They probably were real Roman cops, too. Just saying.

@Ash78Ash78: lewl

Coercion plain and simple. WaMu fails.

Funny how its the banks policy that when getting robbed, the tellers are told to give the robbers the money. I guess that comes out of the tellers paychecks right?

1234, but that's the same number as on my luggage!

Why is this WAMUs responsibility? If he had three hundred in cash and gave that up, would the bank be responsible to pay him back? The guy gave up his pin #. That's the same as giving up cash if you ask me. Now, I certainly don't think that it's his fault that he got robbed. I probably would have done the same thing, after all, better alive and broke than dead and rich ($300 worth of rich anyway). I still don't see how WAMU is on the hook for this though. The fifty dollar rule has to do with MC/VS and without it I would never use a card w a credit logo on it.

I've got to side with WaMu on this one. I really don't want to but it's in no way anyone's fault but his. He gave up the card and the pin, he should've known better. He could've lied about remembering it until he was taken to a police station. He could have went to the police and filed a report later.

Bad things happen in life, you can't always pass the buck to someone with bigger pockets.

@WaywardSoul: Ah right, so if it's a choice of getting shot or giving up your PIN/card/money, I guess we know which to go with now...

I'm not sure why you wouldn't give them the wrong PIN?

@sir_eccles:

SPACEBALLS!!!!

@hewhoroams: Because chances are they aren't going to be friendly and give it back if it doesn't work.

Did they make him give away his iPod too?

@WaywardSoul:

He could've lied about remembering it until he was taken to a police station. He could have went to the police and filed a report later.

I'm losing my tolerance for people like you every day.

@wagenejm:

How exactly is it plain or simple? Where's the corroboration?

@DrMorison:

Minor correction, that's $50 *federal regulation*, as in "US Law." It isn't merely a term of the cardholder agreement.

@catnapped:

Wait, there was a gun now? They said they would shoot him?

The military police over there are pretty intimidating. Although, at one of the festivals last winter, I saw one playing foosball in a park with some locals. It was pretty funny.

@Xkeeper:

Umm, how exactly would they find him again? THey walked off with the debt card. They didn't use it right there. He could have told them anything and they would have walked off anyway.

@WaywardSoul:

This is a slippery slope. There's a reason the first-$50 regulation was passed.

First, he "authorized" it because he gave them his PIN and no one complains. Next thing you know, you're the one on the hook because you "authorized" it by paying with your card and signing, even though you swear you signed a slip that said $30 and not $3000.

This is how the credit card companies got away with "mysteriously" not getting your payment in the mail until *after* the due date. For decades.

It's crazy to conclude that giving up a PIN due to a reasonable belief you are in danger is "authorizing" the card's use.

I think the failure to file a police report is a legitimate reason for not reimbursing. However, I think that reason was an after the fact rationalization.

I think that WaMu has the better position in this, even if it took four tries to get to a good reason, but if I were in their position, I think I'd reimburse the money as a show of good faith and customer service and make sure that my customer service script included something about filing a police report whenever a card is something other than "lost."

@Yossarian:

Without the police report, there's no evidence any of this occurred. Even a police report would just be taking down his side of the story verbatim but at least it's something if the banks have to file a claim for their records. If you really believed you were mugged, it seems sorta insane not to report it to the police.

There is no way for WAMU to have prevented this, it is not different than if he had the cash on him and they took his wallet.

Can someone please tell me how WAMU could have prevented this?

i really don't think this is much different than if they stole cash. if they held a gun at him at the ATM and made hime take out $300 from his ATM and give it to them, nobody would expect WaMu to reimburse him. it's unfortunate that he was mugged, but that doesnt mean someone else owes him money(other than the mugger if caught of course).

@lars2112:

People aren't claiming Wamu could have prevented this. They're saying that Wamu should just take his word for it and cough up the money, taking the financial hit for this guy.

Sorry to the poor guy, but I agree with WaMu.

Giving out your PIN? You never do that.

