Update: Facebook Agrees To Take Down Dead Relative's Page
Stephanie Bemister says that after our post went up Facebook contacted her and agreed to take down the facebook page of her dead brother, an award-winning investigative journalist and Nazi hunter. "Thank you again, Ben," she wrote. "My family has no words that truly express how we feel." Previously Facebook told her they wouldn't remove the page because...
...it was their policy to keep dead members profile's in a "memorialized" state. Facebook spokesperson Barry Schnitt responded in our comments that they would have honored her request had she identified herself as next of kin. (However, they never told her that's what she had to do). Barry apologized for the confusion and admitted they should have asked for more info instead of summarily rejecting her request.
Barry's note, and Stephanie's letter of thanks, below...
Facebook wrote:
Hi there, all the user has to do is identify themselves as the next of kin and we are happy to close the account. The user in this instance only said she was a relative and used a different name (not the same last name as the user), otherwise we would have granted the request. We should have asked the user for more info and, for that mistake, we apologize. However, it is a simply misunderstanding and your story and their note does not reflect our actual policy.
When we find out a user is deceased, we automatically memorialize an account. Users can also ask to have an account memorialized here: [www.facebook.com] This means that it is frozen (no more friends can be added) and the privacy options are made more strict (friends only). The vast majority of people who contact us about deceased friends want these records maintained so that they and others can remember and celebrate the person. Here is an example: [www.nytimes.com] However, as I mentioned, we're happy to close the account, too, if the person identifies themselves as someone who should have that authority.
Sorry for the confusion.Barry Schnitt
Facebook Communications
Stephanie Bemister wrote:
Dear Ben - I honestly shed tears this morning, when I saw my brother's photo and the article on your site. And what do you think? I received an email from Facebook and they have removed his site today. You did this for me. You have no idea what a relief it is and how much I appreciate what you have done.A journalist recently said to me, "We can't get people to comprehend the issues when using group social sites. We can't get people to even make Wills. How on earth is anyone going to understand what happens to their virtual life when they die. Will they listen?"
No one has thought what the consequences are when they leave this earth, even temporarily when suffering say concussion that puts them out of action for weeks. I read a few years ago about a man who died whose family had no way of accessing his insurance, his Will, his investments, his bank, his group social pages, his websites, et al. He had secured his computer and password protected all his personal information. They had even gone as far as asking several people if it was possible to hack his computer but to no avail. It takes years to resolve if one is lucky, unlike the real world.
My brother didn't make a Will or anything that suggested his wishes should the unthinkable happen. Last year, he was having trouble storing files and suggested he find a web server where he can store his information. I am sure he did so, but there is no way I will ever be able to find this out. He left no information on his computer as to where this web server is located. And as for his passwords that will allow one to access his information, I can also forget this. I also made suggestions to him about how to use more secure passwords.
When I returned to the U.S. after my brother died, the first thing my husband and I did was to make our Will. And we did this online so that the executors will be able to contact the online law firm and have access to our Living Will. In the Living Will we have stipulated what we want done with our virtual life. We have also included where our passwords can be found in hard copy and its location.
Lawyers should take note. Do they ever ask their clients what they want done with their virtual life? I doubt it. I would suggest to anyone to make a Will and a Living Will when you are relatively young. Then you can get on with your life. As for those of us who have reached middle age, if you haven't already done so, do so. Don't leave this up to your family to deal with. It will break their hearts.
Thank you again, Ben. My family has no words that truly express how we feel.
- Stephanie Bemister
PREVIOUSLY: Facebook Won't Let You Remove Dead Relative's Page, Per "Policy"
Post a comment
Comments:
I have to say, I'm definitely glad this got taken care of, but I'm truly getting sick of these companies only taking action when hit with national negative exposure.
@plyhard13: To be fair, it's not likely to get much exposure if they respond obligingly to a simple request. Our perceptions end up skewed because we hear almost exclusively about the escalations.
It's almost as if Facebook is doing absolutely everything in its power to tarnish its image, what with the new TOS and then this...what the hell are they thinking?
Its becoming more and more clear that The Consumerist is a one man (one site) facebook wrecking ball. Keep up the good work!
So all I have to do to get somebody's account closed is tell Facebook they're deceased and claim to be next of kin?
Seems like an opportunity for abuse. Perhaps social networking sites should have a designated contact who can make changes in circumstances like these.
I think Stephanie highlighted the important point of recoding this information in your will. Make sure your executor has access to the information (passwords, etc.) to be able to ensure your will is done.
I actually don't like this. Anyone who was close enough to her brother would have access to his computer and ...
*drum roll*....
Be able to retrieve his password. I don't want any relatives of mine claiming to know whats best for me. If they have access they will do the right thing. If they don't they don't.
Also he may prefer immortality.
So apparently to get Facebook to do anything you have to publicly shame them.
@Randy Treibel: Let us blame the victim whose brother lives in another country. Surely she knows all his passwords!
I guess when the Schnitt hit the fan, they did the right thing.
