Would you rather be a vulture or a dead beat? Hello, Mr. Vulture.

"Home sales up, but not really" says the headline. Did the house sell? Yes. Then housing sales are up. End of story. Whether the 'reporter' for the article likes who bought them or not, it is disingenuous to state otherwise

Wow, that's just great. Hey, somebody is trying to participate in a broken market! Let's call them vultures, obviously they're just in it to be evil!

Prices still need to come down to be supported by incomes. Buying a house to rent has also become a suckers game as unemployment, lower wages and more rental supply are now driving rents down. It will take a while for prices to stablize but then the US will be in a much better condition to move forward.

"Vultures?" Really?

Everyone with money is evil.

In other news, the participation of speculators is a probable sign of a bottom in housing. This is really good news, economically. It means there's finally starting to be a bit of light at the end of the tunnel in terms of marking down debt-backed assets.

@ADismalScience: Agreed.

Yes, the people buying the houses at low prices are the bad guys. Not the banks that screwed us all over in the the first place with their greedy loan programs.

I'm all for it though. The more of these houses that get off the market, means less houses for buyers, which means new buyers have to pay more for the existing homes on the market. So in the long run, this should help the housing market.

I'm confused.

I just bought a house that was one more payment cycle from going to foreclosure. I bought it for under what the seller owed on it. I kind of feel bad that I got such a great deal.

The house is in a desirable neighborhood that is great for families. I am moving my family into this home.

Am I a vulture?

Apparently I'm a vulture for recently buying a (1st)house.

Oh well. I've been called worse things by better people.

@Ben Popken:

Also agree. As mortgages approach rents, more people will buy. That is why I just bought a house. I vultured my way into a nice house that actually costs less the the apartment I was renting.

Smart shoppers, savers and first time home buyers will benefit.

@darkjedi26:

Don't forget more property tax income.

@TecmoTech:

Er, maybe not, I forgot, the banks might have been footing that bill as well. Not sure though.

If someone who buys a house at market price is a vulture -- and yes, a foreclosure is market price. What do you call the banks, brokers, developers, and property-flippers who built and sold the house on irrational terms with little or no care for the long-term financial health of the owner or community?

@TecmoTech:

First time home buyers are the absolute key, in my opinion. Student loans and credit card debt are now an incredible debt burden on most Americans before they ever work a day in their lives - the result will be further and further delay of the traditional home-purchase rite for the upcoming generation. My expectation is that this creates long-term downward pressure on the values of starter homes in particular, which were the favorite targets of speculators in the boom years. Flipping starter homes was a favorite practice during the boom, because the risks and float were lower for neophyte real-estate magnates.

If we start seeing first-timers getting involved on the heels of these speculators we can expect a full-blown recovery to begin in housing. Or, at the very least, an asset-class characteristic degree of price stability.

@darkjedi26: I think there's a bit of a "chicken/egg" situation where the shady mortgages enabled people to go and buy homes (sort of), but housing prices rose so quickly because consumers demanded houses, and were willing to compete for them.

Houses selling for less than owed on them just means that the market prices re-equilibrating. This corrective measure will only help the market.

@spoco: Nope, just a smart consumer. I built my house just before the market took an extremely sharp downturn so initially I was a little upset seeing the potential dollars I could've saved having waited another 6-9 months... But in the end my wife and I ended up with a livable 30 mortgage in a nice neighborhood on the edge of town.

I wish I had another $20-$30k laying around to grab a rental property.

"Vultures" are necessary for foreclosures and shortsales. Somebody has to buy the house. We can't blame somebody for buying a house for what it's actually worth, rather than paying the inflated -- and unaffordable -- cost of the owner who foreclosed.

@spoco: Well, some people might say you are more of a knife catcher, given that prices are certain to fall further. But, if you plan on staying in your home long term, the price will hopefully rebound eventually.

Personally, I'm renting for another few years. I don't think the market has gotten anywhere near bottom in my area.

@TecmoTech: Thanks Ben, glad to hear we are not the only ones in the market for a home. My husband and I have been carefully saving over the last few years, watching our credit, and looking at areas in which we want to buy. Now that we have the down payment and the pre-approved mortgage some folks are trying to make us feel guilty for looking at houses that are being sold becuase the current owners cannot afford them anymore. We are being told it is unfair to buy a house "below market value", so basically we are being called vultures - because we have chosen to carry no debt on credit cards, are careful with what and how we spend, and are now in a perfect position to buy. And congrats on the new home.

How are they "Vultures"? If someone got a loan on a 400k house and the house is only worth 250k but still has 350k owed, it would be impossible to sell that house for what is owed. People are not vultures for purchasing homes at market value.

Maybe banks should analyze house prices a little more to realize when values are inflated so they don't make the loans. Banks had all the data, only they can be blamed for the mess we are in. Had they restricted credit in the face of inflated home values, they actually would have helped prevented the inflation of home values. Instead they helped caused it, if not are the sole causes since everyone buying a home does need a loan through a bank.

@darkjedi26: Think some of the blame might belong to idiots buying houses they can't afford?

@Corporate_guy: Indeed, we are first time homebuyers looking for a house, and are running into way too may sellers who bought high and now want to sell high. I have a down payment, I have a preapproval, I am offering a very fair and competitive price....and these sellers won't budge. So my next step is to become a vulture, I guess, and wait for these sellers to go into foreclosure.

Sorry to the people who consider this to be vulture-like, but I'm actually trying to be responsible in what house I buy.

I think there is a difference between someone finally being able to afford a first home because of lower prices more in line with incomes and someone buying investment properties at distressed prices, which plenty of people were doing before the mortgage meltdown. People sell the videos on late night infomercials.

