Virgin Mega-Liquidation: All Sales Final, Even On Defective Merchandise
Regular readers of the site already know this, but we will tell you again anyway — in a liquidation "all sales are final" means just that. You will not get an exchange if your item is defective. Period. You lose. Good day, sir!
Virgin's spokesperson told the Denver Business Journal that it was time to say bye-bye to their return policy:
"The safest way to put it is, all the stores are going bye-bye, so all sales are final," said a spokeswoman for Virgin Megastores.
You have been warned.
Buyers can be left holding the bag when stores liquidate [Bizjournals]
(Photo:AanikaP)
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Comments:
No mention of Fizzy Lifting Soda?
Are there not any US/state laws that mean putting up a "all sales final" does not absolve the retailer of their obligations under the law to provide goods fit for the purposes sold?
Damn, I saw the words sale and virgin and well....never mind.
@masonreloaded:
The US is a strange place. Sanctity of contract is rather weak provided the party wishing to break the contract is sufficiently large.
But to be fair, for a liquidation sale, the whole point is to liquidate absolutely everything anyone might find valuable, including defective merchandise.
@masonreloaded: I don't know about any place else, but Michigan does. It's called the "Buyer's Regret" law: any purchase can be returned to the store within 24 hours, for any reason, as long as the buyer can produce a receipt or other proof of purchase.
you've got to be one dumb motherf***** to try and return something thats on final sale.
@exconsumer9: That's assuming the buyer is aware of the defects. Sometimes the buyer is not allowed to inspect the contents of the box until after purchase, which essentially is useless in liquidation sales.
wow, where the eff have i been? never even knew they were closing their stores! not much of a loss though. their prices were obscenely expensive.
Not kidding when I say that I'm sitting in my Dionysos art history class where we are comparing Dionysos and Willy Wonka and we just... i mean JUST... discussed "You lose. Good day, sir!".
Oh, Consumerist.. <3
Idiot.
@internetsguy:
Then don't pay more than the price you'd be willing to pay if the merchandise in the box were in the worst condition you can imagine.
A liquidation sale is a sort of reverse auction. The price goes down until someone is willing to buy the product (or too stupid to know better). Thus the price is driven by buyer demand, and the buyers should factor the risk of receiving a broken product into the price they're willing to pay.
If you can't deal with the risk, don't buy anything at a liquidation sale.
Sometimes the manufacturer will make good on their warranty if you just bought something but it's still a risk and hassle.
Pay with credit card. If it's defective, do a charge-back.
@masonreloaded: The Uniform Commercial code has what you want. The "Implied warranty of merchantability" says that goods must be "fit for ordinary purposes."
The might wiki also says you can waive this warranty specifically BY NAME, or with specific terms like "as-is" or "with all faults."
It doesn't sound like signs reading "No returns" or "All sales are final" would waive this warranty.
I've never agreed with the notion that defective merchandise is exempted from returns just because someone puts up a sign.
Do they mark defective merchandise clearly as "Defective"? No. Do they allow you to open and inspect the product? No.
The only other option is to assume that every item at a going out of business sale is defective, and price based on that assumption. Which of course nobody does.
@humphrmi: Given the possibility of defective goods, and not being able to return them, I would need AT LEAST 80% off of a competitive price to shop there. That is, 80% off of Amazon's list, not MSRP. Of course, this liquidation affects me none, since I don't shop at Virgin.
Buyer beware. Just don't shop at liquidation sales for anything that you may need to return if something is wrong with it, that you can't determine at the time of purchase.
@ludwigk: I totally agree with this, it better be at yard sale prices for me to buy it if the merchandise is potentially broken and I am not allowed to inspect it to see what is actually in the box if its in a taped up carton. In fact I would probably be better off at a yard sale because I have bought many things from yard sales and people seem to be honest about what they are selling, at least around here. People usually throw out broken merchandise and only put out what is actually working and usable. Now thrifts and other sales are not as reliable but when you are buying something directly out of someone else's house it seems you are usually getting what they tell you you are getting. If something is broken there is a 99% chance they have it marked as broken as well.
