I love the idea that bad customer support is put into writing :D

I had this happen to me also a year ago. I couldnt believe it, I also took screenshots as I couldnt believe after buying the software to protect my computer, they had a fix for the problem, but the software couldnt fix it, but a tech that was connected remotely to my computer could... For a fee. Mine was about 80$, and it took nearly 4 hours for them to do it with all the restarts and being disconnected multiple times.

"I suggest to you to remove the infection immediately."

Well, with expert advice like that, I could see why they would charge you.

This really sucks since a lot of non-tech people use Norton and would just a quickly pay $100 to keep a virus from eating the pictures of their grandchildren.

Still it seems like there aren't any antivirus applications out that are worth using (that aren't free).

Too bad most novice users don't know this.

I dropped Norton after it became apparent their focus was on bloatware.

This is why you should learn how to write your own anti-virus software, using only locally grown, all natural, hfcs free materials. Blah blah ****sound of mosquitos buzzing****

The Symantec products aren't that bad, but they should offer better support than that. As a tech, I've seen too many times where you have a PC that you can't install AV to because its too far gone. The product works just fine on a PC out of the box or without major infestations. Is that the Symantec's fault? I hardly think so.....

I hate norton antivirus, It has bad detection rates and is even worse at removing infections. the only reason our local computer store stocks it is because my boss "likes" it, even though its running inactive on his computer which already has a few viruses, which he doesn't seem to mind. I feel like I got punched in the stomach when I have to suggest norton antivirus because thats all we carry :(

He was probably unable to install it due to already being infected. I know the TDSS trojan will not allow you to install protection software. Unfortunately people too often view protection software as a fix after the infection when you need to be protected to PREVENT the infection. Its like putting a condom on after having sex and complaining that you got an STD. Most of the time you need multiple scanners and manual removals for most malware if you were infected prior to buying anti-malware software. It seems to me that Symantec wanted payment to clean his system so that Norton 360 could be installed. The problem wasnt with defective software it was most likely with his PC. However, I think it is quite a high price for Norton to charge when you are already buying their software with potentially years of renewals

Sweet lord trying to read anything on pcmag.com sucks. Those screen caps were a 'slideshow' that's really just an excuse to reload the page over and over again and deliver ad impressions, and the inline-advertisements in the article - for Norton's utilities, natch - IMMEDIATELY open and start playing audio/video if your mouse even nicks any one of them. Ugh ugh ugh.

I second that opinion. The PCmag website is pure trash.

Ah the joys of 64bit OS.

Norton Free. Norton Free.

Actually Antivirus Softfree Free.

@wolftrouble & Broadcaster: I'm sorry to hear that. PC Mag is one of those sites where I have AdBlockerPlus turned up to 11. I don't remember why now but I must have had a similar experience in the past with obnoxious advertising from them.

Virus = Causes your pc to slow to a crawl
Virus protection = Causes your pc to slow to a crawl

I cannot believe people still buy this crap.

If you've waited until your computer is infected to install antivirus software, you have made the mistake. Antivirus software removes the virus before it "establishes" itself. Viruses frequently bring in other viruses, and some have bots that completely block the ability to install A/V software all together.

I certainly think Symantec could have done a better job in communicating with the customer, their sarcasm did not work to their advantage. But the additional charges were labor charges, and when you pay for Norton products, you are not paying for manual labor, you are paying for automated protection.

Also - those complaining that Norton is bloatware. Yes, I agree. However, I installed Norton when I was in a pinch - my antivirus had expired more than a month ago, and I was between paychecks. I read that Norton had improved their speeds, and it was definitely true. It installed in less than a minute and used less system resources than any A/V software I have ever used. The 2009 version is the best I have ever used. I hope they continue using this model in 2010.

Well, I use Comodo. It's free, and it works rather well. No bloatware to speak of, and it's very efficient. You might want to give them a spin: [www.comodo.com]

Now, they do charge for the higher end stuff, but that's intended for larger businesses and enterprise level stuff. Also, download the Verification Engine software (anti-phishing tool). It'll change the way you surf.

@Nick Highland & Gorphlog: read the PC Mag article--he's not bashing AV software.

It turns out the problem in the first chat could have been resolved easily, and there were other users on Symantec's new user forum who were able to provide the info needed (in this case, boot from the CD or download an ISO, then burn to CD and boot from that).

In the past, Symantec could have provided that info. In the case written about above, the CSR didn't provide info, just tried to upsell immediately.

I'm not fan of Norton apps but this guy's article is about the sudden and noticeable decline in their chat service, not in the quality of the AV app itself.

These were test PCs deliberately infected in order to test the software, btw, so the standard "dumb user" arguments don't really apply.

Anti-virus software is bloatware if your computer is a piece of crap, but a utility if it has a reasonable level of performance. Unfortunately most irresponsible and uneducated computer users that need the protection the most also have aged entry level PCs that have never been properly maintained.

