, if the expiration date is 30 days or less after the date of sale;11 or
* Issued for perishable food products.12

Seems like the first bullet point does apply here.

@haoshufu: What's the difference between it being a discount and having cash value? As I understand it, gift cards work the same everywhere. You spend $30, say, and use a $20 gift card, then you get $20 off and only have to pay $10. NO store will give you cash back if you have $5 left on your gift card, at least none that I have heard of. They all rely on the fact that a lot of customers won't spend that last couple bucks, or they'll forget about the card.

So how is cash value different from a discount?

@ecwis: But the rep said in one of their emails that it is a gift card. And the card says gift card.

And many stores give away gift cards as part of a promotion (e.g. buy a certain item at Target and they give you a $5 gift card that works just like a gift card).

If they're going to claim NOW that it doesn't work like a gift card (despite the rep saying it was a gift card, and the fact that it says gift card on the front), then they should write that plainly on the back. I've never seen a gift card without plenty of fine print on the back. It wouldn't be that hard.

@Mknzybsofh: Gift cards do not have to be purchased. Plenty of stores give them out as promotions. You buy a certain item, the cashier takes a gift card out of their drawer or off the shelf, where the blank GCs are, and they put a certain amount of money on it. The act of purchasing it directly doesn't define it as a gift card.

@MMD: Yeah, the BBB only works on companies that actually care about their image. When people can't always buy tickets somewhere else, TM doesn't care what people think of them.

@Jonbo298: I would bet the Attorney General's office would be a better place to write than the powerless BBB.

" As a service oriented company, the satisfaction of our customers is always our utmost concern."

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...really?

@Christy Casper:

Only thing I can think of is coupons. It will have a $ off amount, hence discount. But the cash value of the coupon is 1/100 cents stated in the fine print.

@djsyndrome:

Umm, if you read our quote, it says the card must have the expiration date printed on the front of the card _in addition to_ one of the bullet points in order to be exempt.

What do people think the BBB is going to do? They have NO POWER and in most cases are protecting the BUSINESS.

Three words for you...Small Claims Court.

Right... because the FULL STORY is being shown here.

I'm just curious, where did the OP get this "gift card"? It could very well have been given out in a promotion with some TV or some stupid thing he bought years ago.

Everyone always wants to get on TM's ass.... but WHERE is the full story? Because I see nothing but implied fault in TM's case here. It's all one-sided bullshit from the Consumerist.

@ecwis: Exactly. TM said that code was a promotional code, and unless the OP can demonstrate that it was a gift card that was purchased by a friend or relative, I am inclined to believe TM.

California law states: "It is unlawful for any person or entity to sell a gift certificate .."

As the card was given away for promotional purposes, it was not sold, therefore it would appear that TM is fully within CA law to set a reasonable expiration date for the card.

@psm321: It also says that the card has to be purchased. Based on teh language, it sounds like this was a promotional card that was given away with a purchase (i.e. buy a laptop and get a $50 TM Giftcard)

CAREFUL, Ticketmaster may prevail. There are exceptions to the law:
(from [www.dca.ca.gov])


Q.2. Can a gift certificate or gift card contain an expiration date?

A. No. However, this general rule is subject to the following exceptions:

A gift card that can be used with multiple unaffiliated sellers of goods or services may contain an expiration date.7 If so, the expiration date must be printed on the card.

An issuer may accept funds toward the purchase of a gift certificate from one or more contributors as a gift for another person (the "recipient"), and may require a date by which the recipient must redeem the funds. This exception is applicable only provided that each contributor is given a full refund of the amount paid where: the funds are contributed for the purpose of being redeemed by the recipient by purchasing a gift certificate; the time in which the recipient may redeem the funds is clearly disclosed in writing to the contributors and the recipient; and the recipient does not redeem the funds within the time disclosed.8

Certain gift certificates or gift cards9 sold after January 1, 1998, are not subject to any of the rules discussed here. To be exempt, these gift certificates or gift cards must contain an expiration date, if any, in capital letters in at least 10-point type on the front of the card and must be either:

Distributed by the issuer to a consumer without charge under an awards, loyalty or promotional program;10 or
Donated or sold below face value at a volume discount to employers or to nonprofit and charitable organizations for fundraising purposes, if the expiration date is 30 days or less after the date of sale;11 or
Issued for perishable food products.12

@chocobo: Threatening to report a story to this site pretty much has no effect whatsoever on a CSR. They have absolutely no reason to care.

