stop playing check roulette

Did he even try to talk to a regular CSR before doing a EECB?

Did he try calling customer service first? Some banks will waive overdraft fees over the phone, up to a limit (certain amount or once per year, depending on the bank).

Failing that, if you physically walk into your bank, the branch manager can refund them, even if customer service told you no over the phone. Each branch has a monthly budget for refunding fees of their customers. Usually they are happy to do so for you, as long as they have not gone over their limit. This is how it was explained to me by the branch manager at the Wachovia I use.

Customer service over the phone flatly refused to refund an excessive overdraft fee we had, which was caused by a miscommunication between my husband and I on our joint checking account for which we each have a debit card. We both made a large purchase on the same day by mistake and didn't tell each other until we got home later.

Our account was literally overdrawn by pennies, resulting in hundreds of dollars in fees because I had just paid all our bills online. Customer service said they'd refund "$30 as a courtesy" which barely put a dent in it. So I told my husband if that is how they treat customers of 15 years with multiple accounts and a mortgage through them, let's go close our bank accounts. We went into the branch to close our accounts, and the manager refunded all the overdraft fees on the spot. She then linked two of our accounts so that the overdraft would not happen again.

So sometimes what they will not do over the phone, the branch manager has more power to override then the service rep on the telephone.

I think the amount per overdraft fee was excessive (after all, there is little cost to the bank to deny a check), but if you write nine bad checks, you get nine overdraft fees, end of story. I would not have been upset if BoA stood by their decision.

SirWired

i had a bank of america account when i was young, stupid and very prone to overdraft fees and they were always such jerks about it... though my recent dealings with them over my bofa credit card have been decidedly more pleasant (i didn't realize that bills put post marked by the due date are considered late, when i called about the late fee the customer service rep happily removed the it and allowed me to pay that months payment over the phone without charging me the retarded "pay by phone" fee)... i'm almost considering going back.

"She said she was going to refund all nine over draft fees, as well as let me know why these fees occurred."

Why did they occur?

Wow, negative crowd. Let me be the first to say:

Congratulations! Nice letter!

There's more to this story, sure, but if nothing else it looks like an amiable resolution to a service conflict.

@takes_so_little:
I agree, negative crowd. It's possible that when there are no companies to criticize, we need to attack the person or the facts of the story.

I like the letter and will save a copy of it if/when I ever need to use a similar effort to resolve some issue with any company.

At times, using the standard CSR route creates notes in a file which will be reviewed by the next higher level as things escalate. Depending on the tone of the first and subsequent contacts, the moods of the people who are contacted, the comments they enter in your account notes, etc., it may get out of hand by the time you need to make the EECB.

This type of letter with a polite tone lets a concerned consumer present their case to a person who can actually make the decision without creating any damage along the way. The responder has no negative comments to deal with or subordinate employees' decisions to defend.

Good job on the letter and good job to Bank of America.

Geez, if he wrote 9 bad checks, sounds like he has way more problems than overdraft fees. I think he deserves every last overdraft fees for writing hot checks. It is illegal to write bad checks. My dad works at a prison where there are plenty of people serving time for floating way fewer than 9 bad checks.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? This fool writes checks he doesn't have the money for then points the finger at BOA? I am disappointed at Consumerist for even printing this. Way to reward negative behavior!

@takes_so_little: Wow, it's sad that people who feel like illegal behavior is wrong are called negative.

It doesn't matter why the overdraft fees occurred.

The bank did absolutely NOTHING to earn that money. Does anyone really believe that we - their customers - would have a snowball's chance if the situation were reversed?

After listening to months and months of the shady shenanigans pulled by our awesome American banks, in my mind they can eat a bowl of dicks. I am not going to watch report after report on CNBC and CNN and then stomach a lecture from a flunky branch manager about why they have a right to steal $270+ dollars from me.

I was nailed [hard] for a negative $3 balance after US Bank sat on a coffee purchase for almost 30 days [and yes, mom...I look at my "available balance" versus my "account balance." Three times a day.] According to the manager, the missing transaction was the "vendor's fault."

