So does this mean I can stream my Netflix from my xbox live account on this?

Here's the thing I see about the Zune: It's superior to the iPod.
It has better software and effective hardware, it offers more features and a better set of tools.
Te other thing about the Zune is: I will probably never get one because my household has 4 iPods and too many iTunes purchases to switch.
Sucks to be Zune.

@tmed: I disagree that the Zune is superior to the iPod. The fact that your household has four iPods and iTunes purchases is proof that the iPod is superior to the Zune, because of its ability to be in every household and be easy to use, whether you're 6 or 60.

Uh...what's so great about the new Zune? I still don't see anything that makes me want to ditch my 6 yr old iPod or my WinMo phone.

This is great, the ipod needs a lot of improvement. Maybe they'll pull it off.

As for people who are "stuck" with itunes, do you really think there's no way to export your music, purchased or otherwise? Please.

Is the Zune still crippled with DRM and WMV_only media playback? I've been using my Creative Zen Vision:M for years with nary a hiccup and I can play any media file (except quicktime) without the need to convert it - and it plays and sounds fantastic.

I don't know anything about Xbox Live (I don't have a Xbox) but if you need Wi-fi to connect to it, doesn't that make it a big hassle because you would need to stay put and wait for something to download, and then be able to use it on your Zune? And wouldn't you only be able to do certain things like check messages and such? Or is the Zune equipped to handle streaming video?

@tmed: yeah, I agree with pecan, the only superiority Microsoft cares about is the kind that gets you to buy one.

Whenever I see the phrase HD Radio, I laugh out loud. Really? High Definition Radio? zOMG!

It is going to be yet another Microsoft fail.

@pecan 3.14159265: That's only indicative of better marketing and brand than the Zune, not of the quality of the product. Idiots buy what they see on TV, or what their friends have. Ipods came to market first, and are the "known entity" - all my friends have one, it must be the right thing to buy for me as well. When you want to discuss technical merits of the hardware and software, fine, but anecdotal evidence does not an argument make.

I would consider switching to Zune, but my 5 year old video ipod has never given me a problem. It was expensive to start, but worth every penny and when the day comes that it dies, I will definitely buy Apple again.

@FoxBearDog: Goddang, I hadn't thought of that. That would be wicked sick.

@Gene Gemperline: Why is that funny? It's a real thing. It sounds like satellite, but it's free because they have advertising on it instead of a paid subscription.

@pecan 3.14159265: @pecan 3.14159265:

Yeah I've got to disagree with you there. My wife and I both have Zunes and they're great. I've had 2 friends recently agree that they're better than their iPod, but like many they're trapped in the icy death grip of iTunes.

Apple won't lose any market share for iPod until the iTunes DRM free music has some time to propogate. Until then, Steve Jobs has got the mp3 player market in his pocket.

@I Love New Jersey: Why? This thing looks awesome. I loved my old Zune (although some jackass stole it) The only issue I ever had was the Zune software when it first came out. But it's come a long way and works great now.

So, wait, who's Apollo Creed, then?

@Gene Gemperline: I've heard it. It's better.

@tmed:

Zunes will play iTunes purchases, assuming they aren't DRM'd. If they are, you can pay .30 per song for new, higher-quality, non-DRM'd versions.

Of course, Zune doesn't work on a Mac, so it's not even a consideration for me.

@lightaugust: The Sansa?

@Gene Gemperline: I think the marketing of HD radio is ambiguous to a fault. The "HD," I've heard, stands for "hybrid digital" and not "high definition." Just don't ask me what that means.

If I can play XBLA games and stream Netflix (if and when it comes to Canada) on it, Apple can suck my proverbial wang. More so than it already does.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

The HD radio receiver and the Xbox live integration are nice ideas will score them a few more buyers.

I hope the Xbox live part doesn't make up 80% of the new features, which seems to be aimed at people that already have a Xbox 360 console. I just dont see one going out and purchasing a game console to utilize the cutting edge features of their portable player.