For yard sales I use the rule pay only the price you would pay if the item is broken, if you cannot determine the functionality of the item at hand. This would definitely apply at an anything goes liquidation sale, and most likely I would not buy anything because the price would not match what I am willing to pay. Either that or make sure you are getting enough stuff for one price to cover the cost of the potentially useless items.
@masonreloaded: Here in NH there is a law that says anything sold must be able to perform its intended purpose or you can return it.
Liquidation sales are a good lesson in how not to spend your money. You are put at notice, in advance, that whatever you're buying might or might not be a box of useless broken crap.
Only buy things that you can see. In the recent Circuit City liquidation, I bought several computer cases for about $5 each. No need to check to see if they work. But I could check to see that zippers, straps etc were intact.
You can sometimes safely buy stuff which a manufacturer's warranty will cover, however that's often a crap shoot too. I've seen instances where manufacturers denied claims because the seller (the liquidator) was not an authorized reseller, or where it was obvious the damage was caused by improper handling.
I have no sympathy for anybody that ends up with a box of broken parts. They warned you ahead of time, that in exchange for a "good deal", they knowingly take this risk. It's posted all over at every liquidation I've ever seen.
We don't need a law to legislate what should be common sense. If people stopped buying stuff they weren't allowed to inspect, liquidators would eventually have to change their policies.
@drdom: bla bla bla, the store MUST accept a return for something sold as a working item, if it is actually broken.
no store clause overrides that.
if its broken they have to take it back, unless it was SPECIFICALLY marked as broken BEFORE it was sold.
When CompUSA was closing, they actually did have defective merchandise that was marked as defective - including a router with a sticker that said "dhcp broken" and a desktop that was tagged as having a dead hard drive (and was turned on and booted to "no operating system found".
Most of the stuff does still carry manufacturer's warranty, so you could go through them if it's defective.
@Sean Maher: The UCC is not what you're looking for. It's provisions generally trigger in the absence of other arrangements between parties. There are approximately eleventy billion examples of waiver of "all warranties express or implied."
@drdom: Yeah, I was gonna say, would a manufacturer even honor a purchase made at a liquidation sale if you needed to use the warranty? Why should the manufacturer have to pick up after the liquidator knowingly sold you a broken item? Regardless you would probably have a hassle trying to use your warranty if you needed to. Usually when you are trying to use your warranty coverage they ask you for all kinds of information like receipts and serial numbers, so you should make sure the serial number is still intact.
I think American Express may disagree with them on that.
Let's find out. American Express vs. Virgin: Round One. FIGHT!
@madanthony: CC was allowing exchanges if you inspected the merchandise at the testing station and had just bought the item a few min before at the register, but once you took it out of the store it was your problem if there was something wrong.
I think the issue here is they are trying to sell defective merchandise as non-defective (legal or not legal) and not allowing returns at all even if you find the problem with the item before leaving the store.
@JoshReflek: Which part of "all sales are final" is unclear? Is it the meaning of the word "all"? Allow the OED to clarify:
all a., n., and adv.
A. adj. I. with n.
...
2. With n. pl. The entire number of; the individual components of, without exception.
@Outrun1986: If it's defective, then the manufacturer should pick up the slack because they're obligated to honor their warranty. If it's broken (i.e., damaged), then you're SOL. As others have suggested, you should factor that possibility into how much you're willing to pay.
Personally, I'd open it up before buying. The worst they can do is throw me out, but that's better than getting stuck with a box of bathroom tiles in place of a hard drive. It's not like getting kicked out of a liquidation sale is the worst thing that can happen to me.
@Outrun1986: I think the issue here is they are trying to sell defective merchandise as non-defective
Where does anyone say that? They're trying to sell merchandise (presumably untested, so they probably don't care to check whether or not your disc has been shreeded) with the restriction that "all sales are final".
They're selling a pile of all the shit they can find that hasn't yet been sold. It's not like they're popping all the CDs into a CD player to test whether or not they're working before slapping a "$8.99" sticker on them.
@humphrmi: The only other option is to assume that every item at a going out of business sale is defective, and price based on that assumption. Which of course nobody does.