Very good advise as far as handling info on computers when someone passes.
"Do they ever ask their clients what they want done with their virtual life? I doubt it."
OF COURSE I DO.
I give them a pamphlet listing all the things their executors/relatives are going to want to be able to find that you DON'T or might not put in the will (like the location of a deed, or which bank branch your safe deposit box is at), and I always always always include online account access. (And a suggestion that they say, like, "Please e-mail my entire contacts list on my g-mail account to let them know I've died" or "my friends list" or whatever, since notifications will often need to go out that way as well.)
Estate lawyers who AREN'T doing this already need to seriously rethink. (They're often from the older generation, that's why, and mostly serve older people who have much smaller online lives.)
Doesn't Facebooks new Terms of Service mean they can use Stephanie's brother's non-private pictures or information any way they want to?
Wow, it's not common that I get teary eyed reading consumerist (well, ok sad tears, not depressed tears about my mortgage). Way to go Ben, you done good.
href="#c10894614">Randy Treibel: he's already achieved immortality. you don't need facebook to achieve that. your comment kind of makes me wonder if you work for facebook. btw, any site with a password will recommend you don't share it with anyone for security purposes.
@Randy Treibel: Dude, I don't share my passwords with my *husband*, and I certainly don't store them on my machine.
Facebook: "All your epitaph are belong to us."
Why the f--- would anyone want their profile deleted after they die? "Oh, John died--let's delete every instance of his life, so it's like he never existed to begin with!"
Stupidstupidstupid.
@Stephanie Haller: That's easy enough to spoof and email/fax.
I say we get a contest going to see who can close another persons account first. Winner gets a gift certificate or something. Why not have a little fun with it? ;-)
"Do they ever ask their clients what they want done with their virtual life? I doubt it."
lolwhut?
How can I make sure one of my stupid relatives doesn't do the same thing to my account?
Hasn't the supply of Nazis to hunt dwindled down to about zero?
@f3rg: So people couldn't go talking to him not knowing he was dead.@MooseOfReason: Didn't they do away with the new TOS after backlash from the community?
I love all the people (including Facebook) who said "Well, we don't KNOW what he would have wanted! What if he would have wanted to keep the page up!"
I guess they don't realize that decisions like that are up to the family and/or spouse if they cannot be discerned from the deceased. Nah, it's better to just speculate.
@Eyebrows McGee: My lawyer asks about this during our annual review. I have a living will due to health issues and virtual "stuff" is on the list of things we discuss. My attorney is older but he does keep up.
Huh? I love my family, but that doesn't extend to sharing my passwords with them. I'd say me and my husband are pretty "close", but we don't have each others' passwords. Why you'd think this is in some way telling about their relationship, I have no idea.
@batsy:
I love that, and I love how some commenters are acting as if a Facebook page is some wonderful thing of great personal and sentimental worth. I'd like to think that my loved ones would have something better to remember me by than that.
I didn't comment on the original story, but was stunned that Facebook would respond in the way they did, banging on about their "policy".
Glad FB has done the right thing here. I think they need to tell their employees to handle requests like this a bit more sensitively, though. Fine, if they want such requests to come from next of kin, they should respond explaining this, rather than quoting some "policy" that they think should overrule the family's wishes. Facebook, you're just a bloody social networking website, why should the close family of a deceased person, next of kin or not, give two shits about your "memorializing" policy. This is the last thing they should have to be dealing with.
@floraposte: It shouldn't get any exposure when they take care of a simple request. That's called normal business.
@Randy Treibel: Dude, passwords are like underwear. You don't just share them.
...unless you're into that. To that, I say your kink is not my kink (but your kink is okay, too).
@strathmeyer: Uh, you ask them not to. Words mean things: it is your will that they not hose up your online accounts, and you codify that shit in your will.
@MsAnthropy: While they absolutely should have stated the policy correctly -- even given the boneheaded assumption that because Stephanie could not have been the next of kin because her name was different, they should have given her the full picture. Any family member might reasonably start the conversation about what do with the decedent's online presence, and there's no compelling reason why sites shouldn't tell them what they will need to do once a decision is reached.
That said, I sort of understand Facebook's default policy. While Facebook is better suited to timewasting than journaling, I can see how someone might, with persistence, fortitude, and an almost enviable ignorance of superior options, use it as a journal or other major online presence. I occasionally go back and read journal entries and emails from friends who have died, and I would not want my online journal deleted if I died.
@kexline:
I can see where you're coming from with that. Maybe something as simple as a profile setting where the user can decide whether they wish to be "memorialized" in the event of their death (morbid though that may seem when signing up to join the site!) could be a plan?
Agreed on what you say about the way Facebook explains the policy, too. If Facebook actually has a policy on such things, that policy should include a provision that, if somebody gets in touch saying "I am a relative of XXX and want YYY to happen, because they have died", they're told "we're very sorry for your loss - please have XXX's next of kin get in touch with us when they are able to", or similar.
