Would Practical Wisdom Improve Customer Service?
Barry Schwartz spoke at TED this past February about "practical wisdom," a classical term that Schwartz redefines in a modern context as knowing when and how to make exceptions to every rule, and when and how to improvise. His point, largely, is that a lot of modern life would run more efficiently, and more justly, if people would stop blindly following and enforcing rules when they become absurd.
Schwartz notes that when things go wrong, we either go for rules or incentives—but that neither "are enough to do the job." If you rely too much on rules, moral skills are chipped away, and the desire to do "right" atrophies. If you offer new incentives to get something done, you risk undermining the original incentive. Instead, you have to acknowledge and celebrate moral exemplars. Can you imagine if a call center shifted away from overscripted, factory-style rules and instead pushed its employees to serve the interests of both the business and the customer as well as possible, with guidance from trained experts? Those employees would even carry that wisdom with them to other jobs—or be promoted up within the company.
Schwartz also points out that knowledge without wisdom is not very useful to mankind, which of course anyone who's seen The Dark Crystal already knows.
It's a 20 minute talk, so if you want to download it as a video or mp3 file, go here.
Yeah, we know, we missed this the first time around a couple of months ago.
"Barry Schwartz: The real crisis? We stopped being wise" [TED]
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Ha. It might help, but the big thing would be teaching cs reps not to assume everyone on the other end of the line is an idiot or the scum of the earth, and certainly not to start off treating them as such. Also, although possibly linked with the rules thing in this video, not to get so peeved when someone asks a question that wasn't anticipated in the script.
This sounds like it's right on the money, and expresses a lot of things I've said for awhile. Mindless obsession with rules is a hallmark of authoritarianism, over-obsession with bureaucracy, and stupidity. It's infected corporate America badly, and it's even worse in the public schools (largely because public schools are a place where the people being governed by the mindless rules have little recourse or right to stand up against them).
Unfortunately, I don't feel like watching a 20 minute video right now. Anyone else annoyed by the proliferation of video news and articles online? At the very least, transcripts should be included as an alternative, as I can read a helluva lot faster than I can watch a video of someone talking.
I just had a vision of faceless companies sending hordes of Garthim to capture our wallets so their Skeksis masters can drain their essence to fuel their evil magic.
Outsourced call centers will never be able to rise to this level, regardless of how good the idea is. The centers have people who simultaneously render services for multiple companies, and all they CAN do is read a script, for lack of any specific knowledge.
In addition, it is virtually impossible that these undertrained overtasked individuals will be given any type of unilateral discretion.
The only way to outsource is through a script. Once the outsourcing ends, only then can Mr. Schwartz's ideas ever hope to be put into play.
@johnva: I tend to think talks like these lose a lot if they were just put into a transcript or article, which is why they don't write up the transcripts themselves.
If by "when to make an exception to every rule" you mean "when they apply to me" then yes. Cause I am a special, delicate flower.
@jdmba: Perhaps companies shouldn't be outsourcing something as central to their business as talking to their customers. I understand the theoretical business case of outsourcing things that aren't part of their core business competency, but no business wants to piss off their customers.
The problem is not outsourcing per se; it's the idea that people who are untrained and unskilled in a company's actual business can make competent customer service personnel.
@Riddar: Maybe so, but I still think that news sites should have both options. I'm not against video...I'm against it being the only method of accessing the content.
@Wit is periodically disensouled:
I have to disagree. I think the 'big thing' would be convincing megacorporations not to fire CS reps for making exceptions. CS reps would probably be a lot less cynical if they didn't have to treat everyone on the other end of the line like an idiot because they will get fired if they do not.
@johnva:
I bet that's because a lot of corporate workers are in the same boat as me;
My boss wants unquestioning, immediate obedience first and foremost. A team of people doing exactly what the boss says is a sign of secure power (which leads to money and more power).
Anything or anyone who goes against this culture is "dealt with" (fired, forced out, etc).
The rest of us have learned to obey and never question, no matter what we know or have experienced before. Even if we're right, even if we save the company a ton of dough - we've disobeyed. And that will not be tolerated.
