How The "Velveteen Rabbit" Company Is Bypassing The Do Not Call List
We were wondering how Feature Films For Families, the company that's randomly calling home lines and cellphones to sell a movie to people who are on the Do Not Call list, was able to get around federal and state telemarketing rules. It turns out they're hiding behind a non-profit, and non-profits are exempt from following the Do Not Call list. Something similar happened in 2006 between Feature Films For Families and a different non-profit named the Dove Foundation, and the state of Missouri fined them $70,000. It might be time for you to start filing complaints with your state Attorney General and the FTC.
I've been curious about this story since being tipped off to it on Wednesday. It combines two known evils on this planet—badly made children's movies and telemarketing—and yet the company behind it claims to be a morally upright, praise Jesus sort of place that you wouldn't expect to try to skirt morally unambiguous laws or tell lies.
When I first tried to talk to somebody at Feature Films For Families on Wednesday, I was routed to 801-284-7206 and told it was "the corporate office." There a woman named Vicki cut me off as I explained why I was calling and asked, "How did you get this number?" Vicki told me I'd have to speak to Russel, and she transferred me to Russel D. Harris. Russel put me on hold, then came back and said he would only answer questions via email, and said his email address was russeldharris@lawyer.com, which I'm pretty sure is a fake email address. I sent an email to that address anyway and have yet to hear back.
This morning, a reader tipped us off to the Dove settlement from 2006. In March of that year, the Missouri Attorney General obtained a restraining order against the two organizations for trying to evade the Do Not Call rules:
The temporary restraining order is part of a lawsuit alleging that Feature Films For Families Inc. of Murray, Utah, and the Dove Foundation of Grand Rapid, Mich., conspired in a scheme to evade state No Call laws. Telemarketers from the Dove Foundation claimed its status as a charitable organization provided them with an exemption to the Missouri No Call law. In reality, the Dove Foundation was using that status to solicit sales for Feature Films For Families, a for-profit organization that sells DVDs and videos. The Attorney General's No Call unit received almost 300 complaints about the calls.
In August of that year, Feature Films For Families and the Dove Foundation agreed to a $70,000 settlement:
According to the agreement, the Dove Foundation and Feature Films For Families must pay $70,000 to the state Merchandising Practices Revolving Fund and obey all merchandising practices and No Call laws in the future. The respondents must also provide the Attorney General's Office with a detailed plan of practices and procedures they will implement in their businesses to ensure compliance with the state No Call law. They have also agreed to subscribe to, and remain current with, the Missouri No Call database.
Any future violation of the agreement by the respondents could result in contempt of court proceedings and civil penalties of up to $2,000 per violation.
I called the corporate number of Feature Films For Families again this morning and asked started asking questions. A woman named Holly, who said she was a manager at the call center, explained it to me this way:
- Feature Films For Family is a for profit company and is only calling the numbers of people who are existing customers (which is allowed)
- Kids First (aka Kids First Cares) is a non-profit company and is randomly calling everyone else—but since they're not collecting any money for the film, it's okay, see?
So that's the secret—get a non-profit to make your sales pitch for you and you can call any damned person you want, la la la, nobody can stop you. Well, unless you anger an Attorney General somewhere because you're obviously trying to break the rules against telemarketing.
By the way, I asked Holly how people can get put on the Kids First internal Do Not Call list, and she said they can call the number I called—801-284-7206—and tell whoever answers.
Or, if you feel that Feature Films For Families and Kids First are breaking FTC rules, you can file a complaint. Be sure to check out your state's Attorney General website to make a state complaint as well.
"Company selling films used non-profit organization as front to try to circumvent state No Call law, Nixon says" [Missouri Attorney General] (Thanks to Bruce!)
"Company selling films will pay $70,000 over No Call complaints in agreement obtained by Nixon" [Missouri Attorney General]
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Comments:
One minor clarification - companies can call "existing customers", although there are some time frames associated with that, but if you've told that company not to call, then that trumps everything. See also, my current fight with Hilton Grand Vacations.
This is extremely funny to me. Feature Films for Families has a call center in the apartment complex I lived at when I was in college. I also have a friend that worked for them briefly editing trailers together for their films. Imagine having to watch all of their films and try to find something in them to make them look like they're worth watching.