Yeah, lady. Sure it was.

Rather than lose my nut I followed the same email strategy I found on this site along with some serious late-night detective work. Nobody gets to treat me poorly and no one gets to take money from me unless I bought something or borrowed funds.

Lo and behold, it turns out that everybody above "Regional VP" at US Bank runs from customer service like the vampires from "I Am Legend". The very day I sent them a letter I received a refund.

Eff all banks with a rusty chainsaw . I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: Incurring overdraft fees is not the same thing as "writing bad checks." While it's possible that might be what happened, it's far from the only scenario.

The OP could very easily have mis-timed direct deposit with online payment or debit purchases. It's an easy mistake to make, and I'm sure we've all done it in some form. The bank's policy is generally not to debit the smallest transactions first, but to debit the largest first. That way, you eat through whatever balance you have, and several small purchases/trasactions that might add up to less than $30 or $40 can incur fees of multiple hundreds.

On the converse, "writing bad checks" usually implies that you deliberately and willfully tried to defraud someone, by paying with a check when you know you don't have the money.

One is carelessness, the other is a felony. See the difference? There's a reason the bank applied overdraft fees rather than call the FBI.

I love it when people play the "loyal customer" card. Especially where I work. Loyalty with big corporations is paying things on time, and getting the service you expect. If you don't, competition exists for a reason.

The funny thing, is that you could take your business elsewhere, but other banks will know if you close an overdrafted account and try to open a new one. Went down that road once years back and learned the err of my way.

Good job at least for refunding THAT many overdrafts. A CSR could have waived at least a few without having to resort to an EECB.

Say you have $180 in your account. You withdraw $20, $20, $20 and $20. The next day you withdraw $100.01.
They will move the small charges ahead of the large charge giving you 4 overdraft fees!
Now come on! What the hell is up with that!

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: Overdraft fees are not the same as writing bad checks. There could be something reasonable and beyond the control of the person involved. A company that had access to draft off of the account could have had a glitch and taken more than they should have or was anticipated causing overdrafts.

Many banks also run the largest amount through first causing every smaller amount to overdraft rather than running items in the order they came through possibly only overdrafting that last item not nine smaller charges. There are 1001 ways banks game their system to increase the chances of someone racking up over draft fees even if they are on top of their account activity.
Don't be so fast to blame the consumer.

@kolacek: I had the displeasure of spending the good part of a day tracking down a bank error that lost my payment to my internet provider. The funds were taken out of my account and then just sort of evaporated. There were two problems, one the third party company that handles online bill payment and my internet provider. We never found out who lost the payment of the two but the bank eventually made good on their end of it and retrieved my money so I could pay it in cash.
Screw ups are not always the customers fault and getting a bank or a company to own up or even look into what they did can be a painful process.
I wasn't going to let someone just keep almost $200 of my money for nothing.

@MedicallyNeedy:
Your math is off. Even if they started with the big amount first, only one $20 transaction would put you in the red.

@Kimberly Gist-Collins:
It's not always "writing bad checks." One year our company's direct deposit paychecks, there was a screw-up in the system, and our last paycheck of the month (we get paid on the 15th and the last day of the month, always, twice a month) was not deposited. They had to send out paper checks instead of direct deposit and we all had to wait a week for them to mail from headquarters on the other side of the country. Well, because the direct deposit was on the 31st, many employees had mortgage payments or rent payments between $1,000 and $4,000 set up to automatically deduct from their checking account on the 1st. Hundreds of employees were hit with overdraft fees. Not everyone has a buffer in their checking account of $1,000 to $4,000 to cover a major screw up like that.

The company reimbursed us for any overdraft fees we incurred due to their system screw up, we all had to submit expense reports for it with a copy of our bank statement showing the date and amount of the overdraft fees. It only happened once in 10 years I've worked there, hundreds of paychecks have been direct deposited on time without a problem. But it only takes one screw up to ruin it.

There are other reasons, too. My husband and I both have debit cards on a joint checking account, and every few years it happens - we'll each buy something big on the same day without calling each other first, and our account will overdraft by a dollar or two, setting off a row of dominoes (see my post above.)