@runswithscissors: And this is exactly the attitude that has to change before front line employees can have any meaningful autonomy.
@NightSteel: Agreed. If I were running a business, I would try to institute a "no drama" workplace rule and fire anyone who violated it.
But that would not be profitable.
@NightSteel: I have to disagree with both of you. :)
The "big thing" would be to hire people actually capable of making decisions (with guidance and within parameters) and not trying to pay the lowest wage possible by hiring people who maybe have a high school education and who have no work ethic.
I could go into a big long story about when CompUSA started their new call center circa 1999 and the incompetents they hired because they couldn't find good people to work at minimum wage...let's just say it was a beautiful disaster.
All the scripts and the rules exist so as to help companies reduce their liablities. Well meaning advice given from a CSR's point of view can at times do more harm than good even though not intended that way.
Not to say that CSRs should not be given latitude as it does help but you know how corporations are, cover the bottom line above all else!
@RecordStoreToughGuy: Let's play into the partisan hatred with this. Aughra = Obama, or Aughbama, if you will. Garthim are congresscritters. That would make normal citizens the Podlings. The Skeksis must be bank CEOs (and their ilk). I'll give Kira as Oprah Winfrey. Who, then, are the urRu (Mystics)? Who is Jen? Most importantly, who is Fizzgig?
@Acolyte: Correction: "cover the short term bottom line above all else". Bad customer service can erode the business' brand in the long term.
@johnva: Yep. Were that boss working for me, and I got wind that he could have saved the company a significant amount of money but didn't because he viewed it as a challenge to his authority, he'd be out on his ass, and the guy who had the good idea in the first place would be replacing him.
@Canino: Ding Ding Ding! Add that they should also stop hiring people who regularly come home on their lunch break, smoke a bowl and then go back to work (yes I knew call-center workers who did this) and things might get better.
People who work in call centers are mostly unable to be trusted to make good decisions for the betterment of a company which is why a script is given to them. They can't be allowed to have the discretion to "do the right thing" because people would walk all over them for discounts which is why the system operates as it does.
@Canadian Impostor: The assumption is that practical wisdom would disallow discounts as a general procedure, and only be used when it really applies. Here's an example of practical wisdom from CSR reps.
A customer had just signed up for a new phone account, and then discovered he had to go to India, on family matters. So we called up Rogers, and asked if there was anything that could be done for the 3 months he'd be in India. The reps gave him a 3 month credit, and extended his contract by 3 months, thus making his trip be cost-free for his canadian cell-phone account. That is the kind of thing CSR reps should be allowed to do. Happy customer, positive story.
@Canino: Agreed!
When the managers of the call center I worked at in the '90s decided they needed to save money, they made the decision to slash new hire salaries by _not_ hiring college graduates and instead going after the barely-made-it-out-of-high-school crowd. Result: their employee turnover quadrupuled, customer satisfaction dropped through the floor, and the call center essentially fell apart.
There's an old saying: "If all you pay is peanuts, pretty soon you'll only be able to hire monkeys."
@Canadian Impostor: And how come the people who work in call centers can't be trusted? Because the managers hired the lowest-wage employees they could find, people with little-to-know education or work ethic.
If a call center employee had Knowledge and wisdom, one would hope that it would be enough to escape employment at a call center..
Alternate article photo: Aughra shouting "QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, TOO MANY QUESTIONS!" into a headset.
@johnva: "Anyone else annoyed by the proliferation of video news and articles online?"
Yes. I skip a lot of sites/news stories that have video/audio only. I can't always have noise going at my computer, and it takes for freaking ever.
@PHRoG: i just love that picture because my mom's friend worked on skeksis construction under jim henson.
There's an interesting word I found out about in Britain, called 'jobsworth.' Pretty much summarises the whole idea about blindly following rules.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Definitely need this word in the USA.
@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): It's also usually lighter on the actually deep content, just like television news vs. say, a newspaper.
