Help, StubHub Never Delivered My Tickets!
Vinay's StubHub tickets to see Lady Gaga never arrived in his inbox, but StubHub insists that they delivered the goods and refuses to issue a refund. StubHub's only communication with Vinay was a short confirmation email promising that the real tickets would arrive via SubHub's e-LMS system. The tickets still hadn't arrived the day of the concert, and armed with only a confirmation email in hand, Vinay was turned away from the venue.
I am writing you in hope of getting some advice on how to deal with an issue I had with a StubHub purchase I recently made. My end goal is to receive a refund.
On Friday, March 13th, I purchased three (3) GA tickets to Lady Gaga's Saturday, March 14th 10pm show at Mezzanine in San Francisco via Stub Hub since the show was sold out. I purchased these tickets at 2:36PM on the 13th and received a confirmation email saying that my order had been placed. This email contained an order number (#20475030). At 3:09 PM I received an email titled "Pick-up/Delivery Info #2075030). I didn't bother to open this email because when I purchased the tickets, the website stated the tickets would be delivered via e-LMS (StubHub's fancy name for PDF printable tickets). I made the wrong assumption that the tickets were attached to this email. So Friday passed and my mind was at ease. Saturday came around, and I was now ready to go to the show. I logged into my email account just after 8PM to print the tickets and read that another email will contain the attachments. I admit I should have logged in earlier and printed the tickets, but I figured StubHub is a reputable company, and I had received my order confirmation. I thought to myself ok fine, there must be another email with the e-LMS tickets. I go through my inbox and to my horror there are no more emails from StubHub after the 3:09 PM email. At this point I started freak out as I paid $534.70 for these tickets. I called StubHub through their customer line (866 STUBHUB) only to find that their customer service closes at 7PM PT on weekends. So now it's less than 2 hours before the show and I have no tickets in hand. I decided that the best thing to do is to head to the show with a receipt in hand and hope that I can get in. So I head to the show and send a quick email to customerservice@stubhub.com stating that I haven't received the tickets yet. Of course, without tickets in hand, I (and my two other friends) didn't get in and pretty much no recourse for the night. At this point, we decide to go out and I would call StubHub on Sunday when they are open.
So at 12:12PM I called StubHub customer service. I spoke with a young lady named Felcia and explain the situation. She asked me for my order number, my email address, and my billing zip code. She looked up the information and says that StubHub did in fact send me the tickets through e-LMS on Friday, March 13th. At which point I say I did not receive them or we wouldn't be having this conversation and I would like a refund. She then asked me if I had checked my spam filter. I responded, "Yes". She then proceeds to tell me that their nothing they can do since StubHub sent the tickets. And again I re-iterated that I did not receive them and StubHub should refund my money. She said they cannot do so. After a few minutes of this, I asked her if she can trace the email. She says, "No". At this point, I asked for a supervisor, hoping that maybe there is some recourse. Felica, at this point, tells me that I can't speak to a supervisor because there is nothing a supervisor can do to help. I ask again, stating that I'd still like to speak to one and again she refuses this time adding that no supervisors are available for these types of issues. At this point I was at my wits end, and I hung up.
I decided to immediately call again and hope that another agent may be more sympathetic to my issue. This time I spoke to a gentleman named Ben. I explained the situation, and he again looks up my information says that the tickets were delivered at 8PM on Friday, March 13th. I tell him that I did not receive the tickets, and at this point Ben and I have a discussion about the difference between the meanings of the words "sent", "delivered", and "received". I tell him that just because Stubhub sends something doesn't mean that they were delivered and/or received. He then says that they are marked delivered when StubHub knows that they have been received on the other end. I proceed to ask him on how StubHub would know that I received them if he couldn't check my inbox directly. He has no answer to this. Since I work in a related industry, I know tracking an email is possible with HTML email and a tracking pixel, StubHub's emails to me are plain text and do not contain a tracking pixel. Ben then says that he will contact their engineers and trace the e-LMS email, but he cannot refund my money at this point This strikes me as odd as Felicia told me they couldn't trace the email. I asked how long will this take and he says 2-3 hours and that is where I am at now.
