Sorry, Your XBOX 360 Isn't The Right Kind Of Broken
By now, most people know about the dreaded Red Ring of Death issue on the XBOX 360 — and the accompanying 3 year warranty. What many do not know is that that 3 year warranty only covers the "3 red lights" issue. If you get any other error code, you're out of luck.
Reader Matthew just found out about this the hard way:
I bought my Xbox 360 Pro at the end of January 2008 and I've had a flawless experience with it until Saturday afternoon. I turn the system on and see an error screen that says "System Error. Contact Xbox Customer Support" Also, an error code of "E74" appears in a larger font at the bottom of the screen. I quickly glance over to the Xbox itself and see flashing red coming from it. Now, at this point I'm thinking my time has come for the Red Ring of Death (or 3 flashing red lights error). I wasn't even angry, thinking that this is just a rite of passage for anyone that owns this system and I just have to deal with it. Though my normal one year warranty ran out on 1/23/09, I figured I'd still be in the clear with the extended warranty for flashing red light errors.
Guess again.
My next step was to get on Xbox.com to set up a repair on there. When I get to the drop down box where you specify the problem, I'm surprised to see 1 flashing red light, 2 flashing red lights, and 4 flashing red lights in addition to the 3. Just to be sure, I turned my Xbox back on to make sure it was 3 red lights — only 1 red light flashed in the lower right. I did a few more tests and the result was always the same. So, I returned to Xbox.com to select "1 flashing red light" but I see that costs $99 to fix! I looked the other flashing light selections and only "3 red flashing lights" came up at $0. At this point, I'm stunned and fairly angry. My system has failed, but because I have one light instead of three I have to pay half the cost of a new system to get it repaired. What gives?
As much as the RROD gets reported, I never once heard of other flashing red light errors besides the RROD. I Googled "xbox 360 E74" and quite a few hits come back. Turns out it's a well documented issue among users — one that Microsoft does not want to include in the extended warranty since it's not 3 red lights. From what I gathered, this problem seems to be on the increase with newer consoles like mine. Since attempting to set up a repair online to my satisfaction failed, I decided to call Xbox Customer Support. I knew this would get me nowhere, but I wanted to exhaust all the "standard" ways to get my problem resolved.
I spoke to a younger male who I think was named "Ed" (The thick Indian accent made him difficult to understand.) and I explained to him my problem. We first went through the game of making sure the connections were good, etc. I asked Ed what is causing the 1 flashing red light and and the E74 error code and the response was "hardware failure or some other problem." I then ask what causes the 3 flashing lights and the response there was "general hardware failure." I then inquire what the exact differences are and why isn't the 1 flashing light covered by the extended warranty. Ed, unfortunately, could not give me a straight answer and just trailed off. I immediately ask for a supervisor, but Ed claimed there was no one else for me to speak to, but that technical support might have the answers. For some reason, Ed could not put me through to them either. Ed then brings up getting the console repaired. If I chose to set up the repair over the phone it would be $120 (plus shipping). He also points out that if I did it online, I would get the discounted price of $99. I declined both of these offers said "Thank you" and ended the call.
I have spent a good deal of money on games, peripherals, and an Xbox Live subscription. I took good care of my system, but in the end, it did not matter. As far as I'm concerned (and I suppose its a matter of opinion) both 3 flashing lights and 1 flashing light are the same thing — Hardware failures. In both cases the console does not function properly and must be sent off for repair. Of course, Microsoft is only going to see it their way. That's how they've always operated and it isn't going to change anytime soon. The last thing I want to do is argue semantics over the phone with a CSR in India. I'm aware of do-it-yourself guides to fix the problem myself, but I don't want to go down that road quite yet. It will be interesting to see if a new wave of failures emerge.
So, the moral of the story: 3 red lights means life after death. 1 red light means eternal darkness and damnation.
We haven't heard of anyone convincing Microsoft that the "1 red light" error should be covered under the extended warranty — but we suppose if it starts happening with the frequency that the "3 red light" errors occur, they'll have to start covering it.
