I like how everyone uses PayPal and 'requires' it on their auctions. One way is to USE CHECKS AND MONEY ORDERS. This way, there isn't an intermediary holding your money hostage.

This is why buyer feedback ratings are just as important as seller ratings.

Bummer.

This is the reason why I'm afraid to use Ebay.

@mad3air: Right, but then there is almost no buyer protection, correct?

Did he ship the computer to the guys address? or some other type of location? Seems to me that if the guy is using his address someone eventually is going to show up at his doorstep and open up a can of whoop-ass on him in lieu of getting their money back.

Sadly there's a bunch of problems with paypal policies, and IMO, them not doing anything just means those ebaysucks sites just become how-to guides.

On ebay I have 75 feedback out of roughly 100 transations over 9 years.

only one of my purchases has been since 2005.

there are too many scammers. the site isn't worth it anymore.

You could always try the simple way. you have the buyer's name and address, call up the police in his town, and file a theft complaint. I'd say either that or small claims court, but I think that having the police show up at his door might make him reconsider trying that scam again!

@rdm: The problem is that nothing right now solves the problem. Most practices favor one side or the other.

Is there a usable transaction escrow service? There job would be to ensure that items are shipped as described? (Obviously this is a big umbrella, but just a thought)

This happened to me selling a camera to a buyer in Canada. He claimed it was scratched and demanded a refund, and sent the package back, minus the camera. When the package arrived, I noticed it was too light, so I called the police to witness me opening the package. Sure enough, it was empty and I filed a police report for mail fraud. Paypal didn't like the police report (didn't have the correct letterhead???) and denied my claim. I just sucked it up and now refuse to use Paypal or Ebay. You would think selling to a buyer with a low feedback wouldn't be a problem, but I learned otherwise.

Contact the police department from where you live, and from the place where the computer was sent.

Depending on which state you or he are in, this is theft by fraud. Although it's unlikely that any federal agency will get involved, it is also a federal offense to use a common carrier (UPS) to facilitate a theft.

Next time, ship by US Mail. If the item was transported via US Mail, that's mail fraud.The Postal Inspection service has been helpful in the past in some cases like this, depending on where it happened, how busy they are, and whether there are multiple instances of similar fraudulent activity.

Scams like this are what frequent flier miles are for.

@mad3air:
Sadly, Ebay has stopped allowing anything but Paypal. Definitely not helping their cause.

I have over 1000 feedbacks and a lot from the past few years. Where are you people being scammed shopping from?

@UX4themasses: They actually had an escrow service years ago, but it was pretty crappy, and I think it died from lack of use.

@Kevin Carlyle: Ain't that the truth.

Scammers: this is why we can't have nice things.

@mad3air:

unfortunately, eBay has modified its acceptable payment policy in the last few months so that you can't accept checks or money orders anymore (except in a few catagories - mostly cars, industrial equipment, and pr0n). You have to take either paypal, have a merchant processing account, or use a few other electronic services that nobody uses, like moneybookers.

eBay acceptable payments policy is here.

@mad3air:
E-bay no longer allows checks/money orders. Although I guess they don't police it very well because I still see sellers saying they will take them.

This is why I don't sell anything worth over a $100 on eBay.

@youbastid:

not anymore. eBay has changed the feedback policy so sellers can only leave positive feedbacks - they can no longer give negatives or neutrals. Yet another change that eBay has made to screw over the small-time sellers who made the site cool in the first place.

The seller promptly replied to the buyer's notification of "destroyed in shipping" - and requested proof via pictures and the ability to intiate a UPS claim.

Since the buyer did not comply with these reasonable requests, when the computer arrived, I would have refused delivery.

YOU - as seller, did not authorize a return, and by Paypal providing instructions (send it back) that prevented you from filing a UPS claim, Paypal bears responsibility.

Is your Paypal linked to a checking account or credit card? If credit card, try disputing. I would also consider contacting your State Attorney General.

Does the ICC Interstate Commerce Commission also get involved in these disputes if the sale was across state lines?