I just wonder if they are going to join the rest of the world and finally provide proper support for Unicode characters. That was actually the reason why I purchased an iPod over the previous Zune, renaming re-tagging my CD rips was not something i wanted to do.

Although, if Windows 7 works well with the Zune, that could be a major factor in people buying it, since the uptake on the next version of Windows maybe better than Vista. A clean intuitive interface that lets you do when you need to do in one or two clicks, that might pull more people into the Zune corner.

Quick serious question:
What does Zune/Ipod have that a generic MP3 player or MP3 playing phone does not? Licensing? Features?

I am a late adopter after everyone else has proven out the technology.

@novacthall: the HD is just a brand name from what I understand. Probably chosen to make a mental connection with HD TV or something.

But, there is a real difference. Sound quality is very good.

Found a wikipedia article that helps explain technical aspects:
[en.wikipedia.org]

Other than HD Radio and 720p out(via additional dock purchase!), it's just an iPod Touch. The OLED screen sounds nice, but I'm waiting to see what Apple does first. New iPods are usually announced in September.

I'm happy with my iPod, and a Zune won't work on the Mac OS anyway. Strangely enough, in the case of iPod vs. Zune, the iPod is the more open platform.

The XBox Live thing is kind of cool I guess, although honestly most of it is "watch this preview of this video game we want you to buy!" and not much else. One of the huge draws of the Itouch/Iphone is the fact there are soooo many apps out there (yea, those "there's an app for that" commercials bug me too, but it's true, there are shitton of apps out there). The Itouch my fiancee has has sooo outgrown it's original purpose of a media player. Unless Microsoft really finds a way to draw app developers to get super creative with this new Zune, I don't really see much of a reason to switch from the Itouch.

I don't know... I want a Zune badly, but I'm looking at a small 8GB version. This seems too big for me, so I don't feel welcome to the social yet.

@econobiker: Extra features here and there, nicer interfaces, etc. If you just want to listen to music or watch a video and don't care about features you'll find with the two big guys duking it out, just get a generic one. The Sandisk Sansas are pretty popular, and inexpensive.

@econobiker: I can't attest to the Zune, but the iPod does quite a lot. Except for the shuffle, all of the iPods play video, audio of all kinds (which means audiobooks as well), allow for you to use it as a backup hard drive, store photos, access WiFi (only available on the iPod touch) and play games.

And MP3 player phones are a complete joke...they really don't have the same quality as an MP3 player has, and people rarely actually get the same functionality.

I considered myself a late adopter...but I've had an iPod for about four years now. You're a really, really late adopter if you're this late to the game.

@pecan 3.14159265: If I were making the choice for the first time today, I would get Zunes for my family. If all of our iPods were stolen today, the insurance money would go to Zunes.

By the time the Zune came out with the 2.0 software and surpassed iPods in functionality, I was beholden to Apple for DRM and video, though we don't watch much on the Pods themselves.

@pb5000: Well, shouldn't that be the superiority they care about? Are you suggesting that Apple makes products they believe in and if the public didn't buy them, they wouldn't change them because they're not about selling?

@unobservant: Heh, Castle Crashers on the go? Yes, please.

PS - So sorry about the proverbial wang. Hope that clears up. =)

@pecan 3.14159265: I love my Sansa. The price was perfect, it does everything and MORE than the iPod does ... and it's a heck of a lot cheaper.

@downwithmonstercable: Cool, thanks for the info. As someone who always bemoans the quality of FM stereo, this may be right up my alley.

@downwithmonstercable: You're right. It's a meaningless brand name that the execs used to equate digital radio with HDTVs.

@econobiker: Sansas and stuff usually have built-in FM tuners, which iPods don't (not sure about the Zune). Also, Sansas and stuff tend to be a LOT cheaper, and have the exact same features (video, large capacity, micro SD slots, etc). I never got the iPod love--it's expensive and you can get a cheaper, better player with more features.

If this were a phone I would buy it

I recently returned an Ipod Touch and replaced it with a Zune. I'm much happier with the Zune at a third of the Touch's price.

The iTunes software absolutely refused to cooperate with me and the iPod. After 2 frustrating weeks the device went back.