TM: "Gift Card" printed on our card actually means "Discount Card" in California. We don't care if it sounds like a lie, but this is our story and we're sticking with it. Go ahead and sue us, because we're still not going to do anything. We're betting on the fact that $50 is not enough for you to bother. Now GO AWAY!

@chocobo: The law seems specific to the selling of gift cards. Did Robert purchase this gift card, or did he acquire it for free somehow? Did Ticketmaster sell it in California?

@Christy Casper: What the rep says in a email and what the card says on the front don't change what the card actually is under the law.

Legally, there very much CAN, in fact, be expiration dates for California gift cards; to give a blanket statement otherwise is flat out wrong. Now there are several stipulations on that, but the point is that gift cards can indeed expire.

The summary at the top of the page is conveniently omitting several additional sections of CA civil code sec. 1749.5 that contradict its point. There's not enough information from the OP to know what the legal standing of the card is.

A couple of notes. Civil Code Section 1749.5 was enacted in 1997, so definitely applies to a gift card purchased in 2004/2005. The gift card WAS purchased, right? It wasn't an employer/vendor loyalty gift? Someone paid value for it? Probably $50? TM's claim that it is not a gift card fails on its face. The Gift Card term on its face means that either it is a gift card (not a discount card) or the purchaser has a claim against TM for fraud - that may or may not be within the statue of limitations.

Perfect small courts claim - they probably won't show and you'll get a default judgment including filing costs.

@Christy Casper: In California, a gift card purchased from a store can ALWAYS be converted back to cash by law. EVERY store here will give you the $10 back if you ask for it.

So if you PAID $x for an $x gift card, you can always cash it out. If you got a $x "promo-whatever" as a reward for some other action (i.e. credit card bonus points for instance), this may have no cash value, and cannot be converted into money.

It doesn't matter if the OP (or anyone) directly purchased this or not.
The value assigned to a promotional gift card is considered into the price of the original item purchased that the gift card was packaged with.
If they had just walked up and handed him a $50.00 dollar card then Ticketmaster is in the clear. If this was attached to a sale of "buy this item and receive a $50.00 gift card" then they are in fact selling this card.
The IRS has ruled on this concerning "gifts" attached to sale items. I don't have the article from the IRS but the IRS defines that a purchased item. They will tax this item.

It maybe a promotional gift card, though, which is basically a free coupon that can expire. I guess my question would be did someone PURCHASE that $50 gift card or was it GIVEN BY TICKETMASTER?

I only ask because American Eagle used to do a holiday promotion (maybe they still do) where if you purchased $100 in holiday gifts you'd receive a free $25 gift card (idea being, buy gifts for others and get this gift for yourself). Anyway, a lot of people used the freebie gift cards as stocking stuffers but didn't tell their recipients that they were essentially coupons and were only good between January 15 and February 15 (or something like that). So, we had a lot of angry people when they came in on Dec. 26 or Feb. 16 to use the gift card grandma "bought" for them.

It sounds like from the responses from ticketmaster that this is the same sort of thing. I just don't understand why the person writing the responses doesn't give more detail - what was the promotion, etc., to jog this guy's memory.

@Christy Casper: Purchasing it does actually define it as a "gift card." If someone doesn't actually buy it (i.e. receive it as a promotion), then you have less of a case because those cards aren't subject to many of the regular "gift card" regulations.

@supercereal: It would need to be less then 10 dollars. "Effective January 1, 2008, a gift certificate with a cash value of less than ten dollars ($10) is redeemable in cash (not a new certificate or merchandise) for its cash value."

This site has a great breakdown of the gift card laws for California.
[www.dca.ca.gov]

@sweetnjoe: Ignorance is bliss around here. Outrage over lack of or wrong information is nothing new.