In the meantime, if you bought the XBOX with a credit card, check to see if your card offers extended warranty protection. Some cars automatically double the warranty — so you may be covered without even knowing it.
(Photo:julian-'s )
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Comments:
I had the same thing happen to me a year ago. I got that error code and they told me it was due to hardware failure but it wasn't the same as the three red rings so I would be forking over 100 for fixing it. It was my launch 360 and it sucked.
Be prepared to replace your hard drive if you do send it in for repair. I had the same error (still under the 1 year warranty) and waited a month to get my xbox back, only to find out the hard drive was broken and I had another month till I could play.
As much as I can sympathize with the dude's frustration, what MS is doing isn't unreasonable. The RROD extension basically is more analogous to a recall, where one particular failure mode is warranted beyond the standard 1 year. His error, while still hardware, probably doesn't result from the same systemic manufacturing problem that causes the RROD error.
Does it suck? Yes. Is 1 year a ridiculously short warranty for these game consoles? Yes. Is MS in the wrong? Not really.
I convinced them, wasn't even hard either. Im almost positive its all in who you get. I have twice already gotten my wifes machine covered under the RRoD replacement, despite the first time it being a drive failure and not a RRoD.
Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back. If you wrap it in a towel and put it somewhere small it will overheat, which is the general consensus as to what causes the RROD. Then it will be covered and free and they'll more than likely send you a different unit.
This is no different from having a car break on you, hoping it was due to a recalled part, but it's not. You don't really expect them to fix your problem because there's a know issue somewhere else, do you? MS was explicit - only the 3 RROD is covered by the 3 year warranty. Your blaming MS customer support for following their rules?
The first Xbox sucked. That's why I never even considered purchasing a 360. I'm really glad I didn't buy one to have to go through this.
What happened to the good old consoles? My NES still works and I think I bought that in like 1986. (Okay, my mom bought it, I was 5.)
Its been like that for awhile. I've had two friends get other error messages then rrod it with the towel and call them then and get a new one.
Just send it in anyway saying that it's a 3-ring problem. I had the same 1-ring E74 error and I said it was 3-ring and they fixed it for free.
Microsoft is completely within their rights at this point. They had specified that the three-year extended warranty is essentially the equivalent to a recall on a known issue - if it's something different, why would they need to step outside the bounds of what is all ready a huge customer opportunity?
I echo odhen on this one - it's why I don't own a 360. It shouldn't be a 'rite of passage' to have it break on you.
If one were inclined to be suspicious, its not a far leap to wonder if MS jiggered the fault coding so that a random number of lights go off for the RROD problem, thus cutting their expenses drastically.
A friend of mine had his fixed and he had a graphics problem. I think he just told them it was the 3 RROD, and they fixed it.
@odhen: I'd like one, but with all the issues, I think it shows that Microsoft is just not a good hardware company.
This is the one and only reason I advocate buying Best Buy's "extended warranty." I had this problem on two seperate 360's and a trip to Best Buy, no questions asked, brand new 360.
I'm sure my luck will run out eventually, my current extension goes until August of 2010...
Maybe I'll drop it, get a new one, and put a new extension on it ....
Reminds me of the Star Trek TNG episode where Picard is tortured:
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!
I had a problem where my games would freeze after a few minutes of play. Since it wasn't 3-ring, Microsoft wouldn't fix it without me paying $99.
So, I sold it to Gamestop and got a decent amount back. They couldn't tell it wasn't working right because the games play fine at first.
I kept my old hard drive, bought a XBOX Arcade, and everything was fine. Gave me a new warranty to work off of too, just in case.
E74 is a video card error. You may have seen little red blips before you turned your console off? Looked like thick red matrix style pixels down the screen.
It most definitely is not covered under the RROD extended warantee because it is not caused by overheating. I have not heard of any outpouring of users getting this specific error but everyone had to pay the $99. Hey with that $99 you get a new 1 year warantee.
