Folks, I hate to say it, but these days, you can't risk it. You simply have to open the item in front of the cashier to make sure you're getting what you paid for.

OR, what retailers could do is open the product up in front of the customer, then have them seal it with their sticker. That way if the customer returns it, and customer service opens it, it's still considered "unopened".

it's true when returning stuff to Wal Mart it isn't throughly inspected and even then likely green lighted

we got a broken floodlight upon returning it the lady opened the box say the crack running across the top, ran her finger across it, and put it in the back and gave us our money back. we never told her that it came like that just that we wanted to return it and she never asked

Indeed opening the box there in the store is what Andy Barlow suggested in the other thread, and I will do this for big ticket items from now on. I think many of us are 'conditioned' to think that perhaps opening up a box may be considered 'rude' because it implies you don't trust the saleperson/store. Kind of like opening the bag of a fast food order to make sure everything is there. But hey, it's our money.

This shows what we all suspected.

The companies like Wal-Mart, BestBuy, Target, et cetera, could resolve these problems if they wanted to by working with their security personnel.

@Zclyh3:
really?, I figured if you tried to walk out of Wal Mart with a brand new and opened iPod you'd run into some problems

@twophrasebark: "...could resolve these problems if they wanted to by working with their security personnel. "

which begs the question, is the security at these stores in place to protect the customer... or just to protect the store and its employees? From past consumerist readings, I would have to say #2.

I am surprised by this Wal-Marts actions. The Wal-Mart near me has one of the best return policies. I figure they know that a good return policy will keep costumers loyal. These rocks in boxes stories leave upset. It seems like a game of hot potato where the loser gets stuck with a thousand dollar rock.

@AppleAlex:
Not that I condone or participate in such activity, but I doubt it would take much to sneak something past their geriatric greeter/security guard.

@Zclyh3: GameStop will do this with their used or shelf copies if you ask, so they're returnable for full price.

@TheObserver: It also makes it impossible to return many items once they are opened...

This absolutely needs to be the responsibility of the retailer, and never the manufacturer. The faux product could be boxed up anywhere along the supply chain or even by the consumer trying to pull their own scam.

Going back to the manufacturer basically doesn't work. The "deal" was not between the consumer and manufacturer ... if the consumer never received the manufacturer's product. Further, the consumer has no control over any of the security steps in the supply chain. The retailer certainly does have control over it from the point where they get product from the manufacturer.

So it needs to be the retailer who starts the process to sort it out. They need to determine whether they are being scammed by a bad consumer, or their own employees/contractors in their own part of the supply chain, or the manufacturers they take delivery of the products from.

In the end, I bet this will result in more products being boxed in clear packaging that make it obvious there is a real and complete product inside, with all components. Smaller products would be in a full blister pack. Larger products would have a window area showing a part of the product, along with all the accessory components (or they could be packaged separately in the blister pack).

Consumers need to force the retailers to do this. The way to do this is NOT to force specific methods, per se, but to apply responsibility. Big retailers like Walmart and Best Buy do have relationships with the product supplies, and they have many times made requirements of them. So in this case, the retailers will require the manufacturers/supplies to supply product in "secure anti-substitution packaging" in order for the retailers to not be in a loss position under their responsibility to consumers.

Once secure packaging is done, then the cases where consumers do the substitution will also be stopped, since it will be too hard for consumers to claim they didn't see that brick inside the package.

We need to get the fact that these scams are happening more widely distributed, and inform consumers to absolutely OPEN PACKAGES IN THE STORE unless they in secure (see through) packages. The more that consumers push this issue, the more that retailers will back push it up the supply chain (what we need to force them to do).

And we need laws that specifically make retailers responsible within the first N days where N is the greater of: [1] 15 days or [2] whatever is appropriate for certain products (there are very few of these) that would ordinarily need to be left packaged for a while. Additionally, if the consumer is having the retailer (arrange to) do the installation, the 15 days begins only when the installation is complete.

There will be losses and costs involved in this, and you can bet retailers will be spouting that line to oppose any such laws. But it is better that these costs be spread out evenly through a party that has control over the process, instead of hitting a few innocent victims who end up having to take the full loss on something they have no control over.

@SnowingCookies: Security in stores is to protect the store and its employees. Why would you think otherwise? Thats like asking if the alarm you put on your howse is to protect your family or neighbors...of course its for you.

@xtc46: how the hell did I spell house wrong? wtf..

As for opening boxes, auto parts do it pretty much every time you get a part that they have to pull from the back. At least every time I've bought a part from a number of chain parts stores they have.

@xtc46: not sure how you managed to spell it wrong, but i knew what you meant, never the less.

My point was that some people actually think that security is in place to protect the shoppers/customers - when in fact, mostly they are there as you say (and I agree), to protect the store and its employees... just as "mall-cops" are basically annoying and dont really do anything to enhance the "shopping experience".

