here's lesson #1:

pro bono is NOT the name of an adult film star.

I don't really understand what I need to be doing here. Trying to make an account to get feedback on a store with a shady transaction. However, says I need to be approved and need to "audition" for ocmment writing purposes. How do I audition? Yes, perhaps this is buried somewhere in some obscure FAQ, but c'mon Consumerist, I'd think you'd be above that (if that's even the case). So, leaving this comment incase "audition" means "post a comment so we can see you're not a bot".

Wasn't he that singer?

Don't you guys know that Pro Bono is Sonny Bono's first cousin's nephew's uncle?

As a soon to be lawyer (my last semester starts in a week) I can say that some of those links are useful, especially the one's that list statutes and cases. However you should know that such information is free to the public anyways, just not in electronic format, you usually just need to go to a law library (located in a county court house) and ask to see the relevant books.

What I would be worried about is using the links for forms and doing a divorce yourself. The former because forms change constantly and to change anything on those forms you really need to know if the law allows it or if adding a type of clause is illegal i.e. including an "as is" clause in used automobile sales in Oklahoma is not allowed, such clauses are invalid.

You also need to be very wary about the latter as well because if it isn't a mutual divorce things can go sour really fast and make the court costs go up.

My experience doing things for myself:

Out of 3 tickets: 2 wins, 1 loss (a Pyrrhic victory for the gov't, took them almost 3 hours and a separate courtroom booking on a special day to extract $20 from me.)
Out of 1 (almost) court case: 1 win.
Out of representing 1 friend in court: 1 giant win.

From getting a lawyer to do things:

Out of 1 appeal to a denied disability insurance claim: ~10 months and STILL WAITING for the lawyer to open a court case. *sigh*
Out of opening 1 business: Lawyer didn't even provide books/minutes for the corporation, leading to exciting timewasters later on when dissolving it. We're lucky we never got audited during that time. *double-sigh*

If I had the above to do again by myself? Definitely skip the lawyer. Total waste of money.

There might be cases where you need a lawyer. I'd probably suggest they're things where $10k+ are on the line. And even then, I'd think twice. Put some effort into it and you'd be amazed how little you need a lawyer. Personally, I'd reserve a lawyer only for criminal cases in the future, or EXTREMELY expensive money matters.

@zeitgeist09: mail any stories or complaints to our tipline:

tips@consumerist.com

We can't answer emails personally, but that's your best chance at getting us to read and potentially post the story.

Also, have you tried the forum?

I don't think that I could recommend not getting a lawyer. Unless, of course, you are going to small claims, then no lawyers are allowed anyway.

That being said, many of the smaller firms have attorneys that will give you a free consult. That way, you know if you need the lawyer to begin with.

@ shepd: I would suggest that you might have had the wrong lawyer. Most of the attorneys that I know really try to get everything done. As for the disability thing, sometimes, these things can be resolved without going to Court. Do you really want to pay the filing fees and attorney fees involved in going to court to fight out something you didn't need to fight about in the first place? Or, if you are on a contingency fee, most likely, the fee is a lower amount if you don't go to court, and then gets higher as more time/pain is involved.

That being said, are you getting copies of everything that the lawyer sends out? If you are, you should be seeing something going on. If not, go to your lawyer and request to look at the file.

And of course, if the other side has a lawyer, you probably need one too.

@shepd: Traffic court and insurance tort are not even close to the same universe of law. Results are not comparable between the two.

A lawyer can be very good at helping you set reasonable goals in settlement negotiations, and of course at criminal trial.

@Parapraxis: Corollary: Pro Bono IS the name of an adult film star

@shepd: I won't speak to the insurance case, but the lawyer supposedly helping you set up your business doesn't seem to have been doing the job you expected him to. Perhaps those expectations should have been properly set at the time he or she was retained? Or perhaps he or she was just a crappy lawyer.