I've been in bed today, trying to sleep off the plague or whatever I managed to have caught, and these fuckers woke me up with their shenanigans. The telemarketer was very pushy and went right ahead with his spiel even after I tried to stop him with "I'm sleeping" and "How did you get this number?". It was so steamroller it was almost like it was a robocall--very weird.
Soon as he said Velveteen Rabbit, though, I remembered the earlier post and just rolled over and went back to sleep. I don't even think I said bye, though I can't rightly recall. Ah, NyQuil. :)
(801) 284-7206 belongs to:
Bezzant Nathan
925 West 200 North
Logan, UT 84321
Alternate phone: (435) 787-8412
Why do companies like this use such obvious and obnoxious techniques when we live in the communications era? It can't possibly be worth the lawsuits later...
Wow, is "Samsunshine" a real name? Is his brother "Bobrainbow"?
So what would happen if this was turned on them and people started spamming their incoming phone lines with say oh a fax machine set on redial? Just saying.
Just as I was reading this story I had my first pushy door to door salesperson bang on the door. They got really pushy and lippy after I told them I wasn't interested. I need to buy a baseball bat and a long range squirtgun or something.
I had no idea that non-profits are exempt from the DNC list. The NFL is a non-profit, for Pete's sake...what's the point? The scam that Feature Films is running is the reason why non-profits shouldn't be exempt.
May also want to contact Kids First's sponsors (as listed on their site) and explain how they are fronting a profit organization with their non-profit. Keeping non-profit status can be increasingly difficult these days.
There really needs to be better distinction between not-for-profit companies and charities because many people use the terms interchangeably. I think the spirit of the exemption in the law to allow only charities to solicit donations. Not-for-profits are frequently just fronts, holding companies etc.
I got a call from these @$$holes today, and it's not the only blind call that I've gotten on my cellie. How can these folks afford to blind-dial every phone number there is? Or even a significant fraction thereof?
Or you could just dump your land line and only use your cell phone. I used to get 4-5 solicitor calls every week (as well as 3 or 4 calls a day for the previous owners of my phone number) on my land line. I finally got fed up and canceled it. Voila! No more solicitor calls!
@sir_eccles: political calls are exempt for a reason. If politicians can't run polls to figure out what lazyass voters want, then don't complain when they vote counter to your interest.
@Underpants Gnome: Yesss. I knew someone else would post about that. Such an awesome name. And quite possibly fake. But that's going on my list of "favorite fake names evar."
I never got any poll calls. All I ever got were propaganda-laden, mud-smearing robocalls.
They should not be exempt.
@AngrySicilian: here in California they don't listen to the voters anyway, so at least here your point is moot.
Same. I got telemarketing calls on my cellphone until I tossed it on the DNC registry.
They will find you, no matter where you go.
I got a call from these giving-Christians-a-bad-name wackos about a week ago.
I live in Texas, and I asked, on a whim, where that "Theater near me" might be... it was in Oklahoma, over 100 miles away. They don't even pretend to care, it's just all about the money.
But, when I just tried to submit a complaint at the DNC registry site, the site was having technical difficulties.... D:
@Wombatish: Correct. Also, there's a 3 month window if you just make an inquiry to the company. The relevant information is item #31 at this ftc page.
@AngrySicilian: Me too, I've been getting those stupid ass "Warranty" robocalls almost every damned day.
@bohemian: Supersoaker has some powerful long-range models. The only disadvantage is they have to be pumped up before you can use them, so there's a little delay before you can squirt someone.
FFFF is a horrible outfit. My wife had a job there years ago and was let go because she was "too happy". You see, they were trying to make sales by capitalizing off of the Columbine School shooting and she was just not just not selling it enough for them.
I am grateful that she was only there for a few weeks. She now has a great job in customer service where her happiness is appreciated.
@bohemian: I had a door to door sales team come one time selling the window cleaner stuff. My dog ran out and peed on their bag before I could stop him. The great thing was, the salesmen were so into their sale they didn't even notice.
