Recommending a chargeback over a course packet is fairly weak advice here. Especially for such a flimsy claim... whether or not he got the wrong packet, he agreed to pay for that wrong packet and the store doesn't issue refunds. This is not the kind of things we should be requesting chargebacks over.

I always hated it when professors issued specialized texts that could only be purchased at a specific location.

I also always hate it when people initiate chargebacks for purchasing the wrong item in the first place. I don't think it's Abel's responsibility to know who a student's professors are, especially being an off-campus (and thus probably unaffiliated with the university) business. They seemed accommodating by allowing David to exchange packets after discovering the packet he ordered wasn't the correct one.

Carey, i really wish you would write during the work week. EVERY article that you have posted this weekend has caught my attention and has been fun to read, as usual.

I would tell them that I'm speaking with the professor in charge of planning the course about the issue.

The professors who are in charge of planning the course hold a lot of weight at these places because they decide where it gets printed.

They wouldn't like the idea of their future business being jeopardized ... and even if they still don't budge after the namedropping, maybe a call from the professor in question can change their mind.

I would make sure that the instructor knows what happens - don't pester them to help but if you tell them you wanted to make them aware, I bet they'll offer to help.

Obviously you don't want to drive the teacher nuts with details but I suspect they don't want to be giving all their course pak business to some store that is being difficult.

We have several family members and close friends who are tenured college professors and they would want to know, especially in this economy if their students were getting screwed over.

Yeah yeah, blame the kid. For heaven's sake would it have been TOO much to ask that they cancel the order? If YOU made a simple mistake (partially caused by an employee)...I KNOW. I KNOW. No one here makes mistakes, but humor me... wouldn't you want them to help you out? If you owned/managed this business wouldn't you have simply canceled the order and sold him the proper packet and then had a talk with your employee about giving advice in the first place? At that point they were out NOTHING and it would only have taken a few seconds to save him $25.

When a business like this goes out of business they have no one to blame but themselves for alienating their customers with petty, mean-spirited policies and poor attitudes. I'm really glad that I don't have to do business with anyone who'd think the bookstore has every right to stick it to the kid.

Our (unrelated business) is up 20% from last year, and we're hiring new employees, while a competing business across town is going under. Probably because our customers are important to us. We wouldn't be in business wihout them. And while having a "customer service attitude" means putting up with a small number of assholes, I'd rather create policy based upon the 97% of people who, when treated respectfully and fairly, respond with gratitude (and repeated business).

As a fellow UT student, I've heard similar things from Abel's Copies. Luckily I've never had the displeasure of purchasing from them.

My advice: If you have to go to Abel's, make sure its Cain and Abel's, the bar in West Campus. Even if they overcharge you, you'll be too drunk to care.

If all else fails, find someone who is taking the course and sell them the reader, although it might be too late to do so.

Am I hearing this right - they agreed to the exchange for a product of lesser value - but didn't refund the difference?
Shady.

@philmin: Well, though the story lacks this detail explicitly, it would seem like the store lied to the student (claiming that there is only one instructor for said course) in order to make the sale. Student agreed to pay for the wrong course packet, but only by means of fraud.

Unfortunately, advising David not to go back to Abel's might not be an option, as us University of Texas students don't really have a say in where our professors order our course packets from.

From my experience with Abel's, they find your course packet by instructor name. I've never been asked for anything else. They also make you double check that you are ordering the right course packet before you pay.

Also, he went to two classes and still didn't know his instructor's name? Sounds to me like someone either needs to A. stop sleeping during class, or B. look at the syllabus that the professor gave you. From one UT student to another... c'mon dude!

However, I do agree that this is a bad situation, and that they should give him a refund. ;)

It pisses me off that colleges even use course packets anymore. There's this invention called the computer that allows students to open and view the original document. What's wrong with just emailing out the course literature and allowing students to print as necessary. I took several engineering classes in grad school where the professor just emailed out his lecture notes at the end of each class. It worked great. I'm going to guess that it was some liberal arts course that didn't get the memo about email.