Either pay up the $99 get a repaired [not replaced] console with a new year warantee or buy a new arcade 360 for $200 [but then again you get the Jasper console if you didn't have it already].
Good luck to the OP getting it sorted out.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I know a few people that had this situation.
Their solution was to take the 360, wrap it in a towel, turn it on and let it overheat until they got the RROD.
I'm also not sure how much testing they do when they get a defective console back.
When my console starting getting the RROD, it would only do so after about 1 1/2 hours of playing. I sent it in worried that they wouldn't test it long enough, and would tell me it was fine. Well, I got notice that they had received the console, and about half an hour later they told me they were shipping a replacement, which leads me to wonder whether they tested it at all.
Maybe its worth sending it in saying it is getting 3 red lights, and see if they correct you? Worst case is you have to pay for the repair that you have to pay for anyways?
After all the issues the XBox has had I would have just lied and put the typical RROD issue and sent it in and fought with them from there. I bet you'd of won the dispute.
My 360 started freezing constantly, but no red lights. Instead of going through the repair process, which would have left me unable to play anything for weeks, and still cost me $99, I went out and bought a new Arcade unit, which had just been price-dropped to $200.
He can always do what I did when I had the EXACT same issue. Here is a transcript:
Me: My Xbox has 1 flashing red light. Is that covered for free?
Support: No, if it was 3 flashing red lights then it would be covered, but 1 light is not covered. It will cost $99.
Me: Oh...well, it's 3 flashing red lights, so that will be covered right?
Support: Yes, 3 lights is covered.
2 weeks later I have a working Xbox for no charge.
@SahuaritaSam Thanks for pawning your problem off to someone else.
@JGKojak: Oh, DAMN you. I was so excited to come here and say that, and you had to beat me.
The torture could just stop if Matthew would tell them there are 3 lights.
But with all due respect, MS did fix this problem. Granted, it only took them 3 FUCKING YEARS, but they did it.
I've owned 2 Wiis (sold them both because they're glorified board games) and currently own a 360 and PS3. The 360 is my gaming console and the PS3 is my Blu-Ray player. While you can tell MS wasn't a HW company, you can tell Sony isn't a software company. I don't want to turn this into a flame war, but it's a shame they couldn't combine the software functionality of the 360 with the hardware of the PS3.
I'm waiting for my 360's DVD drive to eat up a game one day, because that's what it sounds like it is trying to do.
I got E74 1 REd light 2 weeks ago. Luckily I was under warranty still and they fixed it. The GPU died in it.
I find it a little disconcerting that a lot of people are suggesting that the OP should defraud Microsoft by overheating his system on purpose. If a company was found to be intentionally defrauding customers, everyone would be up in arms about it, but it's OK for a consumer to do it?
"3 red lights means life after death.
1 red light means eternal darkness and damnation."
Uncomfortable pause.
(Clear throat sound).
(Take deep breath)
...Roxaaaaaaaane...
Yeah. That just happened with my Xbox, for the second time, and this one was out of warranty. They said the say thing, that I would have to shell out $100 to have it fixed. I said screw that, sold ALL of my 360 gear and bought a PS3. They are done taking my money for hardware that fails this frequently.
I'm sure many of us have computer equipment laying around that is more than 3 years old. The laptop I use regularly was built in like 2001. What is so special about this game console that makes it only work for a year or two? I don't know much about them, but does it even have moving parts? What could possibly go wrong with a bunch of circuit boards?
Just keep doing things to it until it gets a RRoD. Dishonest I guess, but if it gets you a free repair, it gets you a free repair.
For that matter, this is why when people ask me about buying an Xbox 360, I tell them, "Buy it at Best Buy, and spend the extra $40 on the three or four year extended warranty."
This way, ANY issue you have with the 360, you just take it back to Best Buy, and they give you a new one, no muss, no fuss.