This is annoying for sure, but it is not nearly as outrageous as the exemption for political calls.
@redskull: I've gotten calls on my cell phone from telemarketers! I can tell they are telemarketers because the caller ID number has too few or too many digits to be a legitimate number. Sure enough, if you try to call back you get a recording that the number is disconnected or something (probably their own recording). It's exasperating.
I got a poll call on an unlisted phone in a conference room at work. I stopped the meeting, took the call, and played along for as long as I could. We all started laughing uncontrollably. She got all pissed off and hung up. Same thing happened with an elevator phone once.
I actually got an acknowledgment letter just this afternoon from the FCC regarding the complaint I filed about this stupid call.
And as for "existing customers"--maybe they're a subsidiary or something? As I explained to the guy who called my cell phone in the middle of the day about this film, I'm 29 years old and live in a one-bedroom apartment with two pieces of furniture. I'm not seeing any damned "family movie".
Wow, these movies look like they are a few notches lower than Hallmark films.
@Underpants Gnome: "This is Samsunshine speaking, how can I help you on this fine day? I see. Well, I'll just transfer you to Mr. Giggles Von Humperdink, and he'll talk to you, have a shiny day!"
@redskull: Either way, you still get solicitor calls. I got Robocalls asking about a "Warranty" over a car. Plus, mine and my parent cellphones can tell if its a telemarketer due to their area codes. We mainly get calls from Nebraska and sometimes, Tennessee.
I used receive calls from the Dove foundation every other day and if I tried to tell them to stop calling me, the lady on the other end would say something like "I will just call back a better time" and hang up. I did some research at that time and found out that the voice was actually a computerized response to common questions. Apparently some guy at a computer would manage several calls at once with the push of a button (similar to how DJ's did the old "Arnold Schwartzenegar calls a chinese resaraunt gags". From then on I would try and carry on a conversation with the "lady" and I could get all sorts of funny answers that made no sense. So next time they call you, just start asking them weird questions and see what you get.
We used to have a company around that would call you and ask you some survey questions, because polling is an allowed exemption from the Do Not Call list. A few weeks later they'd call you back telling you you'd won a drawing since you filled out the survey, and you've now ... a new security system!!! You only have to pay for monitoring. Another time they said I'd won half-off on siding for my house.
@Cafezinha: You stayed on the line long enough to say "I'm sleeping" and "How did you get this number?"
Wow.
@redskull:
Now you can look forward to lots of junk SMS (text messages)! If you're like me and don't want to pay extra for a plan (because you don't use SMS), you can look forward to paying the cell phone company .2 dollars for each junk SMS you receive (or if you're with verizon, the rate is also simultaneously .2 cents, because "they're the same if you look at it on paper-wise").
When I get any telemarketing call, if the first two words I hear are "I represent..." I'm not on long enough to hear the third word.
@bohemian: I remember hearing someone on the Consumerist (I think.) saying that they should get a fake video camera and answer the door saying "Less talk. More gyration."
"DO NOT CALL" Which part do you not understand?
@redskull: the point is that we shouldn't have to alter our behavior (ie drop a landline) because some shady business is disregarding the do no call list
@larrymac808: One solution to this problem is to make less money :)
One time I got a telemarketer call (before the DNC days). I played along to waste their time, and one question I got was "What is your annual salary?" I don't mind telling people what I make, so I told her. Immediately she said, "Thanks for your time" and hung up. It was awesome.
When you have less money, companies don't target you!
@Underpants Gnome: when you see it, you'l..
he is real and here is his website. samsunshine 'net man' levy
[www.samsunshine.com]
Really? These guys are just ... -shakes head-
I'm lucky so far --- no issues on my phone, but I guess I shouldn't say that too loud. :p
@Plates: Nope. A few years ago I had Mormons at my door. They absolutely refused to leave even though two large dogs were going berserk in the back yard. I explained that the dogs have dug underneath the gate before and if they get into the front yard and find anyone there they will rip the trespassers apart, and they insisted it would be worth it if they could just talk to me.
That's a special kind of scary.
There is a reason I'm on the Do Not Call List, the clue is in its name. I don't care if you are exempt and that goes double for politicians.