Granted the guy said the people were intimidated, he first says he thought it was good to 'play along' and then later tries telling WaMu he was 'coerced'. He made the decision to hand over the card and pin number.

In addition, he didn't file a police report. In this aspect, the article doesn't say why he didn't file the police report, the author of the article only tries to justify his reason for not doing it.

Either way, even though the two men identified themselves as undercover police officers needing to 'confirm his identity' using his debit card and PIN # (What??? How do you do that?), there is one very good thing about being an American overseas... it's called an American Embassy.

If he didn't want to go to the police by himself, he should have contacted the American Embassy in Rome to assist him in finding the correct procedure for filing a police report.

[italy.usembassy.gov]

Lesson learned the hard way. Don't give out your PIN Number, ever ever, again.

Also, this does bring up the reverse PIN number system some banks are trying. For example, your PIN is 1234. In an emergency situation, or in a robbery case like this one, you would give out the reverse PIN 4321 and the ATM would accept it. It would allow you to withdraw money and everything would seem normal. However, the police would actually be notified that your card was being used in a crime (or you are currently a victim of a crime) and they would be sent out.

It's a great system. And it especially helps notify the bank when there is no authorized use of the card.

However, I heard that when some banks were testing this program the cardholders would accidentally use the reverse PIN as the correct PIN because they couldn't remember the correct four numbers.

It's a shame when the stupidity of some people will kill a perfect good and necessary system.

@Xkeeper:

By that time he won't be in the same location.

@henwy: If WAMU could not have prevented this, then why should they have to cover this loss? I lend you $300, you lose it, why should I forgive the loan?

Trust me I hate WAMU but I just don't think they should be on the hook for this one.

@henwy:

Once, when I first moved to Chicago, I was visiting a new friend for the first time somewhere in the loop. I ended up staying at his place until past midnight and when I left to go home, I found my car had been towed. I didn't know what to do about it at first since I didn't know the guy I had been visiting well enough to impose on him and all I had in my wallet was around $12.

I ended up speaking to the doorman at the building and he said that the tow yard wasn't all that far away. it was just several blocks away and I could make it on foot. As I left the building and started walking through the neighborhood, I probably stuck out like a sore thumb. I was wearing a backpack and probably had a touristy look about me.

At one point, I stopped to ask a guy on the side of the street for directions to the tow lot. He gave them to me, I thanked him, and continued on my trek. I was half a block further along when I noticed that he was following me. There weren't all that many people about and it was sort of obvious. At the next light, I stopped and waited for him, trying to find out what was up. The first words out of his mouth was 'I don't like to hurt people'. In my mind I'm thinking freaking fan-@$#%ing-tastic. He then follows up that gem with 'Some people think I'm crazy, but I'm really not'.

After that wonderful start, he goes into his pitch about how he needs/wants money. I decide to switch my brain to 'stupid' and proceed to tell him that I didn't have any real money on me. I had just had my car towed and would probably need to hit an atm just to get my car out of hock. At that point he lifts and arm and points out that there's an atm machine just 30 feet away. I may be occasionally stupid but I'm not suicidal. I ended up giving him some of the little money I had left and left the area as fast as I could.

I found out later that I was walking right past cabrini green at the time. I guess I should just feel fortunate I wasn't given 'the hard sell'.

@henwy: I agree, that's why I think WaMu is in the right. Still, if the guy's been a good customer I'd probably couple that with the fact that he was in a foreign country and take the hit on this one. I can understand why WaMu wouldn't, though, even if I probably would if it were my call.

@DrMorison: The reason why we keep money in banks in the first place is for safety's sake. They provide this service for a fee: the interest they collect on our cash. All we expect in return is some safe guarding of the monies.

@idip: I like that reverse pin idea..... I wonder if it would also say you only had like $200 in your account to protect yourself too.

@idip: Totally and completely agreed. It's one thing if someone puts a gun to your head and drags you to the ATM. It's totally another to fall for a dumb scam and give up your PIN. And then, having fallen for said scam, refusing to file a police report, yet expecting to be reimbursed for your losses nonetheless.