@nighttrain2007: THANK YOU!

I love NPR, but this story was embarrassing.

So then presumably people who buy stuff at estate sales are buzzards?

@gparlett: Marketplace is produced by American Public Media, not NPR.

@DrGirlfriend:

Awesome plan. You will definitely succeed. My wife had been lowballing for 2 years. We finally got an acceptance. I don't mind being called a vulture.

@zarex42: That too.

News flash: if the house will only sell for "super cheap" (what's that, only 5 times the median income for an area instead of 10 times?), then it's a super cheap house. How much longer are we supposed to keep calling tiny postwar brick ranches million-dollar houses just because some fool paid $1M for them back in 2004?

@Corporate_guy: I don't think buying a foreclosure is really market value. Most foreclosures don't reflect the actual market of the area.

There was a foreclosure across the street from me that sold for $85k. Most homes in my area are selling for about $170-180. I don't think that means that every house in the area should be priced in the 80k range.

I don't see my wife and I as vultures; the opportunity presented itself and we were positioned well enough financially to move forward on a heck of a deal. We already had a home, but we were quickly outgrowing it with the constant need for more space.

@ADismalScience: The bottom? I think not. There is still much more supply than demand in the Northeast, California, Florida for example. With people losing jobs left and right now, you ain't seen nothing yet. Dream on.

Why the slam of vultures? If it wasn't for vultures, there would be dead animals all over the DC area. We now have more vultures here than anytime in history. A vital and necessary bird.

@nighttrain2007: I agree with this completely. A more accurate (or less misleading) headline might read "Home sales are up, but housing profits/revenue are down."

@ADismalScience: While an increase in sales numbers is nothing to scoff at, don't forget that there's still a whole wave of ARM-resetting that hasn't happened yet. I'm afraid we haven't seen the worst.

@papahoth:

I don't know where you're getting your data, but the Northeastern housing market has been relatively strong given its maturity. California and Florida have pain left to suffer, but I'm speaking in a macro sense. It's easy to be negative in negative times, but nothing lasts forever and it will be long after the bottom is in that it is identified. Based on the data above, now is as good a time as any to start thinking in terms of recovery, especially given the relative severity of this recession when compared to recent recessions.

There's a house around the corner from my apartment that's on the market. Last weekend the realtor held an open house. I signed up for their e-newsletter while I was there. It was nice 3/1 with a small garden, but it needed some work. At the time, it was listed at $249k, which for downtown Orlando, FL, is a steal. I just got an email to say it has been reduced to $219k. 3-5 years ago, that house--in fixer-upper condition--could have easily fetched half a million or better. Cuh-rayzee.

If I had extra money I would look into buying a 2nd house and renting it out.

@csdiego: Edit: make that 10 and 20 times the median income. 5 and 10 doesn't really begin to capture the hilarity of housing prices during the bubble.

Call me a vulture if you must. Its not my fault my wife and I finally found a house that we like for a price thats right.

The fact is that many times the foreclosed home buyers were paying mortgage insurance along with their actual house payments. This assured that the banks ended up with their money no matter what. Since I couldn't afford a 20% down payment, I'm having to pay it, and its not cheap.

I would imagine that its the insurance companies that are taking the hit right now. (not that I'd ever feel sorry for an insurance company)

@KristinaBeana: Those people should stuff it. This IS the rare economic reward for doing what you're supposed to do -- being positioned to take advantage of a downturn. My brother is also home-shopping and he's waiting for a few more people to meet reality w/r/t how much the market's dropped and how much they need to drop their selling prices. It's stupid for people to tell you, "You did everything right, now you just have to wait until prices become unaffordable again!"

We are looking at whether now is a good time to buy a small rental property. Prices are depressed (though not crashed) locally and we have been careful with our money. I don't see why we shouldn't.

@nicemarmot617: No kidding. These are the people we need, to step up and buy some of these properties and I hope they make a profit too. Would it be better if they didn't buy the houses? Would it be better if the buyers were paying more than the original mortgage amount?

Best possible scenario getting skewed by poorly worded, possibly biased reporting.

@MichaelBrazell: exactly, better to have sold a house for less than it was bought for than to have a bank owned house sit unoccupied.

@darkjedi26:

If the foreclosure is the only house that sold in the area, and it's comparable to other houses in the area, then it is market value - because that's the market has determined a house is worth.

If the house is not comparable to other houses in the area - IE it's been vandalized or needs lots of work, and other houses are selling at a higher price, then it's not market value for the whole neighborhood.

@nighttrain2007: Depending on the medium, the publication, and the type of content (hard news/analysis/feature), playful headlines can be perfectly acceptable. This headline was totally appropriate for the content and medium, and I think most editors would agree with me in this case.

@darkjedi26:
Boo that sort of help. I WANT housing prices to come down. They're too high; it takes TWO full-time adult incomes (at average wage rates) to even consider buying a home worth raising a family in.

We're in the predicament we're in now PRECISELY because of the rise in housing prices. Mortgages grew exponentially over an 8-year period, while wages stagnated. Which means, less money in everyone's pocket. New families are getting screwed here, and that includes me.

It shouldn't be about buoying prices and getting them to rise; it should be about getting roofs over people's heads. If you're concerned that you're not going to make as much off the sale of your house, then you obviously erred when you put your money into it: a HOME IS NOT A COMMON STOCK, IT IS A PLACE TO LIVE.

@squablow: Did either of you RTFA?

@jsbeagle: I like how they make it sound like it's your insurance when really it's the bank's insurance in case you can't pay.

@squablow: "These are the people we need"

That's exactly what the article said.