But just like their law-enforcement officer counterparts, they sometimes need to "do good for the people" in order to justify their existence. (protect & serve the people, sometimes)

When i was a manager for KB Toys-- back in the good old days, before the first bankruptcy when they still sold game systems-- we used to physically open up the box of each system as we sold it and copy the serial number from the system to the flap on the box. Part of that process involved showing the customer that everything was in the box and (because half the time people had no clue what they were buying) what everything was. No surprises. Only one controller (need another one?). Uses RCA cables to connect to the tv (need a RF adapter?). You wanted to bring that system back, you had to bring it back with ALL the packaging, in the ORIGINAL box, and the serial number we wrote on the box had to match the system. Yes, you were invited to make sure we wrote it down correctly. It really wasn't that hard.

@Stanwell: IIRC, both the Xbox 360 and PS3 (And I think the PS2 as well) have a hole in the box that allows you to see the serial of the console, and they also have the serial on the box, so you can check to see if it matches before you purchase, and if they don't, you can call shens and grab an un-molested one off of the shelf.

@Stanwell:
Something like you described would have gone a long way to making stores like Best Buy or Circuit City stand out.

I bet Circuit City would be the number 1 electronics retailer if they had done this

@TheObserver: Agree. It's only fair, after all they open our bags when we walk out.

They (Nintendo, Microsoft, etc...) should put security seal on the box at all location that can be opened. So that if the seal is broken, then the buyer will see that the box was opened before and it could be rocks, or a phone book.

@ShirtNinja: I think the serial-number-on-the-box thing began with PS2. We opened the box and wrote the number on the flap anyway. At Giftmas we wrote the numbers in advance to save time, but still invited the customer to compare, and still went through the motions of showing the contents. But yeah, i think most of 'em you can see the system through the handy hole in the box now.

@AppleAlex: The WalMart in my area generally has one person working the customer service counter, regardless of the number of people in line. I can see why returned merchandise never gets looked at.

All the more reason for me to shop at WalMart as little as possible.

@Zclyh3:

Really??? Because I could have sworn people complaining on here about getting stuff from Best Buy and other places that they sell as new but the box is open..

You cannot have both ways..

@SnowingCookies: The police paid with our tax money are here to protect us, private security is there to protect the assests of who ever is paying them.

In reality, mall cops, and store security mostly deter theft, not stop theft that is taking place, like human security cameras. Its the polices job to stop a crime in progress, not a security guards.

@Zclyh3: when I worked @ KB Toys back in the dark ages, we had to open up the box and initial the inside of the box in front of the consumer. I don't quite remember the return policy but I think as long as the components weren't opened, it could be returned. Once the components were open, it could only be exchanged for the same product. Then corporate told us to stop....

I can't believe what a cry baby this woman is. She should count her blessing with these rocks. Some people don't even have that and would saw off a finger for half a dozen, or so really nice rocks like that.

@Kevin Carlyle: I'm not so sure about that. Game systems were the only big ticket items KB sold, really, and even at Giftmas you're probably talking about maybe a couple of dozen transactions a day, tops. Can you imagine the lines at Circuit City or Best Buy if every computer, GPS, stereo, TV, video card, or what have you had to be opened and noted like that?

@GoodBytes: If i'm not mistaken, they do. Looks like white- or whatever color- tape when it's unopened, but peeling the tape off leaves behind the Nintendo name and you can tell the tape's been tampered with. The problem is if someone just replaces the tape entirely, or the people taking the returns and making the sales aren't familiar with this...

@sponica: yeah, it wasn't that way when i worked there through the late 90's. that's what you get for doing something that makes sense.....

It is certainly within the job parameters of store security to respond to a situation such as the OP encountered. That it required a TV station is disconcerting...

@catastrophegirl: Ok, if you go to a store to buy a product and the clerk or you opens the SEALED PACKAGE to confirm the product inside is exactly what it's supposed to be, then it's still new, since you've been with the item the entire time it's been unpackaged.

Gamestop takes its games out with no customers around, so you can't always guarantee you are actually getting a "new" item.

"Footage showed another customer returning the rocks, which had been disguised as the gaming system."

So a box of rocks was so cleverly disguised as a gaming system that the employee didn't notice but it was clear on the video? :)

Seriously, though, I wonder how they were able to tell, via the video, that the customer was returning rocks .

These stories are beginning to bother me. If you legitimately find a problem like this, go to Wal-Mart and work it out, but to report it to the local news makes you look like a thief. Even if she didn't swap it out, which I believe she did, Wal-Mart gave her her money back AND an extra $20. Say "thank you" and walk away.

@Stanwell: That's why we need to get EVERY consumer to start opening the boxes right at the checkout counter. Yes, it will be a huge backlog at the checkout. What the retailers need to do to prevent these problems is something somewhere between providing guarantees that the real product is in the box (which makes them easily vulnerable to scammers posing as consumers) and pressing manufacturers to package products with enough see-through capability to verify that the real product and all accessories are in there.