Or, what if a merchant makes an error and charges you way, way more than you agreed to for an item? Instant overdraft fees. I had this happen to me a few years ago with Enterprise Rental Cars. They took a debit card number in case there was a problem (like the car not being returned or being damaged.) But my car dealership was supposed to cover the cost of the rental 100%. Their was some miscommunication between the dealership and the rental car place, and my debit card was charged $500 for the month I had the rental car (my car was in the shop for a while, there was a serious electrical problem they could not figure out. (Now I know to use a CREDIT card for holds like that, lesson learned.)

Of course it was immediately refunded with a phone call and the billing sent to the dealership as promised, but by then I had dozens of overdraft fees, for all the little things I'd charged to my debit card over the weekend every purchase turned into a $30 overdraft fee - eating out with my family for $50 = $30 overdraft fee, the pharmacy for $25 co-pay = $30 overdraft fee, groceries for $100 = $30 overdraft fee, a haircut for $40 = $30 overdraft fee, etc.

I absolutely agree that this sort of carpet bombing is a good way to get attention, also calls to Executive CS - if you get the right person - sometimes you get lucky and other times you end up with some Exec CS drone, sort of a crap shoot there.

I also find it very helpful to establish a 'sucks' site, I use blogspot for that as it is so easy to put up a blog there. Having a sucks site mentioned in your carpet bomb helps get their attention and they can go look at the site for more details than would be found in the initial missive you have sent to them. My BOA site is found at; [bankofamericageorgiasucks.blogspot.com]

I did get my $100 initial deposit back but it took over a month. In doing research on BOA complaint sites I was totally amazed at how badly they treat their customers. My little complaint was absolutely nothing when compared to all the problems they are creating for their other customers. This firm truly SUCKS!

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: I wouldn't call it illegal-illegal would be holding the bank manager's family hostage unless he refunded the fees. It certainly qualifies as an "Above and Beyond" on BofA's part though.

@takes_so_little: I've noticed the weekend draws out the worst in commenters here. Of course, that could be because Roz pulls the worst of the vitriol before I read the weekday articles.

@takes_so_little: My thoughts exactly. A really GREAT letter: short, to the point with a call to action at the end. Well done!

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: OK-missed your post below. I thought you were calling the EECB illegal. Sorry!

@MedicallyNeedy: They do that to save you the embarrassment of your having to shrug to some guy manning a swipe-card machine that you'll never see again.
The embarrassment of being homeless because the $300 you were going to use for the security deposit of the new place that you were supposed to move into, on the other hand... Well, that's a bonus!

I'd love to see the follow up:

Was it the typical bank shenanigans where they processed the checks in the order most likely to cause fees? You know, 10 checks come in, they pay the biggest one first leaving you almost broke, then run the other 9 that make you go negative.

As opposed to paying the 9 you can afford and then paying the one that sinks you so you are only hit with one fee.

Carey, please see if you can wrest the rest of the story from the OP.

I have a number of accounts with BofA and have for years. I stick with them because I like being able to get to MY bank when I travel and they seem to be everywhere.

That said, once last year (partly due to my poor planning and their clearing a batch of checks BEFORE crediting a deposit that would have covered them) I had 5 overdrafts hit my account. In addition, I had been told when I setup my accounts (with Fleet also) that I had overdraft protection to my savings which I had never used, nor did it kick in.

I e-mailed BofA calmly and nicely explaining my long term relationship, the non-functioning overdraft protection and the fact that if they had posted the deposit first, none of this would have occured.

Within a day, I got a repsponse, the overdraft link was fixed and all my overdraft charges were refunded.

I give them credit. They stepped up for me too!

They must have changed. When I was with them in 2003 they refused, absolutely refused to refund any charges. On top of that, if I went inside to use a teller more than 3 times in a month I was penalized with charges for each visit. I left them and went to a local bank and have never looked back. I am very happy with my new bank who respect me as a customer, something BOA never did.