I am now out $534.70 and with what seems very little recourse. I purchased the tickets through a visa debit card and hoping for some advice. I will forward the two order confirmation emails that I did receive from StubHub about this purchase as well.
Vinay later added:
I just wanted to update you, in case my email was posted on consumerist.com. I just received a call back form Ben at stubhub, and since their e-LMS system shows that the tickets were sent; they will not be able to refund my money. I asked him how he traced the email to guarantee they were delivered, and he still did not have an answer. I told him that I still did not receive the tickets and therefore they were not delivered, I and would still like StubHub to do the right thing and refund my money, at which point he said he felt that the matter was closed and that StubHub is doing the right thing. I asked him for a supervisor, which he tried to get, but none were available since their corporate office was closed. I then asked him for the corporate executive service number of email address. He refused my request. So at this point I am still out of $534.70 .I am hoping that some publicity to the matter will help StubHub do the right thing. I am also looking for any advice you might have on the matter.
Vinay isn't going to win a he-said she-said battle with StubHub unless he gets a powerful friend on his side. File a chargeback and make StubHub convince your credit card company that they delivered the tickets.
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Comments:
Umm...why did you wait until hours the show before to check to make sure you had the tickets? Seems a little irresponsible, especially for that amount of money. Kinda don't feel too bad for this guy.
But I have a love/hate relationship with Stubhub, their customer service is crap. Ordered tickets awhile back to be shipped to my work for a surprise, instead they changed the shipping address to my billing address..thus ruining the surprise. Tried calling them and got a voicemail box which said it was full! Finally figured out how to get a live person (push 0 always works!) So then I had to wait another 24 hrs to drive 40 min. to a Fedex hub to pick them up. Ridiculous seeing as how I paid $15 for overnight shipping and they f'd up...I wanted a partial refund since I had to go out of my way for their error. They never responded after repeated emails.
But, I used them again recently, no issues. Just don't make it overcomplicated for them and they're fine.
That sucks, call the bank that issued the Visa Debt card hopefully they can help you.
Might want to try small claims court as a last resort.
But, $500 for Lady Gaga? Really? (j/k)
hmm.. $178/ticket?!
Outrageously overpriced in my opinion.
On the other hand, I have never had any problem with StubHub for tickets to sporting events.
I wonder if the same people handle everything in all regions? They should, at the least, refund the OP money.
What kind of shoddy ticket delivery system uses EMAIL as the only method to deliver them? Email is not a perfectly reliable delivery system, for a number of reasons, especially not within 24 hours. Emails get filtered out at multiple places, delayed during relay, etc. Stubhub should really create a better system that allows people to download their tickets from the website, etc if they don't get the email. Stupid, stupid.
@johnva: @johnva: They don't - they can send a physical ticket which is the way I like to go, I'd hate to get to the venue and be stuck if for some reason my email printed ticket didn't work. However they charge $15 for mandatory overnight delivery, you can't even get regular mail if it's months in advance.
" * If the tickets of a confirmed order are not received before the event:
* If the event has not yet occurred, StubHub will attempt to locate the tickets and ensure their delivery (or attempted delivery) to the Buyer prior to the event. If the tickets cannot be located, StubHub will attempt to find comparable alternate tickets to fulfill the order. If comparable alternate tickets cannot be found or the time for the event has passed without any delivery attempt, StubHub will issue the Buyer a refund for the full cost of the tickets, including service fees and shipping and handling charges."
and
" Making a claim under the FanProtectTM Guarantee
If a problem should arise, the Buyer must follow these steps in order to receive a benefit under the FanProtectTM Guarantee. If the Buyer does not contact StubHub Customer Service within the required time periods outlined below, the benefits of this guarantee will not be applicable.
* If tickets of a confirmed order are not received before the event:
* The Buyer must contact StubHub Customer Service at customerservice@stubhub.com or 1.866.StubHub (1.866.788.2482) within 7 calendar days from the date the tickets were to arrive. The sooner the Buyer contacts StubHub, the greater the likelihood that StubHub will be able to assist the Buyer in fulfilling the order or, if necessary, locate replacement tickets."
I've had to deal with making a claim at StubHub -- it is a long and laborious process, however, in my case it was a situation where someone sold their tickets several times over.