With Microsoft, you'll be waiting a month to get it back. I'm not kidding. All of my friends who've had to send in their system have waited at least 3 to 5 weeks to get it back.
I will say that the level of hardware failure the 360 is having is ludicrous. I read somewhere that the reason is Microsoft didn't properly conduct hardware testing in the final stages of development. Normally companies test 1 million units for defect rates, but apparently Microsoft only tested somewhere around 300,000 units. This was because they wanted to get to market a full year ahead of Sony and Nintendo.
Sadly, Sony is apparently starting to have their own issues, being dubbed the Yellow Light of death, which pertains to the Blu-ray laser assembly in the system.
@squinko: Honestly in this case and in mine (where I simply lied) it is in Microsoft's best interest. It is a widely known fact that they make little to no profit off of the system and a huge profit on games and accessories. I purchase tons of games and accessories. I was not going to pay for the repair at all, I would have just went without a 360. So for them to fix the system at little to no cost to themselves ended up making them a much larger amount of money in the long run wehn I bought Halo 3, GTA4, Gears 2, Halo Wars, RE5, Bioshock etc.
@cabjf: "All the issues" is a relative term. Nearly 30 million consoles have been sold since launch. Since more people moan than they do praise, its hard to judge the true failure rate.
Microsoft's hardware is fine. Their keyboards and mice are probably better than beloved Logitech. I've used both and Logitech has been on the decline in the past 5 years or so. The 360 controller quality as well. I don't own a PS3 but compared to the PS2 controller, its world's better...
"Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back."
This is quite unethical. I'm shocked that the Consumerist would even allow a comment that advocates this type of action.
It also probably won't fix the guy's problem. 1 ring and 3 ring are caused by different issues. They'll fix the 3 ring issue for free, but he'd still have to pay to have the other issue fixed.
He should first determine what the actual issue is. See here: [www.llamma.com]
It's probably the DVD drive.
"Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back. If you wrap it in a towel and put it somewhere small it will overheat, which is the general consensus as to what causes the RROD. Then it will be covered and free and they'll more than likely send you a different unit."
Yes. The problem, from what I've read, causes the thermal paste to break up and not transfer heat from the CPU to the heat sink anymore (at least in the little gaps that need it). Wrapping a towel around the system would cause the problem rapidly, though I question the morality of that.
"The first Xbox sucked. That's why I never even considered purchasing a 360. I'm really glad I didn't buy one to have to go through this.
What happened to the good old consoles? My NES still works and I think I bought that in like 1986. (Okay, my mom bought it, I was 5.)"
Apples to oranges. The original NES had it's own problems (the contacts die after a time, this is well documented). Also, when there are fewer moving parts and more sensitive transistors, you have more problems.
That said, the original XBox had very few problems. There was a recall of the power cable that affected something like .014% of all owners, and otherwise no overarching problems. Maybe you're thinking of the PSX and PS2?
I love me some video games, but I am passing on the current generation of consoles (though I do have a PSP).
The Xbox 360 is a pathetically unreliable piece of junk. Only video game addicts would put up with this outrageously high failure rate.
The Wii doesn't do it for me -- I want better graphics, and I'm fine with conventional PlayStation-type controllers.
The PS3 would be my choice -- if it were priced under $300 and came with a rumble controller in the box. I don't care about blu-ray, and I don't care about online gaming. I just want an advanced game console to replace my PS2.
It's unfortunate that Sony put corporate synergy (selling movies) above the wishes of the gaming public...
@squinko: Because for all purposes thats EXACTLY what Microsoft did. The Xbox 360 has some major know issues on it, and not just reported issues but leaked internal Microsoft memos ADMITTING there are known issues with it because it was rushed out to beat the Wii and Playstation 3.
The only reason the 3 year RRoD warrantee exists is because of those leaked memos, but on top of that there are Power Brick issues, GPU issues, and disk drive issues to contend with that caused the system to fail within a year until they where mostly corrected with the recent versions.