I hate bofa with a passion. In 96, they made an error that resulted in multiple ODF. They admitted it was their fault then reversed all but 1 of the ODFs. Being a college student at the time, I was extremely poor and couldn't pay it. They ended up reporting me to Chexsystems and I couldn't open an account another bank for 5 years because of it.

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: With the info given in the article, we're not even sure anything illegal was done. I find that everyone assuming that the OP's a criminal without knowing the facts is negative. Wow, it's sad!

@sven.kirk: this.

i overdrew my account with BofA in January totally on accident; thought i'd deposited a check and hadn't. i had something like $325 in overdraft fees on about $125 in charges. i called Customer Service and told them i was really sorry and it was my fault but seriously? That much in fees? The rep was very nice, transferred me to a supervisor, and she refunded all but about $40 or so of the charges because i was somewhat okay with it, it WAS my fault. i didn't have to EECB or do anything out of the ordinary and got almost all of the fees refunded. If i'd pushed, i may well have gotten all of it refunded, but i was okay with what i got.

EECB is a great tool, but it should ONLY be used when all other options are exhausted. Calling Customer Service most likely would have gotten him the same response, and faster too.

Our teenage daughter -- away at college -- is still getting the hang of personal finance and learning some lessons the hard way: the amount shown on your atm receipt or online is NOT your actual balance; when you add a withdrawal to your debit register you had to include any atm fees that MIGHT apply; that if you make a mistake and overdraft (even a penny!) for-profit banks will run smaller checks first to stick you for as many overdraft charges as they can.

We had been with our bank for over 30 years, but when our daughter recently had the "avalanche overdraft" scenario happen to her and ended up paying $250 in overdraft charges for purchases that totaled less than $30, we pulled ALL of our accounts and went to the credit union. No it wasn't their fault that our daughter was irresponsible -- although anyone with very little padding in their account, like college students, can be off by enough to start an avalanche -- and of course they have every right to have policies that are punitive and profit-earning, but why would I want to do business with a company that treats its customers like that? I don't. It's been a pain to switch banks, learn their online banking system, and set up bill pay alll over again, but it will be worth it to support our non-profit credit union and their customer-oriented policies.

@sirwired: Bank Of America rearranges items in the account to maximize overdraft fees. It's the reason I left and why my best friend is considering leaving.

Let's say you have $129 bucks in the bank. 6 small $5 transactions in one day put you at $99. Now, let's say you spend $100 because you didn't balance your checkbook right. How many overdrafts would you get? How much would they be for?

One for $35?

Wrong.

With bank of america, you'd get 7 for $245 total.

They move the largest amount spent to the top, rather than list things in chronological order. They say it's because people don't want large debits to bounce, but with BoA's Overdraft protection, they get paid for anyway.

The only one benefiting from this is Bank Of America at the expense of customers who likely made a simple accounting error.

@kolacek: "The bank did absolutely NOTHING to earn that money."

The bank paid for items when the customer lacked the sufficient funds to cover them in the clear.

Overdraft fees don't mysteriously appear on a random person's account... they appear when the account holder (who should have the financial responsibility to begin with) has total and full control of what checks he/she writes, in addition, wherever their checkcard is being used.

Overdraft protection is definitely something we need as consumers. But, if nothing else, trying to get these overdraft fees removed by a simple phone call can easily wipe them all away.

It is really aggravating, though, to see people get hit with hundreds of dollars of fees after purchasing small, inexpensive items worth much less than the overdraft fees.

@aristan: @aristan: Actually, in that case you'd have 6 fees since only 6 transactions caused an overdraft (assuming they all post on the same day) and the bank would waive at least 2 of them since the overdrafted balance was less than 10.

What you haven't explained is why you shouldn't be charged an overdraft fee when you overdraw your account?

As far as the largest to smallest arrangement of items, it makes no difference how the items are arranged if you maintain your account properly. What it does do is prevent the largest items such as a mortgage or car payment from bouncing. And when I say bounce, I mean bounce. A debit card transaction is authorized at point of sale which means that the bank cannot refuse to pay the charge when it is presented for payment. Checks and ACH items which are the typical form of payment for large dollar transactions are not pre-authorized and so can bounce.