I think in your case, you should phone StubHub back, talk to (yet another) representative and explain to them that you are going to make a Fan Protect Guarantee Claim. Be sure to ask for a written refusal to either a) make the claim, or b) the refusal of the claim. Remember to be as polite as possible when talking to the customer service people at StubHub. Usually the nicer you are, the more helpful they'll be :)
If ... er ... when they refuse your claim or refuse to make the claim, then contact your credit card company.
The _first_ thing that the credit card company will ask you is if you attempted to contact the seller of the tickets. You will have done this so :) at least you can answer that one positively.
My experience with chargebacks over tickets has been good. Unfortunately, I've had to do it twice. The first time I was a newbie, but the second time I was prepared for the paperwork involved.
What will happen next with the credit card company is that they will (usually) refund your money into your account immediately (be careful though.... if the credit card company rejects your claim, you'll still be on the hook for the charge!).
The credit card company will send you some paperwork which you *must* send back to the company. So here's where that written claim rejection comes in handy :) -- you can send that in as part of your claim.
Hope this diatribe helps ...
On top of filing a chargeback, I feel as though a nicely written email to your State Attorney General is in order, bcc'ed to StubHub of course. If my memory serves me correctly, StubHub is walking around on tippy toes and egg shells with AG's.
Or maybe I'm a little spoiled by living in NY and having an AG that wants to make a name for himself =)
People are overlooking a vital part of the story:
I purchased the tickets through a visa debit card...
In other words, no chargeback. It's like paying with cash; if you don't get what you paid for, and nobody responds, the only option is probably some sort of court, no?
@thetango: This sounds like the best advice; only thing I would add is to meticulously document everything. This is likely to stretch out over some time, and details can get foggy (though I'd imagine for 500$+ you're likely doing this already).
This story is a little disappointing, in that I've used StubHub on many occassions- including WS tickets picked up "day-of-game"- and never once had a problem. Hopefully once the business week commences on Monday you'll get viable escalation. Just continue to call and demand that they live up to their "Guarantee" as quoted above.
@supercereal:
Actually, it was probably used as a credit card, as in not a pin based transaction, and he can do a chargeback through his bank.
@supercereal: Visa and MC Debit cards have all of the same benifits of a regular VISA MC. As far as I understand it.
Maybe they'll change their mind once they see the OP's poker face.
@thnkwhatyouthnk: New York Attorney Generals are made of awesome. (And in the case of Eliot Spitzer, hookers.)
@supercereal: Uh, yes, they do. I don't know if the law specifically requires it, but 95% of the banks and credit unions in this country have some sort of fraud protection program. (Like Wells Fargo's Wellsprotect thing which they like to advertise when they send you a card.)
@DePaulBlueDemon: Looks like you're right after some snooping (who researches before they post on the internet, anyway?). It seems that it's only a Visa thing though, and that issuing banks don't have to offer that protection with MC's version of the debit card.
Still, for PIN based transactions, you're SOL.
Reading the FanProtect Guarantee it looks like this would be covered. I am very interested to hear the outcome of his claim made against this guarantee.
Since these are e-tickets with a unique bar-code serial number the venue should be able to confirm whether or not the tickets were actually used.
Also it seems like StubHub should add the ability to request an automated re-send of the tickets. Enter your order number on a screen and the e-LMS system sends them out to the email address on file for that order.
Isn't there a way they can see if the tickets were scanned in and/or used? If they weren't then they know he didn't go to the concert because he never got them.
Yet another reason why ticket scalping is evil. Companies like Stub Hub are going to destroy the concert business if Live Nation and Ticketmaster don't do it first.
Physical or electronic, always open and read any mail you get from a company you are expecting something from, and do it immediately upon receipt. The mail could have contained a message like "Hey, we @#$^%&'ed up, call us to sort out your order."
As for tracking pixels, that is a poor tracking method as anyone with an ounce of security awareness has HTML disabled, plus a good spam filter raises the spam score in the presence of HTML content, running the risk of the message not being seen. Checking the spam box only works if it was the end-point filter that trapped the message.
@nightsky: Again, only for non-PIN-based transactions. If it's PIN-based, it depends on how the transaction was processed by the merchant.
