"60 Days Notice Required Before Dying" Landlord Loses Appeal
The sun has set for Sun Harbour Apartments in their attempt to steal money from a dead man's family. Court documents obtained by Consumerist indicated the landlords recently lost their appeal in a case where they tried to charge the estate of the late Arthur Zissenfor the 3 months left on the man's lease, as well as taking his security deposit. The apartment complex have a 60 days advance notice required before vacating the premises policy and not even a swoosh of The Reaper's scythe could break it, Sun Harbor believed, erroneously. Inside, the local newscast from when the case first went to court.
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haha. that's insane, really? that shouldn't even be an issue. what is it with bill collectors and wanting dead peoples money? not like they're really going to get it.
Link? source?
So, I have an expiration date on my ID card, is that how I determine the date of my death? I'll be sure to give 60 days notice prior to my birthday 2014
I was initially baffled by the landlord's persistence on this--did he really think that courts would agree with him? But then I realized that's the certainty behind all the business reps who sternly inform you "That's policy," as if that meant it had been carved in a stone tablet rather than simply indicating the business liked things to go a certain way. This idiot genuinely believes that he's entitled to compensation because it's his policy.
@UrIt: Yeah but then again if the "dead person" signed something saying that he owes this much death shouldn't mean that the creditors are suddenly out of luck.
This landlord case is completely different but if he had a balance owing on his credit card that should be paid off with the assets left over. It's not like the dead person will need them and it's the right thing to do.
Ugh. You know this will suck for future renters for the apartment. The owner is probably now going to add 'must give 60 days notification of abandonment or DEATH' and hopes that the new verbiage will allow them to reap whatever money they can pry from the cold dead fingers of their tenant's corpses.
Keep appealing all the way up to the supreme court! Considering the family won attorney's fees last time, and I bet they will this time, Sun Harbour might just go broke trying to win! :D
The Texas Apartment Association lease specifically states that death does not release you from the contract. Thoughtfully,if you are the sole resident, then upon your death it will allow you to break the lease with no penalty but you have to give a 30-day written notice.
(Paragraph 22)
hehehe!
Google Texas Apartment Association Lease and it's the 1st link (PDF)
@stacy75: I am giggling right along with you. Thanks for the link. I am going to let my Texas friend know about it.
@nybiker: I was in property management for 12 years and I always pointed out that particular paragraph in the lease and snickered along with the new tenant. It seemed so absurd. None of the management companies I worked for would have ever enforced it, I don't think.
Okay, Consumerist, what are the generally accepted practices for rent in a death situation? It would seem at least some states have passed laws about this. Of course, as long as you prepaid on the 1st, the current month is covered.
@dave_coder: that is how it works. if the landlord was owed back rent, he would have been able to collect. what the landlord was trying to collect was rent AFTER the renter died. dead people can't incur debts. death nullifies the contract. i think that's fair.
@LiC: Uh.
Court documents obtained by Consumerist
Do you honestly think the Consumerist is going to make this up?
I worked for a property management company in Houston for several years, and we had to deal with the death of a resident a few times.
The lease contract specifically states that death will not release the contract, but I was ALWAYS told by my supervisors that we would let someone (or their family) out of the contract in case of death.
The way we typically handled it was that once a person was deceased we would allow the family to cancel the lease contract effictive immeadiately by writing a note and attaching a copy of the death certificate. We would always give them through the month that was already paid, and usually up to a week or so more to remove belongings if they needed it. (It was a relatively large property, so there were always at least a few vacants, so this didn't mess up our occupancy rates.)
If the family needed more time than that to clean out the apartment, we would charge them by the week.
I always felt the companies policy on dealing with deceased residents was above and beyond.
Are landlords going to be able to use this to insist on physical exams for renters? I know the tennant in the story was murdered, but what if another dies from smoking?
@Brandi Hendrix: I think it's a little sketchy, then, to put terms in the contract that you know you couldn't or wouldn't ever enforce.
@W10002: they can write anything they want on the lease. it still has to be reasonable according to a court of law.