@johnva: I'm with you on both points:
Championing mere obedience to rules above what makes the most sense economically, ethically, practically and intellectually is the best way to ruin your business or organization, and there needs to be a whole lot less of it in this country.
And I'd really love it if more websites put transcripts with their videos, as I love to read articles but usually prefer not to have streaming video and audio going at work, plus it takes up a lot more time.
@runswithscissors: Ohh shit...we must have worked together before...I am usually the one who is "forced out" due to the fact once a boss shows me that all they want is power, I have no respect for them and never will...
I hop around from job to job....donations?
@Canadian Impostor: No, a script is usually given because it's cheaper than actually training folks about the products.
At one Seattle company's call center, we gave frontline staff actual company credit cards and access to other financial resources to help them resolve any exceptional customer issues. Not a card at the supervisor's desk, not something they had to ask for and get permission to use, an actual plastic card they could whip out and use to make things right.
The guideline: Use your best judgment, but keep the customer.
Yes a form had to be filled out (it's still a business, of course there were forms) and yes, there was review. If someone dropped a few grand on a customer issue, we'd certainly want to know why, but we didn't sweat the (relatively) small stuff and just assumed the rep was doing the right thing.
We figured that the card would be used to cover about four percent of customer issues, but in reality it was used less than one percent of the time. What we did see were reps making more and better use of other tools we had provided (the card accompanied a sea change in call center policy, it was part of other training and "empowerment" initiatives) knowing that they could do anything they needed to do to keep the customer. Morale and confidence spiked dramatically.
Give people on the job some dignity and trust and respect and even if you're not at the top of the pay scale, they'll do a lot more for you and in turn, for your customers. It wasn't rocket science to figure this out.
What is the most annoying sound in the world? The opening cacophony of every TED video. That is the most annoying sound in the world.
This will never happen.
The insatiable desire to quantify and benchmark will not allow it.
I have worked in a number of call centers and so has my mom.
Some people evidently have no understanding of how much of an iron grip METRICS have on call center mgmt.
SCRIPTING also rules over call centers because it is embedded in call QA procedures.
Finally, the general attitude towards phone reps is very poor- uneducated, slackers, mouth-breathers, etc.- even inside a company. Then there is the prevalent view that call center work is something you only do for awhile then move on when you can. When this is the view you take of them, employee development takes a back seat to flogging them over METRICS and SCRIPTING.
That's the real world. The company doesn't care about you, they care about profit, and they care about making you think they care. Same goes for the employee.
Consider telecommuting. Companies can't bring themselves to do it. Not even the federal government can get more than 2.5% of its workforce telecommuting, even with formal programs in place and a target adoption rate of 10%. Why? Because American management doesn't trust their employees. The chump sweating away on the hamster wheel getting nowhere is valued more than the guy who finished his work and chilling out- OMG you aren't working we are going to write you up!!! Get off that d--- internet and do something!!! Oh you finished your assignments? Go sweep the bathroom!!!
No, no. The term you are looking for is "less profitable."
Companies have profited for decades on the face-to-face model. Then they started firing up Excel to see where they could cut costs, and didn't think about the consequences.
I had to deal with this as an addiction counselor at Free and Clear (phone based quit smoking support). I had to ask questions that had painfully obvious answers - like asking a someone who says they have 3 months to live if they are planning to get pregnant in the next 3 months - if they don't answer they don't get nicotine patches - If I don't ask I could lose my job. The wisdom is there some of the time, you're just not allowed to use it for liability reasons it seems. Can't stand it!
@PHRoG: One of my favorite movies as a kid! Just bought the DVD for my own kid, who is eight.
I love how many of the strange plants and animals in the forest are modeled after ocean creatures. Really neat idea.
Yeah, great idea, but will never happen. Companies are not interested in actually delivering customer service. This is why the system is designed to prevent any actual customer service from taking place.
I just love that this is below the story about the guy at Jimmy John's being told that he couldn't have Dijon mustard because there wasn't any, despite the fact that the mustard was in front of him and he offered to pay for it.
So Barry Schwartz is advocating deregulation?
Hahaha...Dark Crystal FTW!!!!