I bought the Zune and had it set up and full of music in minutes.

It made me think of the Apple commercials on TV except the Mac was the device with all the troubles while the PC functioned flawlessly.

I have no issue either way with either the Zune hardware or software (except that cheesy "Welcome to the Social" aspect of it) but i think that it will probably be another commercial failure for Microsoft. I just don't know if it has enough innovative stuff to actually be a competitor to the juggernaut that is iPod. It'll continue to be the niche media player as an alternative to the iPod. I think that even Microsoft is thinking that way.

@tmed: I disagree that the zune has better software, if that software includes the interface on the device. I personally found it a pain to navigate through menus on the thing.

@novacthall: I don't think HD receivers are that much more expensive either. I mean if they're putting them in the new Zunes as a standard feature, I'm sure they're reasonable for car units or whatever.

I have very simple needs from my mp3 player:

1) hold about 60g of music
2) play it back for me on demand

That's it. I'm stil cool with my 5th gen 80g iPod. These new devices are for people less Old than me I guess.

@nakedscience: I don't think the Sansa is really cheaper than the iPod. If you compare the Sansa View which has a screen like the iPod has a screen, you get a lot more memory from the iPod than you do with the Sansa. About 120 GB vs. 32 GB with a Sansa. For the same price.

If all you're looking for is the barebones MP3 player, I suppose a Sansa is a good choice since it's about $60 for a 2 GB.

I personally never looked into a Sansa because I knew what I wanted was more functionality, more features, and I liked that I could integrate iTunes (which I was already using to catalog my music) with an iPod, whereas I couldn't do that with any other player.

@superberg: One could also burn the DRM tracks to a CD and then re-rip them back into iTunes. It may take a little time, but at least you're not paying twice.

Also, the Zune not working on Macs is the biggest obstacle in front of me getting one. They seem decent.

@Gene Gemperline: I don't understand your cynicism. HD radio is digitally broadcast radio, just as HD TV is broadcast digitally. To imply there is no such thing as HD Radio would be to imply the sound that is broadcast with digital TV is LoDef.

I think including the HD radio is a great idea. In fact it could make the difference in my purchase decision. The first MP3 device I bought was from iRiver which I specifically chose as it was the only I had seen up until that time (2001/2?) that had a built-in FM reciever. (which is now pretty common - but missing from my iPod Touch).

@pecan 3.14159265: Your reasoning is flawed. The iPod brand, marketing and timing has been superior to the Zune, which is why almost every household has one. Zune's are just as easy to use. It's an MP3 player not a Nuclear rocket.

That said I got an iPod about 8 years ago, it broke about 4 years ago. I went looking for a new one and got a Sansa instead. It's half the price, has more functionality that I want and if it were easier to use it wouldn't have an interface at all and know exactly what I want which no physical or verbal hints from me.

Lets compare the Sansa vs iPod Shuffle, 4 GB vs 2 GB, FM Radio? yes vs no. Records sound or FM Radio? Yes vs No. small LCD display? Yes vs No. price? $30 vs $50.

it even stands up well against an iPod nano.

iPods and Zunes are overpriced and underperforming, but the Zune has been crippled by the fact that for most people portable sound machine = ipod regardless of what they're actually useing so much so that podcasting is a word now.

@pecan 3.14159265: It's not bare bones, though. Mine plays video, has an micro-SD slot (which iPods don't, last I checked), AND gets FM radio. That's not barebones. That's more than the iPod.

@nakedscience: Oh and iTunes sucks, imo. I catalog my own music. In folders. I never got the iTunes hype.

@tmed: I had too many iTunes purchases to switch as well (or so I thought) then both my and my wife's Nano's died within 24 hours of each other and since I've hated iTunes from the beginning we went the Sansa Fuze route (FM radio & recording, Video Playback AND an expandable micro SD slot for $50?!?!) and re-ripped all our DRM'd iTunes music to mp3.

It was the longest 3 days of my life salvaging our library but once it was done it's the happiest we've ever been!

FREE YOURSELF!!!