One best way to avoid being scammed is really just avoid Ebay/Paypal all together.

It seems now that if a seller has less than a certain amount of ratings, Paypal holds the money until the buyer leaves a positive feedback.

@gtrgod01: That's what I was thinking. Plane ticket, baseball bat etc.

If a scammer gives PayPal a legitimate tracking number (from UPS or Fed-Ex, for example) Paypal will believe the scammer "shipped" you your item, even if you're sent an empty envelope. This happened to me once, and PayPal refused to investigate or do anything.

I sold the first computer I built on eBay for something like $130 bucks.. never got any feedback, don't even know if they got the damn thing. Never heard a word :(

@lawnmowerdeth: I still get buyers who contact me after the auction ends to send me a check, and I always accept, but eBay won't let me put in my auctions that I'll accept a check or money order. If I do they pull my auctions.

Ebay is run by an idiot, and as soon as there is a viable alternative, I will leave it forever.

Even though it looked as though Paypal probably had the poor guy buy the balls, I would have tried not to refund the money until I'd received the item back.

@gqcarrick: It just depends on what you're buying. Way back in the day my mom got ripped off by a non-shipper. It sucked.

@mad3air: Nice to see that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It is now eBay policy that sellers only offer PayPal or the option to pay by credit card (the seller has to set up a merchant account to do this) in their auctions.
It is a violation of eBay policy to put in your terms of service that you will accept cashier's checks, personal checks, and/or money orders and your auction can be pulled if you are reported.
Sellers can take money orders, etc. only if the buyer specifically asks them to. However, eBay has put into their policy that any seller that has too many transactions that utilize money orders, etc. will be suspended.
So please don't come here with your holier than though comment without being informed on the subject.

@youbastid: You can't leave a buyer negative feedback anymore. You can leave positive or nothing at all. eBay apparently wants to make it really easy for scams like this to happen.

I ebay for my friends and family ( take a 20% cut) I've sold hundreds of items I've almost made power seller several times.

The problem with Paypal is that there are issues on both ends of the coin. I've gotten screwed by USPS saying the item came to my house and I never got it. I should have said the item came broken apparently :P

As a seller I have had a few people try to scam me I refuse to ship to non Confirmed addresses. I have yet to be scammed and it work as a seller but who knows how long that will last :P.

The problem is, this is how real businesses work. At my real job we get bad checks and people who never pay their accounts. See the real problem with paypal is people are scumbags. Scams happen all the time at all retailers almost everyday.

I still think Paypal is much more secure than money orders, and in fact most scammers try to use checks/money orders all the time.

@Kevin Carlyle: Yeah, its either scammers or HUUUUUGE resellers. Some items, like dishes or what not are still pretty honest, but even then :-/

@mad3air:

You have to use Paypal for most transactions on Ebay now. I'm pretty sure it's required for computers.

@lawnmowerdeth: Well thats because they OWN paypal and eat up the fees!

@mad3air: Yes ... and then when you have a problem with the product or it doesn't get shipped to you, you have no recourse.

Wow, Thats a great idea.... JK! God that sucks. Good Luck

One way he could've protected himself is asked for pictures of the computer - with a notecard of the users name in it. This prevents them from using stock imagery.

Obviously, if they took postage insurance and what not, it isn't the sellers fault, is it?

@gqcarrick: I try to not buy or sell anything worth more than $75 through eBay. It sounds like most of these scams occur with electronics.

The old car community relies on eBay pretty heavily, a lot of my builds would be impossible without the sellers on eBay providing parts that aren't availible anywhere else. Craigslist is useless for parting out an old car in this method.

I've had very good luck buying and selling so far, but this kind of stuff keeps on happening, especially with electronics. eBay's new policies make this type of scam easier than ever, and the seller here can't even leave negative feedback for the scamming buyer.

eBay needs to see the light and kick their idiot CEO John Donahoe to the curb or they're going to wither away and die. I know as soon as there is a viable alternative to sell the items I sell, I'll be gone.

