I liked consumerist more when "use an EECB" was "Hey guys, this is the a-bomb, the weapon of last resort, don't use it too much because you're in danger of watering down its effectiveness. Try customer service and the BBB first".

This strikes me as lazy, every story I read just says "hey, why not try an EECB?" If anyone attempts an EECB over a $5 issue, they're using it wrong, no?

You're missing the point. The little things are just practice for when it really counts, arguing for two hours for $5 means that when they screw you for hundreds of dollars you are well prepared for the shit storm that lies ahead. Being a crafty consumer isn't something you can just flip on or off depending on how much money is at stake, its just like anything else, practice makes perfect.

@WiglyWorm: Yes and no. I recently used one to get my email address removed from a prominent company's email list.

Their "unsubscibe" didn't work at least half a dozen times, and an email to customer service didn't work.

Within 1 hour and 20 minutes of sending a very respectable EECB, the manager of the customer service department was personally handling my situation.

If you try the normal channels of service, and they're not working, escalate it.

I don't care who fixes my problem, if it's the CEO or the lowest paid telephone rep. Just fix it.

I read Consumerist for free in my, uh, free time. Having my phone on speaker to listen to hold music at the same to make $2.50 an hour would be a bonus.

@WiglyWorm: I find myself agreeing in terms of an EECB being used as a weapon of last resort, and a $5 dollar issue does seem like it isn't worth the trouble.

However, on the other side of the coin I look at today's economy where every dollar counts. I look at how companies are generally not profitable. While an EECB shouldn't have to be a first option, perhaps now it is acceptable. A company can do so much for itself these days by making a customer happy. Plus, to avoid the hassle executives should make the necessary changes in their business to avoid an EECB ever landing at their feet.

The kind of person that uses an EECB over $5 is the same kind of person that fights with WalMart greeters over showing their receipt.

@WiglyWorm: For all the times and the amount of time we've told people about EECBs I don't see any decline in its effectiveness based on the emails we get. I believe most executives want to know about the big problems that their front line is messing up, but are often insulated from the real issue by layers of management and the outsourcing of customer service. Seeing executive customer service addresses and numbers and companies go into Twitter indicates that companies want to encourage this kind of behavior, yes, when warranted.

You're missing the point. The little things are just practice for when it really counts, arguing for two hours for $5 means that when they screw you for hundreds of dollars you are well prepared for the shit storm that lies ahead. Being a crafty consumer isn't something you can just flip on or off depending on how much money is at stake, its just like anything else, practice makes perfect.

@Ben Popken: I should note that I meant "I liked the EECB better". I still quite enjoy Consumerist and don't see that changing (so glad you guys were able to hire your other writers back, but that's a whole other comment thread).

That is exactly what I was worried about, but I presume you have a better grasp of it than I. If you're saying CEOs aren't turning on their spam filter rules in Outlook, I'll believe it and join in saying "Bombs away!" :)

If you're on hold for two hours before anyone picks up, then pray tell who are you supposed to tell to send you to a supervisor?

You have to start somewhere after all.

What ever happened to the principle of the thing?

@Homerjay - (insert star here): i.e. a real Consumerist

I wouldn't say "don't waste time with customer service." Instead, I would give tips on how to best deal with customer service so that you get the results you want within the shortest time frame. I won't be so "used to" poor or ignorant CSRs that I won't deal with them at all. I imagine many companies are banking on you doing just that.

Here's how I generally do it:

1) Make sure I fully understand my problem first. If I'm confused about how something happened on my bill or whatever the case may be, I look over all the paperwork I can to try and fully understand my problem instead of being on the phone flustered, hoping that the CSR on the other end will figure it out FOR me (which will be 20 minutes of my life I can't get back).

It also arms me with facts and I can point to specifics that they should also see in their system and allows me to say exactly what kind of resolution I want.

2) I always try to start off as polite and nice as possible, even if the person I'm dealing with isn't trying to be polite with me. It's so cliche, but you DO get more with honey instead of vinegar. If the person they spoke with before just cussed them out, they'll be more likely to be helpful to someone who is being as nice as possible. Which means don't call when you're steaming mad (if you can help it - but I have been guilty of an angry call or 3...or 4 in my life).

3) Explain your problem as clearly and as briefly as possible - give facts but don't give them too much too fast. They probably have to look some stuff up. "I think there's a problem with my bill. I noticed on my statement dated [date] that there's an extra charge for [item], but [reason why it shouldn't be there]."

4) If you know you're correct and they're not budging, pull the "Well, I've been a customer with you guys for [x] years and I've never had this problem." or "Well, I really like your service and I would hate to cancel it over something like this."