@Xkeeper: Perhaps you should re-read my post and then yours. You WILL discover that the only douchebag here is you. The kid was robbed on the street. Tough for him, yes. That's life. Cold, hard, life. If the kid had just withdrawn $300 and it were stolen from his wallet would you still be arguing WaMu should be on the hook? Explain the difference - other than the fact that you want to stick it to the company with deep pockets and no ethical standards.

@Yossarian:

I was reading someone's account of having been pickpocketed by gypsy children while in italy. they ended up taking aroudn 5k in traveller's checks. In order to get them reimbursed he had to go to file the police report and he said that there were a half dozen touristy-looking people in there, all of whom had been targeted in the same way. Then after that, it was off to a local bank branch who had to authorize the whole deal. These things are always cumbersome.

I will admit I'm surprised the customer service rep didn't mention the police report as being necessary for a claim, or maybe he just didn't ask what needed to be done. No one knows at this point without some recording of the customer service call.

@idip: According to some banks, they do not want to implement the reverse PIN technology because it would discourage people from using ATMs. Here's what a Chicago Bank One spokesman says: "The best advice we give to people is to exercise caution and look at their surroundings...There are lots of people who fumble with their PINs. We wouldn't want to cause false alarms."
The article is linked here.

@idip: Sorry, try again.
[www.snopes.com]

@lars2112:

Don't ask me. Like I understand it. Maybe it's just a personal responsibility thing with me but I don't mesh at all with stories like this. It's sort of like that landlord story with the dead woman. It's not the landlord's fault the woman got murdered either. It might be nice if he cut the estate some slack on the rent, but that would be taking income out of his pocket. I don't think you can just assume other people will take the hit for you. It's nice if they do, but you can't expect it, much less demand it.

Just my POV of course.

@ztoop:

The money WAS safe as long as it was in the bank. Once the customer GAVE up his pin code and ALLOWED the muggers to withdraw the money it was no longer in the safety of the bank.

I know this is completely off topic and completely irrelevant to the discussion, but I have that exact same picture. My wife and I went to Italy for our Honeymoon (no muggings real or attempted occurred). That picture I believe is taken from the Vatican Museum right at the end after you've seen the Sistine Chapel and are on your way out.

im proud so many commenters have used the proper usage, PIN, not the misused PIN NUMBER, when speaking on this story

and yes, i find it hard to believe wa-mu has no policy for this beyong denial of claim.

@the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene I realized that I basically said the same thing as you, but I thought I'd provide an article reference. Someone at my work forwarded the article to me with the message LIFE SAVING TIP, but after reading the article, it doesn't appear that any bank has actually implemented the reverse pin technology.

As a general principle, I believe that it is not ok to be greedy or cruel even when it will cost you money to be generous or kind. And that's true even if the situation is in some technical way someone else's fault.

@hewhoroams: Because perhaps he was in shock from the situation he was in and was too scared to think straight. The muggers were said to be intimidating him, how do you react when you feel your life may be threatened?

The only reason I would say WaMu should pay out is if a similar situation happens, and the person gives a fake or no PIN and gets stabbed/beaten/shot, it would look bad for WaMu if they can't say "Well he should have just given them the PIN and then called us"

@chargernj:

I know from firsthand experience that I don't hand over my atm card. That's just me though.

@lars2112: How is this any different then stealing a credit card and buying crap with it? They offer to protect against unauthorized use, they have to protect against unauthorized use!

@henwy: Wow, you probably were pretty lucky. Chicago is weird that way, just a short distance you can go from safe to unsafe.

I'm going to have to side with the victim here. Why? Sure, he shouldn't have given out his pin. So what? Being threatened has a tendency to hinder rational thought. He called WaMu to cancel the card within 2 days, and the rep never said anything about filing a police report when he told her his story (though he still should have). Lastly, because he called within the 2 days, unless filing a police report is mandatory and nobody told me, he followed the legal procedure for limited liability.

Did he think that they were actual cops?