@crashfrog: Texas apartment companies (Brandi said she was in Houston at the time) almost universally use the standard TAA lease, since lots of lawyers have hashed out lots of details on that contract over lots of years. The clause is included in that standard contract, and I'm guessing that it's not an issue in the majority of leases so it's easier to be nicer than the standard contract on this point but continue to use it.
@takes_so_little: I don't see how you could possibly jump to that conclusion. There would be no way that places would be allowed to discriminate based on medical data. It's private information protected by federal law. Do you think that scummy landlords would want to open themselves up to that kind of lawsuit?
Apartment complex management agencies are the worst scum of the universe. Worse than lawyers. (OK, maybe not misogynist late-night-commercial divorce lawyers. Or record companies.)
@RandomHookup: If you have back rent, or whatever, then your estate should take care of it. But you shouldn't be forced to pay for anything else. Because you're dead.
@Lucky225: And I'll be there to make sure that date is accurate! :P
Yeah, I know that's a tasteless joke, but I had to take it. My apologies if I offended anyone.
@krom: I find it depends on the agency, if they're local and only own a few properties, they're okay, but once they start owning properties in multiple states, they suck more than a hoover. I'm looking at you AIMCO.
@nakedscience: But your stuff isn't and it will occupy space for a period of time. And your estate can't always empty your apartment in a couple of days...sometimes it might be months.
@takes_so_little: I usually administer the physicals myself. I make sure the stirrups are properly warmed for your comfort.
I for one would prefer to deal with a larger apartment management company than a small scale local landlord. Most of the bad stories I hear about stuff like illegally withholding security deposits and delaying repairs seems to happen with small-time landlords who have a greater personal incentive to try to screw you over. The local manager for a big property company has much less incentive to try and ding you for stuff like that since he has less at stake personally, he doesn't control the account your money is in and the money to fix your broken toilet isn't coming out of his pocket.
@My father was a service droid!!!: Sure, creditors can bill the estate for debts. The landlord was trying to bill the family for future rent.
There should be more laws to protect consumers against fraudulent debt collection. Apparently collectors can say pretty much anything they want to try and scare people into paying up. I think it should be up to them to be aware of the rights of the person, and if they allege something that isn't true, the person being accosted should automatically reap some fines from them.
@squinko: "I don't see how you could possibly jump to that conclusion."
You really think I'm underestimating... LANDLORDS?*
*Yes, I know there are probably some good ll's out there.
The Texas law on "no death release" is not unusual; it is likely to make sure that any damages or 'non-normal' assessments are covered by the deceased's estate rather than for any rental charges.
The immediate issue that comes to mind is someone who dies in an apartment fire that they are the proximate cause of. Insurance may cover it, but they will want to subrogate the cause of the fire/water damage.
Sure, they can go civil if need be, but the 'no death release' would seem to eliminate a lot of the bureacratic overhead in doing so on an estate.
@Cyberxion101: There isn't a link. Anywhere. Telling someone to Google something =/= link.
Look! A LINK!
I would think that since the company "American Coastal Realty", the Owner of Sun-Harbour apartments has filed against peoples estates three times, in 2007,2008 and 2009 that they must have some success in getting people to " settle the lawsuit" with them
@Cyberxion101: That's my point though. Good landlords/rental companies wouldn't do something like that, and scummy ones wouldn't want to open themselves up to that kind of liability.
@krom: Oh, I know you. You're that guy who comes up to me drunk at a party, makes a dumbass lawyer joke, and then five minutes later wants free legal advice.
@GearheadGeek: Exactly. We used a standard Texas Apartment Association lease contract, as does most every place. Everyone is better protected that way, rather than having some landlord draw up his own contract.
I imagine there are reasons to leave the death clause in there. It protects the management in the event that someone dies and his family doesn't pay or move their stuff out of the apartment. You can only be nice and understanding for so long while you are losing money.
@krom: generalize much? I worked in property management and had a great experience. I loved the residents and often did went out of my way for them, as did almost everyone I worked with. I'm sorry you have had an obviously bad experience, but no need to act like the entire industry is made of the scum of the earth. That is just insulting to the people who do that professionally.
But the real question is, did the fluids from Arthur's decomposing body drip on the face of the tenant downstairs?