5) If they're still not budging or you think they're giving you incorrect information when you know something CAN be done about your problem, politely escalate. "I know you probably have limited authority with this or may have incorrect information. Could you please connect me with your supervisor?" Just be prepared to explain why you think you're correct.

6) End the call well. "Hey, I appreciate your help on this. Thanks very much."

That's just how I do it, personally - and I've gotten some pretty decent results the vast majority of the time. But to NOT deal with CSRs because we've become used to them being ridiculous? No, sir. I will hold your company accountable for it's products/services as well as its customer service.

I also have a notebook that I write in whenever I have to call somebody about anything - especially related to my money or a service I'm enrolled in. I always write down the date, time, name of the person I spoke with, and exactly what was said/done. Being able to reference this information if you have to call again helps.

@Vanilla5: I think people overuse #4; they're ready to whip it out right out of the gate. While the CSRs are trained to not ignore threats like that, it gets old. And if the threat is used without due cause (I mean the first offense, $5 accidental charge, not an ongoing or large issue), don't be surprised if it gets noted on your account and you're treated like an overreacting spazz the next time you call to cry about an issue.

Vanilla, I use a lot of your techniques when calling, and I have gotten great results. Just recently Verizon made me proud when I called about something that was my mistake. I ran up a huge overage fee on my cell and called to see if we could arrange a payment plan. I explained that I was sorry, we had a family emergency and I wasn't paying attention to when calls came in, and could I possibly split the charge out over two or three months? The CSR was incredibly nice and cut 2/3 of my overage charge from my bill. I don't think they would have been as helpful if I'd called raging about their overage fees.

Fighting over $5 in most cases is worth it because companies begin using that as a tactic to make more money and provide nothing in return. They assume if the dollar amount is low enough a large percentage of people will bend over and take it giving them free money. Some of those little charges are easy to get reversed.

In a real problem situation, larger dollar amounts or larger implications the CSRs get two chances to fix it on the phone. Your likely to get a CSR who won't do their job, hopefully the next one you get isn't like that. Otherwise try to escalate it or go to the exec level. I have noticed most call centers will no longer give you to a supervisor.

If your totally in the right I think you should also ask to be compensated for your wasted time. This is more true in situations where your fixing their screw up.

Escalate to a supervisor? I haven't had a customer service rep allow me to do that for years. Every time I ask for a supervisor (politely, I might add) I'm told that either there are no supervisors there or that the person I'm talking to just happens to be the supervisor. When I ask for someone above them on the food-chain, I'm flatly refused.

@SiddhimaLibnut: additionally, why would you ever let them keep money they rightfully owe you(--isn't it a very small theft?), and where is the line drawn between worth or not worth the fight? isn't the point supposed to be a good relationship with the customer? it isn't so much making yourself right as it is fighting the good fight. there needs to be real changes within the companies when it comes to customer service--there shouldn't have to be 2 hour holds for $5. this article is disheartening coming from the consumerist. : (

I am a CSR for a major Bank and I have some helpful hints to help you out.

@SiddhimaLibnut: The reverse of this is true.

The more people that decide the $5 is worth it, the less likely the company in question will try to sneak in random $5 'accidents in their favor.'

They're not all accidents. Some of these incidents are simply because they can, or are intentionally designed to sweep small amounts from many people.

A belligerent, or at least wary customer base is a good thing.

Not if your making money off of being on the phone with customer care.

[consumerist.com]

@Vanilla5: Great comment -- better than the original story (sorry, Ben).

I also like to sound exasperated (which I usually am), but remain very level-headed and polite, even cordial. Let the CSR know that you've been battling this a while, your not going to give up, but that have and will remain civil.

Sometimes $5 bucks isn't work fighting for, but sometimes it is.

The other problem is the sunk-costs issue: you don't think you are going to be on hold for two hours, but after five minutes, another ten seems worth trying, and then you don't want to start all over again with another fifteen minutes on a new call. Plus you get kind of curious how long they're going to leave you parked.

I've usually got something of more impact than $5 to wait for anyway, but in general, I think Vanilla5's advice is good; couple that with Yossarian's implication that if you multitask while you're waiting, you're not just wasting the time and it's probably going to keep you in better temper as a result.

Unless I am working 24 hours a day with no break, then yes I will fight for my $5.00.
Are consumers winning the customer service war? Not if you let companies take what is yours.

DRM, high bank fees, ATM fees, ridiculous text message rates, pay toilets on planes - all results of customers not complaining enough to get rid of them.

If you let companies screw you now in this bad economy, God help us all when the economy gets better.