Definitely agree with you on traffic court though. I won both times I've contested a ticket. The first time the ticketing cop didn't bother to show up, so I didn't even have to walk into the courtroom. The second time was one of those photo radar vans and the ticket went to me because I owned the car (I'd lent it to a friend). After presenting my carefully prepared case to the magistrate, it was my receding hairline that got me off the hook! (my friend had a full head of hair)

Moral of the story is, if you have the time and the inclination, show up and contest your traffic tickets. More often than not you'll win, and it's fun extracting revenge on the city by tying up their traffic courts and cops.

I'll do ANYTHING to annoy a lawyer. Thanks Consumerist for helping make it easier!

@Parapraxis: Of course not! Weren't he that there mayor of Palm Springs, who used to be married to Cher?

For matters legal and medical the internet shouldn't be used for anything more than a "Third opinion".

@Flame: Actually, there are lawyers allowed in some small claims courts. It depends on the state.

My least favorite phone call is from people who tried to do a small claims case pro se and didn't like the result they got.

Why would you want to annoy your lawyer? They charge 100-400 an hour and round up.

I find that unless you find .gov sites with the laws on them or have accesses to the lexus nexus you're best bet is a lawyer.

I've argued things I've found on the net before to my wife and she's destroyed me with facts rather than stupid internet crap.

@Flame: "Unless, of course, you are going to small claims, then no lawyers are allowed anyway."

Varies by state.

@huadpe:

Very true. That being said, the friend was effectively being defended by me against assault charges and a possible 6 month jail sentence. He relied on me because in Canada you need something like 5 years of possible jailtime before the government will give you legal aid and he was flat broke. After my help, he ended up with an offer from the prosecution of a peace order: Commit no crimes for 1 year and we'll even remove the court case from your record. It was a good deal, so he took it, and now has a perfect record.

Insurance tort law might be more complicated, I don't know. For the amount owed (We figure about $4k) we'd just use small claims next time. The judges are friendly and help to resolve cases fairly. They also understand that most parties WON'T have lawyers, since the maximum lawyer's fee that can be billed if the judge decide the loser pays is $300 here.

For big matters (like criminal cases and cases big enough small claims doesn't make sense) I'd hire a lawyer. But after my experiences, for small stuff, forget about it. I'd do it myself.

@Corydon:

The corporate books/meeting minutes are required by law to setup a corporation in Canada. Since we paid him to setup a corporation (at a cost _above_ government fees of $1,000) we figured he'd understand we'd need the basics required by law. Sort of the way that when you buy a car, you don't normally ask for the title, it's a given you'll need it. :)

He was helpful about the issues, though, since he helped us modify the business and got us the books for another $300 or so, which wasn't too bad. But the idea we'd been operating illegally for so long was *not* comforting.

@huadpe: A good lawyer will do everything he can to keep you out of court and get things resolved through other forums.

As for your disability insurance claim - those cases have to go through several venues before you can even get them into court. Welcome to the world of administrative law. And if you really are worried your lawyer is not moving fast enough and will miss important deadlines, get an opinion from a second attorney.

If I may add a more localized resource, [www.bni-maryland.org] provides free tenant/landlord advice for properties in all of Maryland except for Montgomery Count.

@Darren W.: I should say, that there's lots of handy generalized info in the forms that you can download from their site, and if that doesn't answer your question, you can call their hotline for free phone counseling.

You very often can't make a diagnosis without a blood test or X-Ray or something like that.

My wife worked for a few lawyers and they ALWAYS waited until the last possible moment to file with the courts and ALWAYS padded their hours. It was laughable to see that, in thier case anyway, the only benefit that law school provides is the knowledge of how he game is played and the certificate of entry into the players section. I have had personal experience with great lawyers and I gladly pony up the cost for expediting certain matters that would otherwise take years for me to do on my own but I ALWAYS walk in the door with as much up front research about my issues as I can possibly obtain... and I ALWAYS negotiate a flat fee for services if it is at all possible. You would be surprised at the flexibility that is available.

@zacwax: A lot of people dig these up and then like to use them as support for their claim that the law says "X" and I'm like, "Dude, that hasn't been good law since 1962!" Just because you can FIND a case doesn't mean it's USEFUL.

(And seriously, if you're that into it, most community colleges have legal research classes for paralegals that for the cost of a semester of your time and a couple hundred bucks will teach you how to ACTUALLY find the law you're after.)