@supercereal: But Abel's told him who his professor WASN'T. You're right, it's not their responsibility but they chose to provide information... information that proved to be false. The also told him they didn't have the packet when apparently they DID have it. He wound up paying $25 EXTRA for the packet that he requested in the first place.

How does that make the OP responsible for the snafu this time?

@johnarlington:

I require students to get a reader for the following reason: if I email the reading, they never print it out. When they don't print it out, they don't underline, make notes in the margins, etc. And when they don't print it out, they don't bring it to class. And since in liberal arts courses we actually do some detailed textual work, it's quite a problem when students don't bring the reading to class. For some reason, when students own a reader, they bring it to class.

Unnecessary jab at liberal arts courses aside, another reason for a course packet is that it's a control on the number of copies that are made of copyrighted materials.

A professor can't legally email articles around any more than you can rip your CDs and email MP3 files to your friends - permission must be obtained. The only (legal) alternative to a course packet comprised of articles or chapters from multiples sources would be to require students to purchase the full text of all of those sources. Course packets save the student a ton of money and allow the professor to choose course content from a variety of sources.

That said, Abel's is in the wrong here, and this is exactly what chargebacks are for.

@philmin:

Agreed, because this was an in-person transaction. Chargeback would not work unless the bank just eats the charge, which teaches the merchant NOTHING.

@astrochimp: yes I agree. The student went with the first packet because he was misinformed. Once that happened, the store should at least be giving back the difference.

If I were the student, I would talk to his teacher and have his teacher recommend to all his future students to not shop there anymore. Hit them in the most painfull part of the body... back pocket butt wallet.

@brent_r:

I agree 100%. Back in my college days professors always raised hell when our local copy places dropped the ball with their course material.

@TCTH: People who are unauthorized to provide information often do so anyway, even if it turns out to be false (e.g. 90% of everything on the internet). If it's your money, it's your responsibility to verify it.

The point is he didn't request the right packet. From what I can gather, he didn't even know what he was requesting (not knowing the course details and all). You risk losing your money buying something when you don't even know what you need.

"They also told him they didn't have the packet when apparently they DID have it."

I'm going to hazard a guess on this one that they said they didn't have the correct packet because David flat out asked for the wrong one (again, he didn't know what he even needed). Since David agreed to purchase it, they assumed it was the correct packet. After checking his facts (which should have been done beforehand), then he asks for the right one...which they did have in stock.

It's not so simple to just say "never shop there again." Often, it's the only place that carries that particular course pack. The students usually don't have a choice where to buy.

Sadly, this is all too common treatment for college students. University employees and those who run businesses situated near a college very often treat students this way. Their first answer is always "no" or "why didn't you think of this?" They don't consider that so many of these students are still in the process of getting out from under Mom & Dad's protective watch. We "adults" seem to expect them to know everything immediately and treat them very poorly when they make mistakes, like being unprepared when showing up at the bookstore (or copy shop) to buy course materials.

I've been working in that environment for over 10 years and I hope I never get that way.

I would tell the prof and then start a campaign to get the student government to create a code of conduct for businesses that the professors and school use.

@johnarlington:

They can't just email readings if the work is still had copyright attached.

I'm not sure if this is the case for the OP, but in general the copyshops take the hard-copy material, apply for approval and pay the fees. If a prof was to simply email the work, it could possibly infringe on copyright.

This does not, of course, apply to lecture notes but not all readers are just notes.

@philmin: What's the deal, Philmin? The story makes it clear that the store provided the wrong information. The student provided the correct course number, and the store said there was only one packet for that course. (one instructor, here is his packet, we have to order it, pay now.)

Store's mistake, not customer's mistake. I understand no refund policies, but they shouldn't apply to wrong merchandise... and legally I'm not even sure they can. A purchase is a contract, after all.