It seems to me that "Next of kin" has little bearing on things like this unless you happen to be the next-of-kin to a minor child, making you their parent.
Next-of-kin do not automatically have executor rights and privileges, even if the deceased left no will. The court should have appointed an executor, who then should have notified FB with a copy of their letter of authorization from the court as well as a DC.
Both times when my parents died, I needed both documents to do anything in their name. It's not unreasonable for FB, Yahoo, or any other similar site to have the same requirement.
@Randy Treibel: Ubuntu is my OS & my boot-up log-on password is unretrievable.
When she kept seeing her brother's picture on her friends list, she could have unfriended him to save herself this grief.
Of course, unfriending him could have been too traumatic for her. In that case, she should feel extremely lucky to not live in the Gaza strip or another place where missiles & car bombs kill people every day.
We Westerners are pansies.
@batsy: I think (heh - I really do, I swear) people should get off this *I need to be immortal* schtick.
THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE CHILDREN!
Haven't you seen the Lion King?
@f3rg: Srsly?
Believe me - there is a 99% chance that in 99 years no one is going to give a damn whether you existed or not. Your *memorial* will be to someone who may as well never developed a virtual life.
Way to clutter server- & cyber-space!
I despise Facebook and written a number of articles about them in the past but in this instance, as sad as I am for Ms Bemister's loss, I don't think she had any right to remove the page.
If Facebook had removed any contact information - which it sounds like they did - and it was marked as a memorial page, then obviously nobody would have been able to 'incessantly call'.
I don't like the thought that any relative could remove something he may well have wanted to remain. As she stated, he left no determinations of what do do in the event of his death. Often these pages are where people go to pay their respects. I think Facebook should have allowed her access to view the site and leave a message but not remove it.
I love my brothers dearly but would not want them to remove my presence from the internet unless I specifically gave them permission to. When you sign on to the network it is specified in the Terms and conditions, which this gentleman agreed to.
That said, I sincerely feel her loss and hope this gives her some closure if this is how she felt she needed to do it.
@1stMarDiv: More and more, Facebook sounds like a company I wouldn't want to do business with. And I haven't. And I probably won't. Ever.
@William Brian MacLean:
In the original story, she said her brother had just told her he would add her as a friend and then his tragic death occurred before he had the chance. Her daughters were on his friends list but she was not. It was upsetting for her daughters to see him on their friends list. I don't think that a memorialized page is a horrible thing, but the next of kin should have the option available to close the account if they want to (provided the deceased hasn't left instruction in his will to have his page stay up and I wonder how many people really think about that!)
As always, Brother Ben comes through. Glad to hear this got resolved.
@William Brian MacLean: It would also mean others could leave whatever comments they wanted without any kind of oversight.
It was better to have it removed if his family wished it.
I was just thinking that even if you don't have a will or a lawyer, that you should find some way for someone to access this stuff in the event of your death. Any suggestions?
All things considered I am very glad to hear that Facebook "memorializes" accounts. I tried very hard to convince an ISP that they should do this to my father's Web pages when he died and they would not do it. This really seems to be a simple misunderstanding that was easily resolved one everyone understood who was who and what was going on.
@HogwartsAlum: There's a bunch of stuff that DOESN'T go in the will (funeral instructions, etc.); typically you put that all together in a manila envelope and give it to a trustworthy friend or family member, or put it in your firesafe and let that person know how to access it, or whatever.
It can be a very comprehensive list, or it can be just a letter saying, "Here's where I keep important financial paperwork, here's where I keep my online passwords, here's where you can find my spare car keys" and let them go dig in your file cabinet themselves to find your account numbers and so forth.
Of course this should be done with common sense and with security in mind, and with your time in life in mind. When you're older, you probably do want to do this formally as part of your comprehensive death planning. When you're young and healthy, you may just show your brother when he comes to visit, so he'd know, just in case. If you have kids, your focus should be on what your executor would need to be able to find quickly to ensure your kids are cared for (medical records, school records, etc.) -- and, yes, executor, because if you have kids, you really need to have a will!
For us, since we're married, we're each other's backstops, and then my family is generally aware of where we file all the important stuff (and, having learned from my parents, it's pretty similar to their system, and my sibs mostly use a pretty similar system as well). When Mini-McGee arrives in the spring, we'll be executing new wills and formalizing the system a bit more.
I feel as though that part of the memorialization process should be to open the profile up, rather than to close it up. I lost a friend of mine last year, and in all the time he was alive, I never thought to friend him on Facebook...we were too busy being "actual" friends I guess. Now, occasionally, I find myself just wanting to go on just to see him again if only for a minute. And as it stands, there is no way for me to do that.
I always kind of wondered what happened to a facebook page when someone died. I figured it would just eventually starve to death then rot in the corner of the facebook offices.
@William Brian MacLean: What's with the need to be "immortal" anyway? I think after I'm dead I won't give a flying fork about anything anymore.
Of course they did. What did Facebook think was going to happen?