@Darren W.: Many states' legal aid offices provide some really great, state-specific information on the kinds of law most useful to the average consumer (landlord tenant, employment, living wills, etc.). They often have some DIY forms for the simple stuff and tell you what to expect and when to get a lawyer for the more complicated stuff.

"Moral of the story is, if you have the time and the inclination, show up and contest your traffic tickets. More often than not you'll win, and it's fun extracting revenge on the city by tying up their traffic courts and cops."

@Corydon: Of course the easier solution is to simply not break the law...

@Eyebrows McGee: That's true. Most of my experience is in Idaho, where there are no lawyers allowed in small claims. Guess I should have put in a disclaimer.

IMHO, a large percentage of the legal industry exists on obfuscation. Often the extensive use of pretentious, flowery language serves no purpose. What's even more galling is the obscene number of lawyers holding government offices. That's the fox guarding the damn hen house. Ship B people suck.

Oh, and one more thing about lawyers that I find irritating is that none of them want to talk to you unless they're getting paid. Got a friend who's a lawyer? Try asking him or her to look over something simple like a one-page Non-disclosure Agreement. They'll most likely say "You need to hire a lawyer." They must teach that sh*t on Day One of Law School. Like union members. "Sorry, I can't pick up that piece of paper because it's not in my contract." Oh, well, excuse me, your majesty. And people get bent out of shape when I say "No, I will NOT fix your computer."

@RogueWarrior65: That refusal to help is for your own good. For better or worse, there aren't any general practictioners anymore. Showing your non-disclosure agreement to a lawyer who wroks in immigration or criminal defense is like asking your neighborhood butcher to bake you a free pie. If the lawyer doesn't specialize in the exact type of agreements, etc. then they would probably have spend hours or even days to research the issues just to figure out what questions to ask you in order to make sure that Agreement is really what you want and that important language hasn't been ommitted. If they miss anything at all, they risk getting sued by you for malpractice - even if the advice was free. Next time, ask first if they know something about [x] and then see if they'd be willing give you 15 minutes of time for $25. There are lots of reasons to hate lawyers, but this ain't one of them.

@shepd: "Out of representing 1 friend in court"

Eesh, I don't know about Canada, but for our American friends, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. You can represent yourself in a court of law. You can hire a lawyer to represent you. But you can't represent somebody else unless you're a lawyer.

Insurance claims are definitely not to be tried at home, but your lawyer sure as hell should keep you informed of what's going on. You should know why nothing has happened in ten months. Please, please talk to your lawyer tomorrow and don't leave until you get a straight answer. I read the lawyer disciplinary reports every month, and they are filled with sad cases of people who lost their cases because their junkie lawyer didn't actually file their case when he was supposed to.

@RogueWarrior65: If you tell your friend "I can't fix your computer, your motherboard is melted" are they going to sue your ass for malpractice? Do you have IT person malpractice insurance to cover that situation? If you fuck up the computer repair are you going to lose your IT certification? Do your friends routinely ask you to fix their washing machines or their cars and then whine "But it has a COMPUUUTER in it, why can't you fix it?"

Unless the answer to all of those questions is "yes", you shouldn't be bitching that your friends won't do your NDAs for you for free.

Which is to say: your friends don't want to screw up your NDA. (I assume you don't want them to screw it up, either.) Unless they practice in an area of law where they are familiar with NDAs and keep up on recent developments in the relevant law, they aren't going to be giving you useful advice. If they give you stupid advice, you could a) sue them and b) get them in trouble with the state bar for giving legal advice they shouldn't have given.

If my husband wanted me to look over his software NDA, I'd tell him to go hire an IP lawyer.

@Eyebrows McGee: I once took a class in Public Land from a former BLM attorney. She said that you weren't really considered to be a *real* lawyer at the BLM until you'd been personally named as a defendant in some hand-scrawled complaint by a crazy Sagebrush Rebellion type, generally supporting a bunch of random claims with quotes taken out of context from everyone from the Constitution to local zoning laws.

@Wit: As the saying goes, you can pay me now, or pay me later.