But Microsoft wont admit to the other issues, and even their RRoD service has gone from being easy to take care of to the point they wont even send you a box anymore, you have to find one and attach a sticker to the thing to send it back and it can take up to a month or longer that your now out a system.
So while it is kinda defrauding them in a way, the truth is they did it first.
And just so you know, the towel trick doesn't work with the new system, only the ones that would have failed anyway as the RRoD was a overheating problem. So its a bad machine in the first place if it works.
squinko 11:26 AM I find it a little disconcerting that a lot of people are suggesting that the OP should defraud Microsoft by overheating his system on purpose. If a company was found to be intentionally defrauding customers, everyone would be up in arms about it, but it's OK for a consumer to do it?
Get over it! Its 100% their fault we have so many failures. I hope they have to pay out of their ass. Maybe they have learned their lesson and the next one will be free from failures of this scale. By the way I have 4 Xbox 360 and have had 0 failures so far. But I know every time I turn it on there is a chance it will fail.
When you bought your Xbox 360, There is a paper inside it where for 30 days you can by a extended warranty to cover the more rare issues like this.
Unfortunately you rolled the dice and lost.
It's like complaining your house burnt down, you didn't buy insurance and you want the insurance company to come fix your home for free.
Sorry man after one year your on your own. This is the issue with complex electronic purchases.in todays day and age.
Not that it doesn't suck when costly hardware breaks and the customer has to pay to have it repaired, but this distinction between RROD (covered for 3 years) and the $99 fee for other repairs has been pretty well covered by various gaming-related sites. Still not fun. I know I wasn't thrilled when it cost me $99 to fix mine, but better that than the full cost to replace an elite.
You mean like MS defrauded us with the crap console? I see no problem whatsoever in 'playing' Microsoft's game by forcing 3 rings. They are the ones that knowingly released a faulty console to gain market share. So the more pain they feel the better.
Perhaps they will better test the next box so that these problems are not part of the Xbox 'experience'. You certainly dont face these issues with Sony, my PS3 has run without a SINGLE issue from day one.
I thought that this was a well known warranty exception? It says right on the website that only 3 red rings is covered for the additional warranty. I just this weekend went out and bought another Xbox 360 because of the E 74 error. I contemplated overheating my Xbox 360 to get it fixed but I set it up for repair and am trying it out to see if they will fix it anyway. I have manually fixed my Xbox once before by pulling it apart and re-applying thermal paste. It worked for a long time, over a year before the GPU just simply went out on it.
It's nice enough of Microsoft to extend a warranty to customers for the 3 red rings, they do not have to do it, they just do it to save face. Bad design issues or not they do not have to cover it.
The fix is simple, and I'm pretty sure most people can do it, there are many guides online that walk you through picture by picture, step by step, it costs about $15 and usually works. The warranty that you have is already expired so you won't lose anything. Plus if you really wanted to, you could heat the Microsoft sticker with a hair dryer and then put a knife behind it, slide behind it and it should come off without ruining the sticker.
I paid $400 for my Pro system back in November of 06, I own over 50 Xbox 360 games, 4 wireless controllers, 120 GB HDD, 3 headsets (1 wireless) and many many TV shows and arcade games downloaded. Just because you feel like you are getting the shaft on the warranty, you are not the only one. A new Arcade is only $200, and you get an additional controller and Sega Superstars Tennis(sigh). With you saying you have put a good amount of money into your set up, I think you could afford to buy a new one. You may not feel like you have to, I didn't but shit happens. Stuff breaks.
@jpdanzig:
All models of the PS3 in current production come with DualShock 3 (i.e. rumble) controllers.
Frustratingly enough, the same issue happened with my 360, and about a week after the included 1 year warranty expired. So I was basically forced to pay Microsoft an additional $100 for shipping and another whole year of warranty coverage! WOO!
I believe that once I get a PS3, I'll be buying all cross-console releases on that machine instead.
I get asked why I don't have a 360 relatively often...this is why.