@johnva: I know. The OP's ISP may even have rejected it if they felt it was shoddy (a large attachment in a binary format?). Email should never be the sole method for delivery.
@johnva: She purchased the tickets the day before the concert. What other way could they deliver them? I've never used Stub Hub. Do they even mess with Will Call? I'm thinking probably not.
@Robby Andrews: You're probably right.
There are not that many online merchants that actually does PIN-free EFT processing (which is effectively the online equivalent of PIN Debit entry).
Vinay, as everyone else has mentioned: 1) Contact your bank and initiate a chargeback and 2) Contact the BBB and your state's AG and file a report with them. That'll keep them busy for a while.
Next time, seriously consider using a credit card for potentially risky purchases (e.g.: anything that you won't be able to have in your person immediately upon payment)
@supercereal: Man I did a chargeback with my Platinum Amex and LOST against StubHub!! Similar scenario, so enraging...I wound up being out $500. Stubhub fights these things pretty hard and will send AmEx/Visa a copy of the agreement you agree to when you register for an account. I didn't read the fine print and you basically sign away all of your rights. I think there is some kind of behind the scenes agreement between StubHub and Amex because I appealed and provided more evidence and still lost. AmEx is a sinking ship with a lot of bad debt and no longer defaultly judge for the consumer.
OP: Did you check your junk mail folder, btw?
Yep, I would have said "fine, I will just get my money back through my credit card company. you explain it to them. enjoy!" on my first call to SNub-hub.
@johnva: Email is definitely not the only method.
@tomok97: I've used StubHub twice for events in Chicago (one White Sox game, one Blackhawks). For the Sox game, they had the tickets at the stadium will call. For the Blackhawks game (purchased day-of-game), I had to pick them up at the StubHub office in the Loop...wasn't a huge hassle for me, just had to make sure I got over there before 6pm.
They have offices for pickup/dropoff in most major cities, so I'd imagine that if OP was in San Francisco he could have done so...not blaming him though, this is a shitty situation.
@johnva: How many times have you purchased something on the Internet and had to enter your PIN?
Zero for me.
That much money to see Lady Gaga? Really? She should be paying her fans to see her.
@tomok97:
A username-based system, with access to printouts of the tickets there, would work just fine.
This is why I'm afraid to go to concerts. :/
Not only should Stub shlub be made to refund her, but also be responsible for compensation based on the fact that
1. She now has to cancel her debit card
2. She is inconvenienced for having her money held in limbo while waiting for replacement debit card to arrive
3. And for the express shipping fees that some banks charge to expedite the delivery of the aforementioned replacement debit card, if she chooses to have it sooner rather than later.
@supercereal: Debit cards do have chargeback. The problem is, unlike a credit card where you don't have to pay the charge while it's in process, with a debit card you have already paid it and won't get your money back until the chargeback process is complete.
@thnkwhatyouthnk: why BCC? I don't see what the problem would be with letting both parties know they're in on the same mail trail.
Stubhub's emails says QUITE FREAKING CLEARLY there are three (THREE) emails when you use the e-delivery system.
First email: You've placed the order.
Second email: Order is confirmed and you're protected.
Third email: Link to Tickets.
That is the LEAD PARAGRAPH of e-delivery tickets I've got from stubhub.
OP's own problem that he ordered late, didn't check, and simply took the confirm letter with him.
Yes, I am blaming the OP. Every time I've used Stubhub, it's been flawless. If he didn't get the email with the tickets, he should have been checking earlier.
@supercereal: Visa Debit, when used online, acts exactly like a credit card. The card automatically runs as credit unless you select to use it as a debit card. Since online purchases do not have the option for debit, it runs as credit. I've done chargebacks from credit purchases on mine before.
@johnva: No, as I wrote there are ways to obtain the tickets in a non-electronic format (will call or pickup), as late as the day of the event.
I realize that it might be a little inconvenient, was just pointing out that it's not like StubHub is forcing anyone to choose the email option.
That's what you deserve for listening to Lady GArbaGA
@thnkwhatyouthnk: Pundits say the reason Andrew Cuomo is trying to make a name for himself is, he's planning a possible run for governor in 2010.
Yes, sounds like it's time for a chargeback. Let StubHub answer to Visa/MC/AMEX, et. al.