@astrochimp:
I think it's more likely that they had inaccurate information and passed it along in good faith.

philmin is right that a chargeback is not warranted here unless the store fails to give him what he paid for. What's strange is that they apparently allowed him to use part of the amount he paid for the incorrect packet to pay for the correct packet. That leaves them with $25 of his money, which is not enough to buy the packet he ordered. If they aren't going to let him off the hook on the incorrect packet, I don't know why they would let him use part of that money to buy something else.

@Ronin-Democrat: Just because a store offers course books doesnt necessarily mean the school is working with them.

They could just as easily gather the data from the schools website themselves and put the book packs together with no influence from the school.

In fact if this school has a bookstore, its very likely they have NO connection to Abel, and Abel is just getting the course info and charging less than the school is.

@johnarlington: The professor (or more likely the university) owns the rights to those lecture notes. They don't own the rights to the course reading material. It's therefore not legal simply to copy and email that material. While some schools do have good online reserve programs that'll get material licensed for course use, not all do, and such programs can't ensure everything will be available anyway. (And, of course, it's still the student's job to acquire the material, whether it's digital or paper, not the professor's to distribute it.)

The rights issue is why such university-connected copy places tend to have draconian refund policies--there's nothing to stop people from using the stuff as a copy source for their own copies, after all. However, the shop is being absurd in this case, because the OP never actually received the incorrect material, so couldn't have used or reproduced it.

@Jim Topoleski: This was not a book, it was a course packet put together by the professor, so the school was working with them. At my college, professors often only sent their packets to off campus book stores after Barnes and Noble bought out the school book store and raised all the prices to save students money. Often they only sent it to 1 off campus bookstore though, thus leaving us with a problem if that store tried to screw us over.

@lauy: Not true. Regardless of whether or not the bank eats the charge the merchant still gets ding'ed for the chargeback fee, which will certainly raise some eyebrows.

@philmin: @philmin: I don't know about you, but $25 is a lot of grocery money to a college student. I would be upset if a store gave me the wrong information and I went back an hour later to rectify it and they refused to give me ramen money.

@MarcusCadpat: Folks, just a gentle reminder to avoid slamming the victim. Constructive advice is OK, and polite discussion about the company's rightness or wrongness is OK. Accusations of sleeping in class are, to me, a bit over the line.

Remember, we're not here to judge the consumer or to discourage them from seeking help.

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@johnarlington: One of my sociology professors teaches her classes in tandem with the latest research articles; that is, she updates each class yearly (she teaches different classes each quarter). These research articles don't necessarily make it onto JSTOR or one of the databases the UC is associated with in time for the course; the recent budget issues means that we lost access last year to a number of article databases. Thus, not all articles are accessible online; combine this with the fact that a majority of the undergraduates here can't figure out how to access an article on the databases and you've got a problem with digital access (funny considering UCs are research-oriented).

The path that most professors take is to go to the bookstore and have them license the articles and bind it all into a course reader, which is then sold at the bookstore. However, my professor went with a publisher in Long Beach (I'm in Irvine) who charges much less than the bookstore does for what is essentially the same thing. A course outline is included with it. My professor fully advocates buying a reader and splitting it with someone (something my girlfriend and I have done for a class this quarter).

@supercereal: If you're a business making representations to your customers, it's your responsibility to verify them.

When you find yourself having to invent facts to justify blaming the OP, it's time to troll on a different thread, friend.

@ouiserboudreaux: I second this. If the copy place screwed up an order, the instructor should be able to get it straight or require the Univ's lawyers to get involved to change that "No Refund" policy.

@brent_r: I TA'ed in college, and one of my responsibilities was setting up these copy stores. They depend on the professors for an ez way to make some money. The Prof should be informed, they will want to know.

He should ask the store, if they will refund him the difference if they can sell the un-needed copies that he initiated.

@MarcusCadpat: Two classes could be less than one week or one week. Five classes, maybe one extra lab... it can take a bit of time to get instructor's names down in general if you aren't one of those people who remembers names super quickly.

@mythago: Invent facts? This is a private business unaffiliated with the university. As such, what representations do they owe to a student? They don't need to track what professors go with what class. It's not their responsibility to make sure you know what course you're taking. They're under no obligation to tell you what you need.