If the buyer chooses not to price accordingly, who's fault is that?
@JoshReflek: Respectfully, as a point of law, you are not correct. Frequently these liquidation sales are conducted under the order and supervision of a Federal Bankruptcy Court, often times in a different district and a different state than where the transaction occurs. Remember, you are no longer dealing with the original merchant. Instead, a private liquidation company is most often conducting the sale, whether it looks like it or not.
By making a purchase at a liquidation, where the terms are clearly posted and usually even stamped onto the receipt, the courts recognize a voluntary waiver of fitness or merchantability, with the exception of fraud.
Many municipal governments enact ordinances which require liquidation companies to obtain a permit, so as to try to gain some voluntary compliance to local laws designed to protect consumers.
However, if the liquidation is done subject to the supervision of the Federal Bankruptcy Court, that court can prescribe terms and conditions which govern the liquidation process. Most liquidators have done business with the Bankruptcy courts before, and operate subject to standard agreements they execute with the court which describe the terms under which they are permitted to operate. Believe it or not, it frequently will allow them to sell broken, damaged or otherwise unfit merchandise AS IS, WHERE IS. That's why it's called a liquidation. They're getting rid of everything, good or broken, functioning or not.
In other cases, liquidators purchase the entire inventory of a store or group of stores by bulk bid, and again, are free to sell merchandise AS IS.
If the consumer knowingly chooses to purchase something AS IS, they are waiving any rights they may otherwise enjoy under consumer protection laws. Fraud is the only recognized exception.
In one case I was able to look up and quickly browse, a 2007 case from Michigan, the court ruled that liquidation sales have the same functional status as an auction: all sales final, items sold as is, provided the terms are prominently posted.
When Circuit City was being liquidated, our local newspaper recounted the plight of several people who spent a significant sum, only to find out the product was damaged. Since it was sold as is, they had no recourse. One cannot prove whether the damage occurred before or after the buyer took possession of the item, and the terms of sale were clearly described in advance of the transaction. A representative of the Wisconsin Dept. of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection was prominently quoted saying the same thing. As is means what it implies.
@dmuth: Most liquidators don't take American Express. Even if they did, AMEX is the one out of pocket, not the liquidator. The liquidator complied with the terms of sale.
In the case of our local Circuit City liquidation, the bank would not do a VISA chargeback for people who bought a 52" LCD HDTV that was damaged, because the item was purchased AS IS, ALL SALES FINAL. The liquidator didn't know if it worked or not, and didn't want to know. It's the risk you take in exchange for what may or may not turn out to be a bargain.
@Rectilinear Propagation: You're exactly right.
That's the point of a liquidation sale... THE STORE IS CLOSING DOWN. Apparently, they are not going to be worried about a customer refusing to shop there again (or even calling corporate customer care for that matter) because it's a liquidation and chances are they won't be there very soon. duh!
Words to the wise, only buy certain things that are work the risk. I personally loved the Linens N Things liquidation (which clearly put it on signs and the receipt that "all sales are final") Bought towels, candles and small items at a discount that I can depend on. I passed on the $50 coffee maker.
A liquidation sale is basically a business version of an estate garage sale (or better yet the preforeclosure kind in this economy). Would you expect to try to return an item at a garage sale?
It's a liquidation sale. Obviously, you weren't shopping there enough for the business to survive in the first place.
@Aladdyn: And the funniest part about that NH law is that it doesn't protect vehicles. The NH lemon law provided absolutely no protection when my GF bought a car that wouldn't pass inspection and probably had a tampered odometer.
@humphrmi: I think the only way it is worth "no returns" is if the prices are marked down 80-90% off. In which case, the chance of getting a cheap deal vs. not being able to return it pays off. However, with the way liquidation prices have been more expensive than other retailers, I'd just as soon let them take all that merchandise with them-- to hell.
@StartingAces: Lemon laws vary from state to state but can be much weaker for a car that has already been titled.
I never did get the whole virgin megastore thing, and I have been to one. What irked me most was the way they left the front doors open, just letting the AC go right out the front door. So wasteful.
Willy Wonka quote FTW.