Quatre707: "Anti-virus software is bloatware if your computer is a piece of crap..."

Couldn't be further from the truth:

Bloatware = Software that is overpacked with features (a result of feature creep) and therefore slow or unwieldy; software that occupies an excessive amount of memory or has a very large file size.

I want to chime in here and recommend NOD32 from Eset. I've been using it for 2 years and I have yet to have an infection, but boy have I had some hits! Every time it's cleaned it and it even has a fuction to send info to Eset to review it. Also, I don't even notice the automatic scanning, it takes up very little CPU time. Freakin' awesome, and exactly what antivirus should be - a program you don't even notice running except for the little icon, and that does it's damn job when it's supposed to.

And no, I do not work for Eset, but if they want to pay me $5.00 for writing this I won't turn it down. Hell, just buy me a sammich and we'll call it even.

I do virus & Trojan removals (several per week) by booting to a Windows PE CD, manually deleting the malware files, and loading the Registry hives into PE's editor. When there's a rootkit like TDSS or UAC, that's the easiest way to find and delete the files & keys.
When I'm done, I clean off the commercial anti-virus product that failed to protect the computer and replace it with AVG Free. It's not perfect either, but it's at least as good.

Besides, it seems like half of Norton's (and McAfee's) code is devoted to getting paid for the renewal...

I thought Norton 360 meant they blind-folded their customers, spun them around, then smacked them on the ass and sent them on their way...

Sadly, my company uses them at a corporate level - and all our machines suffer for it. Thank goodness I'm not paying for it.

I've been using the Norton 360 3.0 public beta for a while on Windows 7 and it's a pretty good performer. This tumble in thec support gives me pause though. On my Vista machine I use Avira. That's a good choice too.

@wolftrouble: And that, friends, is the only option for former loyal paying subscribers. The magazine ceased print publication early this year and converted everybody over to online reading only.

Another annoying thing they used to do with their print subscriptions was to keep putting you back on their "continuous renewal" plan even after you opted out. I was getting sick of twenty full pages of ads in the middle of every issue for GoDaddy and their ilk, and screaming headlines on the cover page for articles that didn't even exist inside. I cancelled my sub and a gift sub I had been sending to a friend.

[tinyurl.com]

Someone had to say it.

@4ster: or Ubuntu for the matter.

@KarbonKopy: Not that bad? Norton antivirus slows down my computer (the one I had two years ago)significantly. Whenever my non-techy friends ask me about computers the first thing i do is tell them to get rid of Norton.

@Corporate-Shill:

.... why would you think a 64bit OS would protect you for anything malicious at all?

I've had similar bad experiences with various AV software. Fortunately, I discovered that an old friend I worked with at an Amiga software company back in the day and trusted has formed Sunbelt Software ( www.sunbeltsoftware.com ) providing excellent antivirus and antispyware sofware at a very resonable price. They also maintain the Sunbelt Blog ( sunbeltblog.blogspot.com ) which reveals new scamware and the like as they uncover it.

I have absolutely no involvement with the company besides being a very satisfied user and being able to vouch for the good intentions of the management and the performance of their software. Give it a shot, you'll be glad you did.

you need multiple 'trawls' with different apps.

I use lavasoft adaware, spybot, and malware to sniff for the spyware - and avast, avg, and the occasional nod32 for antivirus.

Norton is bloatware, and there's too many whispers of NSA backdoors built into it, to allow it to have free unfettered access to the net - or your pc.

Rule of thumb #1. Don't rely on just 'one' product to ensure your pc is clean. And don't believe any vendor who says their product is all you need.

Especially not large companies who have a vested interest in there being constant infections 'in the wild', which require that users have to use their product.

I agree with the "Norton is bloatware / intrusive / annoying / ineffective" comments.

There are some great free utilities out there (check download.com as a trusted source), but my experience has been that most "regular" people don't use them properly (certainly they don't want to deal with multiple apps and manual steps).

I'm always tempted to tell them to "just get a Mac", but that's not exactly helpful. So, instead, I've been trying to find the path of least resistance to keeping them running well. Microsoft Windows Live One Care has been giving good results, plus it just sits there and does it's job quietly. At this point, I'd recommend it.

When faced with a charge for support, it sometimes helps to point out that the charge for support is more than the price of the competition

All I have to say is that if there was a rootkit(s) on your system, it's not safe to trust it anymore regardless of what antivirus software says. You really should erase the drive and reinstall windows.

@Chris Walters: Well said.

Why would a guy who writes for PC Magazine even use Norton to be begin with? There are free av/malware/firewall program that are independently rated higher than Norton.

Has he never heard of Avira, Avast, AVG, Comodo, Tall Emu, Lavasoft and Spybot S&D?