@ShikhaCadimillac: Next time, you might want to a) come across as less of an eBay/PayPal shill in your comment and b) take your own advice about sounding less holier-than-thou. Did it ever occur to you that there are people who would actually PREFER using checks/money orders for their eBay transactions? Sure, it takes a bit longer to get funds to a seller, but some folks don't feel comfortable sending money over the internet, where security is less than stellar at points.

A lot of people think a big part of the reason behind the PayPal requirement is the fact that PayPal is owned by eBay (at least partially), and eBay gets a cut of the transfer fees PayPal charges. So of course they're going to make it a requirement in their auctions, it's their little cas cow.

Seriously, eBay is so far from their roots anymore that it's barely even enjoyable to look for items. I've looked for hard-to-find DVDs that would have been fun to bid against other people for, only to find the sellers start them insanely high ($50-$100+) and expect people to bid or buy from there. Considering these aren't necessarily rare DVDs, so why the extreme markup?

@Oranges w/ Cheese: He said he asked for images and the guy just sent the computer back to him. So fail.

@squablow: I agree i love EBAY but the new rating system sucks for sellers. I can't warn other people of how horrible somebody is.

I feel bad that there aren't very many suggestions on how he could have avoided this scam. It is a problem that ebay has had for a very long time though. This is why I only buy little things that a scammer has very little reason to rip anybody off for. I've had several hundred transactions with paypal and ebay and fortunately have only been screwed two or three times. It is a system that generally works, but I would never deal in items costing more than $200 or anything like a camera or computer that is easily rendered worthless without showing it. It really is a buyer beware sort of world out there...

@Oranges w/ Cheese: He didn't buy a broken computer... He sold the computer to the scammer who then broke it and sent it back. He asked for pictures of the damage and the scammer wouldn't send any. I think he did almost everything he could have done here.

Perhaps he will list the removed items on ebay himself, then you could purchase them with a new account and reverse the roles. It's a shame things like this are happening. I'd just sell the components separately, if Chad's in IT im sure he got the PC for free or dirt cheap which is besides the point but might lessen the blow. Paypal should accept packages that you suspect have been tampered with to open themselves, the weight slips would be diffrent from shipping.

Here's a thought that just came to me... What if the seller were to refuse the shipment of the computer when it came back to him. He paid insurance on it and the buyer was trying to circumvent inspection. I think the seller would have been within his rights to refuse delivery of the computer and demand that Paypal require the buyer to submit to a UPS inspection of the computer before sending anything back. The fraud here is the buyer runs roughshod over the seller and doesn't give any time to think of options before sending the item back.

um, am i the only one who's thinking of this legally? the seller should call the police. this person STOLE from him. he has the information, the buyer's shippind address, i'd contact my local department or the department where the buyer lives, and ask for help. can you prove the pieces he took out belong in your computer? this could also help prove the pieces were stolen directly from your item. serial numbers, other info? why not get the law involved? or take him to small claims court? i'd do it just to get back at the buyer! maybe i'm just mean

Super-diligence? Common sense vs. ever changing rules and tricks. There's always a level of judgment involved. It adds a big intangible cost, which for me offsets any benefits.

The scum has really taken over the pool. I don't sell anything on ebay anymore, only buy, and much less than I used to. Similar stories with friends.

Our conversations usually circle back to how it isn't entirely eBay's fault. They've certainly played a big part with fees and policy, but ever since the 'net went public it's gradually descended into a breeding ground for what we call underwear-bandits, and eBay is just one of the more visible areas. Sort of a 1970s Madison Square Garden.

I'd love something like a pre-2000 eBay again, but it won't happen without verifiable internet ID, and that brings a different kind of baggage.

I sold a guy in Ecuador a pair of climbing shoes. He got the shoes and and left me positive feedback. 1 month later he was able to get his money back saying he didn't get the shoes.

I called PayPal and they said that even though he left positive feedback indicating he go the shoes, there wasn't delivery confirmation so he could claim them as not received.

Thanks PayPal!!!