@cynical_bastard:

Thank you for the shortest and single most important post I read today.

If I'm gonna screw around on the internet anyway (and hands free will let me do this) then it's not so much time wasted as it is a nice bonus

@SiddhimaLibnut:

I think you're missing the point of the post. The point of the post wasn't to let the company win and just have the $5.00, it was to find a better tactic than to have the same argument for 2 hours over a small amount. Sometimes, you can't win using only one avenue, and you have to open your options, and also just figure out how much you value your time. If you'd rather argue for 2 hours, than send an email, or find a more efficient method, then that's your choice, but the point wasn't to not argue, it was to do it efficiently and get your money without wasting your time.

Wonder if Ben might have bumped his head over the weekend.

@Vanilla5: I love, love, LOVE your points! There's a CSR aspect to my job (social service), and I deal with three different types of attitude/complaint combos:

An irate caller (ANY irate caller) will get immediately escalated - to a telephone number manned by a touch-tone robot backed with indifferent bureaucrats. Buh-bye!

Someone who calls with a legit beef and maintains an even keel will get their issue resolved ASAP - and I will fight the bureaucrats for them (or tell them how to get immediate satisfaction from the bureaucracy).

Someone who may not have a legit beef but keeps calm about the complaint will at least get my sympathy and a full explanation about why I can't give them the resolution they want.

@nbs2: I forgot to mention that I am both of those people. :)

I don't agree.

I had some problems with citibank and the first time I used customer service first and then I EECBed them. The problem was solved in a few days.

The second time (4 months later, different account) they tried to screw me over I just EECBed them and got a form letter back. I sent a second letter telling them I didn't appreciate that. I talked to a very condecending manager that said if you don't talk to customer service first, the company will give you the cold shoulder. Lets just say that once my debt is paid back, I will no longer be a customer of citicrap.

I hate the "supervisor" thing. You don't really want a supervisor; you want to be elevated to the next level in the support chain. A "supervisor" is the person that the employee works for. He signs the time card, and performs the performance reviews, and if necessary disciplines employees. He probably also doesn't know every detail of the employee's job. This really isn't the person that can help you, and asking for a supervisor is pretty much saying, "hey, lemme talk to your boss."

Instead, ask to be escalated in the support chain or service chain.

that sounds like a good money making tactic for companies, only take a little bit from each customer and take the CS bad enough so that it's not worth their time to complain.

Oh and set up fake exec mail boxes to for those 'smart' consumers that mail all of the company execs. perhaps actually have it work 1 out of 1000 times (or something) so people keep on thinking it's a viable alternative to having good CS reps.

As long as driving and sitting on hold remains legal, I'll have 24 hours a month in which to work with customer service people. Yeah, it's often horrible, but I usually get an acceptable result (or, at least, acceptable promises) by the end of the trip. I did see Ben's comment to the effect that EECBs are still effective, but I don't think that would remain true if people started carpet bombing without even trying the normal channels.

Besides, if you bypass customer service, you won't be able to bitch about it when you do launch an EECB, and these out-of-band interactions may be the only way the executives get good intel on their own organizations.

Opps.

1. Don't be rude.

2.We don't want hear your life story, So, Just get to point.

3. The whole I been a custormer (x) years doesn't help. What does help is the history on your acct. If you were late or what not. Let the acct speak for you.

4. We and Sups can only do so much. So, don't expect for us to jump over the moon for you. If we can't do it. Then we cant do it. If we can then we will.

5. Pay attention. NO reps likes, to repeat themselves.

6. Have all your info ready, like your Acct # ready, or SSN.

7. Don't complain about the wait time. If you are on hold for 2 hours then you should hang up and try at a different time. Early morning, and late evening would be a good time to call, it normaly alot slower then.

8. Be grateful! If we do jump over the moon for you, or do something that we don't normally do. Say thank you. It helps. Saying thank you goes a long way. When all we get is yelling and swearing from people that have no idea what they are talking about.

I hope this helps

have a great day.

What do you suggest then for companies that only have one customer service phone number. Recently I had to call a company and did manage to escalate the call and talk to someone a little more experienced. However, that just seemed to make it worse since that person had no supervisor and the "buck stopped with her." It seems to me sometimes you are just screwed.

@Janna Garrett: I don't believe for a second that the person you talked to had no supervisor. I've been told that, too. When I didn't go away, the rep miraculously found a supervisor for me to talk to.