I just don't think it's that difficult to comprehend something along the lines of "We're not in the business of reading minds, so here is what we think you want, but verify that this is, in fact, what you need before purchasing it." Unless you can clearly communicate what exactly you're looking for, don't be surprised if you end up with something unexpected.

@carlogesualdo: That's very insightful and thank goodness for folks like you. I think people forget college students are often on their own for the first time in their lives or in a new city, state or country.

I worked for the owner of this place about 10 years ago. Worst human being I ever met. Discriminated against employees, cursed out customers to the point of tears, intentionally lied to fire inspectors, and abused everyone who worked there. And he peed in his office trashcan, because his time was too valuable to walk to the bathroom down the hall. I was offered the job of manager at Able's, and turning it down stands as one of the better career choices I have made to date.

@ouiserboudreaux: I guess my main problem was that he could have pulled out his syllabus to check what his professors name was. Although Abel's should not have given him the wrong information about his class. I agree that he should get a refund because of that fact. (Despite their extremely rigid 'no refunds' policy.)

@brent_r: This is probably some of the best advise out there - I might not be stressing the whole, "I couldn't remember your name prof!" part so much. But I would stress that the copy store was making it very student-unfriendly.

I mean, that's 100 + packets of Ramen they're stealing from you!

@philmin: I have to disagree with this only because he relied on the expert advice of the clerk at the store to make his purchase. Had he grabbed it from a shelf, or told them the wrong name it would be different.

However when the merchant takes the extra step of providing advice, the customer may rely on that advice to be correct. Certainly it is good customer service to provide such advice and not simply tell the customer to find out on their own.

As an alternative example, if you ask at the auto parts store for an air filter for your car and they point you to a specific one, you may rely on that advice to be correct. If they pointed you to the wrong one they would be liable - and in most cases simply exchange it and apologize.

Should the student decide to bring an action against the printer he would most probably prevail as he relied on their expert advice which proved faulty.

The store should either stop offering advice, or provide a refund or exchange in this instance.

Whilst they may have a no refunds policy, in this case the expert advice created a warranty that the packet he was sold was indeed the correct packet. This warranty is enforceable through the Courts.

This is not legal advice if you need legal advice seek appropriate counsel.

@SumedhaBergeron: This seems remarkably libelous. Even if true it offers little to the discussion.

Sure there are lots of jerks in the world. But does posting this do anything more than expose you to liability?

@ouiserboudreaux: I take classes from professors all the time that don't put their names or contact info on the syllabus (because it's the standard syllabus for that course number, written by the department) and forget to introduce themselves to the class on the first day (and assume they've already done it, every subsequent class.)

I'm five weeks in and I still don't know the name of my calc professor. Jamie something, because he signs his emails "Jamie." Other than that, no idea.

Being out any chunk of money stinks (I should know because I had my bike stolen and had to pay $ 300 just to get my wheels again). With that said, I would've walked away to ascertain who my professor is to prevent something like that from happening. I know time is precious, but rushing on something increases the likelihood of mistakes.

@feckingmorons:

I disagree with your example. The copy shop doesn't know who your professor is. If you can't give the full information they need to locate the correct product, it's not their fault that they gave you the wrong item.

It's like going to an auto parts store saying you want an air filter for a make and model, but not knowing the year, and then blaming the store because it doesn't work with your car.

Maybe when he ordered the packet that wasn't in stock, they had already made the new copy by the time he reappeared to exchange it for the other one.

This is a shady store to begin with. I've heard other stories about this place. Make your own sign about unfair practices and stand outside the store legally and let them see you. Do this on a weekend or when you have time. Spread the word to other students about this store. Pass out small copied fllyers about this stores issues. Call your local attorney general and better business bureau and file a complaint. This store is defrauding its customers.

@ouiserboudreaux: I third this. I'm a professor and I have options about where to send copy packs, if any of my students are being ripped off I want to know about it.