Yes, you're upset that you spend $40 for a $5 cup of coffee because you overdrew, but wouldn't you be more upset if your mortgage check bounced because of a $5 cup of coffee?

@realserendipity: Woops?
Re-Do:
Say you have $180 in your account. You withdraw $20, $20, $20 and $20 AND $100.01. 1 cent overdrawn. 1 overdraft fee.
The next day you withdraw $200. $200.01 overdrawn and an additional overdraft fee.
As all these fees are still pending, they will be automatically reordered with the $200 cumming first then $20, $20, $20, $20 and $100.01 for 6 overdraft fees instead of 2 overdraft fees.

I had the math screwy the first time but knew I could figure it out because they did it to me more then once. The overdraft fee was $30 then. I just got a notice, it's going up to $35!

Re-Do:
Say you have $180 in your account. You withdraw $20, $20, $20 and $20 AND $100.01. 1 cent overdrawn. 1 overdraft fee.
The next day you withdraw $200. $200.01 overdrawn and an additional overdraft fee.
As all these fees are still pending, they will be automatically reordered with the $200 cumming first then $20, $20, $20, $20 and $100.01 for 6 overdraft fees instead of 2 overdraft fees.

I had the math screwy the first time but knew I could figure it out because they did it to me more then once. The overdraft fee was $30 then. I just got a notice, it's going up to $35!

@EdaDiores:
can someone explain how someone gets that many overdrafts ? I mean I don't own a checking account, just savings so I don't deal with checks. So is it basically you write a check out and you don't have the money in the bank ?

@Stile4aly: Actually, it'd only be one overdraft.

And yes, it does make a difference - what if you got overcharged by 2 bucks somewhere, or a check didn't clear that you thought had (or it got pulled back out)

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: He didn't write bad checks - he got checks from others which didn't clear as fast as he expected

@kolacek: They covered debits he didn't have the money for - that's certainly doing something

@ColoradoShark: I don't think it was checks that were his problem, in the sense you think they were - but rather his checks going into his account

@anduin: Simple. You pay all your bills today. But you accidentally wrote out a check for the wrong amount, forgot to make a deposit, or someone else fucked up (i.e. employer not putting your paycheck in it). So the first check that gets deposited lowers your balance to $1.00 (if it doesn't overdraw it), then the rest of the checks start piling up.

@kolacek: The banks provide credit for you when you don't have the money. In return they give you a set of policies that they (and you) are expected to follow.

If you don't want to follow the policies you don't have to. My parents don't use ANY credit cards at all and they work close to minimum wage.

@sven.kirk: more or less irrelevant, because they would have said NO

@coren: You may be right. I'm happy the guy had the fees refunded. If BoA thought they were in the right, they certainly would have dragged it out longer than two days. I'm curious to know in what way they were wrong. Yes, for the fun of mocking BoA but also educationally so maybe I can avoid the same trouble.

@takes_so_little: True. The only reason I'm not fond of this post is because the OP is watering down the EECB. If we use them without first going through the proper channels, they will eventually be less useful. EECBs should be used only when all else fails, not before going to a bank branch and asking them for help.

I agree with everyone else who says it was a well written letter. He handled an unfair situation very efficiently and got an appropriate result. My guess is, he has a normally good history with the bank, so they refunded the excessive fees and also cut him a break on whatever reasonable penalties they may have been well within their rights to charge him.

He wasn't necessarily writing "bad checks." He probably used his check card a number of times in a short period of time without realizing that he was over-drafting the account.

Bank of America charged me nearly $400 for a similar situation. They assessed me with $30-something fees for extremely small transactions resulting in over-drafts. In one of the transactions, I actually bought a pack of gum for 99 cents.

The regular CSRs refused to reverse the fees and I switched to Wachovia.

I@takes_so_little: It appears that the banking industry trolls have carpet bombed the Consumerist. How anyone can defend this and NOT be an industry troll is beyond my comprehension.