Can you just imagine the slowdown it would cause if Walmart employees opened up the boxes for returned products to be sure that the real items were being returned as well as all the accessories?

Oh wait...

@Scott Davis: Walmart gave her her money back only *after* the TV station got involved.

RTFA:

"Wal-Mart told Wylke to take her problem to Nintendo, but Nintendo claimed it was Wal-Mart's responsibility.

After going back and forth, a Tampa TV station got involved and Wal-Mart went through its security tape. Footage showed another customer returning the rocks, which had been disguised as the gaming system.

Wal-Mart gave Wylke a full refund for her trouble as well as a $20 gift card."

Maybe I'm not getting it but it sounds like these stores are accepting returns WITHOUT actually looking in the box themselves? Can that be right?

Whats the lesson here: If you get a box of rocks, just return saying the item didn't work and get a replacement?

So how is it that the store security footage showed a customer returning a box of rocks, and the employee processing the return failing to notice that when they opened the box to make sure the serial number on the DS matched and that all accessories were included? Sounds like an employee was part of the theft. This needs to be treated by Walmart as a CRIME on the part of their (now former) employee (as well as the customer, if they can track them down). Ms. Wylke also needs to be invited to watch the trial, if not even testify as to what happened. Walmart can make good on this one incident by following through like that.

But in general, we need see-through security packaging.

@GoodBytes: This is true to an extent, Sony and Microsoft include it on all of their products. Nintendo DS and DSi have it, but the Nintendo Wii package is NOT sealed at all. Whenever you are buying a video game system, check the stickers, they're not fool proof, but most thieves aren't smart enough to make them look factory sealed. another bit of advice is to check the bottom of the box if you're buying a PS3, it is GLUED shut (not just overlapped)

and lastly, Sony and Nintendo now print the serial number on the box as well as on the system (as opposed to it being visible through a hole in the box) which is also helpful.

@hahamaximus: That's who we have at the exit of my local Walmart. His job seems to be to just stand there. Same with the greeter, actually. The last one at least used to offer a sticker or say hi. Maybe these jobs don't pay too well?

@TheObserver: I dunno, checking your order at a fast food place is pretty standard practice. Not that I don't trust them to give me my food, but people make mistakes.

@twophrasebark: While I agree with this, at my Walmart our security people were the ones doing the stealing.

I went to Walmart and bought a discounted PS3 game in new wrapping. I then went to the cashier and paid for it. I stood their and opened it. The discounted game did not have the security stickers that most DVD's and games do. There wasn't a disk inside. I pointed this out to the cashier. The cashier was puzzled why I was taking up time holding up the line opening my game. So, when the cashier seen that their was no disk. I got a reaction of disbelief. She told me that she could not give my money back and had to go to customer service. I went and stood in the customer service line for five mins. I told the CSR what happened and she looked at me like I was lying. I told her that I never left the store and opened the package in front of the cashier. I even had the packaging wrap in my hand. I told her that all I wanted was an exchange and not a refund. She called the electronic department and they even had a look like I was making this stuff up. Not once did they asked the cashier if I opened the game in front of her. The electronic department went to the back and could not find a replacement. In the mean time, the CSR actually looked at my reciept and must have found something on there to convince her. The CSR then told me she believed me and gave me a refund. Total ordeal took 20 minutes and a bad feeling about buying console games at Walmart.

@ShirtNinja: Xbox, Xbox 360, PS1, PS2, PS3, Gamecube, Dreamcast, Gameboy Advance all had holes for scanning the units. I don't remember about the Wii and I'm pretty sure the DS doesn't.

The Wal-Mart I worked at required that electronics personnel come inspect returned systems and to deny them if they were missing a piece, the Serial Number didn't match the one on the receipt, or if the computer showed that it was sold outside the ninety day return period.

@Skaperen: Losses and costs are passed on to the consumer. Otherwise, in the long run they wouldn't survive.

@satindevil: Same over here. I tend to avoid WalMart as much as I possibly can. Anyway, I've also heard that WalMart allows you to return pretty much anything -- my old manager at Payless said they allowed her to return an opened bag of peanuts. Why she was trying to return an opened bag of peanuts is beyong me, though...

@AlxFherMana: beyond*

We need an edit button.

@Skaperen: The only problem I see with being able to return within 15 days is with long term shopping for things like Christmas or birthdays. Most people I know tend to do most of their Christmas shopping before December 10th to avoid the hassle of crowds.
I guess at that point it would be the responsibility of the consumer to ensure they are receiving the correct product, something that you seem to be arguing against.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I think what you're advocating is a step in the right direction, it just wouldn't solve all problems and consumers should still be good [wary] shoppers.

@xtc46:

If there is no outward indication that your home is alarmed (therefore nothing driving burglars to the neighbor's house instead of yours) it IS protecting your neighbors.