Even if he wanted to pay for a security suite there are much better paid options available.

@Ouze: Isn't it obvious that a 32 bit program couldn't possibly run on a 64 bit system? The numbers aren't the same! You need to get 64 bit internet as well, and a 64 bit mouse, and a 64 bit keyboard... :|

Don't worry, we're taking these magical 64 bit systems very seriously.

Outsourced CSRs don't give a shit about the business they represent. They're paid crappy money (even for the region they are in), can usually only read from a prepared script and rarely use any initiative to resolve a problem. We outsourced our own tech support and it just stinks now. The number of end users we've lost because of it probably will be never know.

Oh, and AVG a great solution but it's a process hog. It runs a lot in the background so if you're limited on resources it might not be your first choice even though it's free

I honestly don't see a huge issue here.

Working in the IT field, I know and try and educate everyone that after you get a new computer, format your computer, etc.. the first thing you need to install is antivirus.

Antivirus is first designed to be a PROPHYLACTIC. It does it's best to PREVENT infection. It's just like your body: If something doesn't feel right you go to the doctor before it gets worse. You go later on, you pay the price.

Not that I'm a huge fan of Norton 360. I recommend against it all the time when I'm asked about AV software for home or small business. However I do believe it to be unreasonable to have a severe infection on your computer, expect to go buy an off-the-shelf product to clean it up and when it fails you blame the company for wanting more money to cure a problem more serious than the software was originally intended to prevent against or cure.

If you go to your family doctor and they can't fix your issue, do you expect for the specialst to fix it for the fee you paid your family doctor?

@woot: Yeah except that Windows Live One Care is discontinued as of about August of this year. They did have the gall to ask me for a full year's coverage when I went online to see about renewal last month.

For the more expert user, One Care can drive you crazy with all kinds of warning flags that for the most part are inconsequential to an antivirus protection effort. I get sick of opening up the program to see what the program's latest beef with my setup is this time.

@radiochief: Sigh. RTFA. It says he was testing the software:

But my new experiences while evaluating Norton 360 version 3.0 opened my eyes to the magnitude of the problem.

You would expect that occasionally writers and editors for computer magazines need to stoop down low and actually install and test the products they are paid to write about.

Not a lot of people are aware that Symantec has outsourced nearly all of its support to India. They constantly post information that they are hiring but they do that only to maintain tax breaks from the city of Eugene. In truth, they do no hiring, even through the temp agencies they once used, but instead all customer service, level 1 tech support and some level 2 is outsourced through India. Network support is also outsourced but that is done primarily through American companies, as long as their technicians have paid for Symantec training and qualification testing.

@Joe Lachiana: Seconded.

Permanently abandoned Norton when Symantec stopped supporting the version I owned two months ahead of the end of my subscription. Changed to AVG Free and never looked back.

I'm seeing alot of chat here of people who haven't used Norton 2009 products.

There is no bloatware, only the essentials. It takes 5 megabytes of ram unlike mcafee and trend micro that take over 100 megabytes.

Also this service where they manually come in and remove your infection has been there since day one, you cannot expect something automated to be perfect or have the intelligence to fight against something that was also made by a human, a technical support agent is more adaptable than the antivirus is and for rare cases is necessary. These necessary cases are why technical support is there.

Please acknoledge that nothing and nobody is perfect, then you'll understand why this service was offered. Thank you.

@Megladon: It took an experienced tech 4 hours to repair your computer, and you are complaining that they charged you $80? That's $20/hr, quite a reasonable rate considering the amount of skill required to fix a problem like that, in my opinion.

If you are trying to remove malware that got on your computer after you had Norton installed, then that's one thing, but from the sounds of it, they are trying to remove malware that was on the system before Norton was installed, and I don't think it is designed to handle that -- not included in the purchase cost at least. How can they? Malware can just look for the Norton installer and kill it, keeping you from installing, and if Norton isn't installed, how can it remove the malware to let you install it?

I just help fix a person's computer that got bit by this. It was showing signs of virusses, spyware, etc, so she bought Norton 360, installed it, but couldn't figure out what to do next, so she called support. She went around and around, and finally ended up on the phone with someone in a call center in Calcutta that spent 3 hours remotely connected to her machine VNC-style that did precisely squat to help her. Lightened her wallet by a couple hundred, though.

I got ahold of it, and did the usual dance (AdAware, HijackThis, Spybot S&D). Ran the Norton 360 program, and it functioned fine, too. Can't imagine what that support guy was doing...

people still use norton? amazing

This is why I don't bother with Norton or any of those anti-virus suites. All they did was clog up my computer. And in this day and age, you can get better programs for free.

@DoubleEcho: Another recommendation for Nod32, i use it personally and got my work to switch last year, best move ever, its cheap uses very little resources and works better than symantec ever did.