This may be helpful for some. Several weeks back when mortgage rates were low (4.625%), I locked a refi rate. Due to a perfect storm of incompetence, I was in danger of losing my rate because the bank hadn't ordered my payoff from the old bank. They claimed they couldn't get through to my lender, which turned out to be true. Their 800 number was busy all the time. Mortgage lenders in my state (Georgia) are regulated and have contact info (with phone numbers) on the state website for handling complaints sent through the department. I skipped the state middleman and called the VP of Compliance of my old lender directly. I offered her a chance to rectify the effective hostage status of my mortgage before I complained to the state. I was looking at my payoff statement 20 minutes later.

So, for regulated industries, don't forget resources made available by the government, or even the government itself. I've also had good luck with the state insurance commissioner's office on a seperate issue.

Generally people don't make money during their free time, they are either idle, or spending money.

If you're just going to be playing xbox, you might as well dial someone up and save some money while you're at it.

@h3llc4t: True - people do overuse it sometimes. I've only used it once on each of these companies: Comcast (been w/ them since 2007 - that was a particularly satisfying resolution for me), Bank of America (since 2001), Citibank (been w/ them since 2002 but my adviser from school is a shareholder since '84 and made me mention that to them), and AT&T (since 2001 and have 3 lines on my account w/ them).

I use it sparingly but sometimes you just have to play that card.

@SiddhimaLibnut: I agree also. And haven't we seen a few articles on Consumerist about small frauds committed on credit card customers; amounts you aren't supposed to notice or care about? Maybe I am one person arguing over one $5 charge, or maybe I am one of thousands (millions?). Either way, I have a right to be heard by the company.

Sometimes you have to get something fixed though. When Verizon mysteriously reduced by internet speed and I noticed it, I was not going to sit back and pay for a more expensive speed when I was not getting that on my computer. Even though I had to spend an hour or 2 on the phone with a very nice and apologetic CSR I felt my time was worth it.

@aerick79: What are they?

@Yossarian:

Agreed.

Also, if I have to make calls to a CS dept. it's usually during business hours, so I'd be getting paid by my employer to sit on hold for 2 hours and also get that $2.50. Plus I'd be getting work done all at the same time.

Seems like a good deal to me.

(Of course if I'm on hold for more than 15 min, I hang up and try again later. But that's just me. Very impatient).

@Homerjay is offering a reward to the person who finds his m...: Right on, brother!

@WiglyWorm: I see companies using the EECB as a gating device for doling out decent customer service. From their perspective, they will deal with the most number of customers as cheaply as possible, and the EECB "hurdle" is a convenient way for them to identify higher value/more dangerous customers to pacify. i had to do it recently with att (after 4 hours w/customer service, which i'll never do again) and they've clearly got it dialed in to their escalation tree.

My friends used to laugh at me and mock me for the time and trouble I go through with various customer service reps but it's a skill like everything else. The more often I've done it, the better I am at it. The thing is, these companies don't think twice about screwing us out of our money. At the very least I'm going to tie up a few of their employees. I've even gone to my state's AG consumer affairs division, the public service board, you name it.

It all comes down to the very simple idea that I've agreed to pay a certain set price for a certain service. When I don't hold up my end, they discontinue service, when they don't hold up there end, I don't pay.

@Vanilla5: Unfortunately we live in the era of the 100% Satisfaction guarantee, which seems to convince a lot of people that as long as they come up with a reason they aren't happy with something, CSRs should bend over backwards for them until they are.

I've spent the last 4 years working in customer service at both the retail and call center levels and I can tell you a significant number of so-called "Difficult" customers were difficult not because they had a problem that could not be solved but that they simply wanted unrealistic results. A few examples:

1) A lady who wanted an ENTIRE YEAR of free service because of a $9.50 charge we apparently charged her in error

2) A man who wanted a free Blackberry because he'd been with us so long (Blackberrys are like $500+ PDAs)

3) Someone who refused to be satisfied unless they received a check for $2000 representing every apparent billing error our company caused in the three years they had us for and a personal apology from the CEO for the shoddy service.

4) Multiple people who thought they deserved free phones because it took awhile to get their situation straightened out (and by "Awhile" I mean maybe 30-45 mins).

5) Another person called in for no reason other than simply wanting compensation for the apparent customer service issues he'd experienced. My sup shot him down fast.

The point is there's this belief that when a company makes a mistake, their response should be not only to fix the mistake and offer an apology but to throw some extra in on top of that. I agree this is warranted in SOME CIRCUMSTANCES (mainly some of the major CS clusterfucks that end up as articles on this site) but in most cases, a quick resolution and apology should be enough. Mistakes happen.

@dragonfire81: One thing I should add about example 2 above, the guy wanted the free Blackberry contract free.