Corporate Infighting To Keep Americans From Paying With Their Cellphones For The Next Few Years
Don't expect your cellphone to replace your credit card anytime soon. The New York Times reports that banks and telecoms still can't agree on the basics needed to develop such a payment system, even though similar systems have been available in Japan for the past five years.
For such payments to work here, cellphone manufacturers, carriers, financial institutions and retailers must all play roles. There also must be some sort of intermediary that is trusted by both the financial institutions and the carriers to activate the virtual credit cards inside the phone.
One problem is that anyone using a credit card inside a cellphone is simultaneously a customer of the financial institution and of the carrier. “At the end of the day, the question is, ‘Who pays whom and how much?’” Mr. Romen says. “The carriers and the banks need to get their act together on payment.” He adds that the back-and-forth is a necessary step in the creation of a complex system.
The well-credentialed skeptic interviewed by the Times seems convinced that putting your credit information on a cellphone presents only a "small" risk. We've heard all the wireless security jazz before and then watched as hackers stole credit information with $8 worth of equipment.
Researchers and industry analysts think most consumers want to buy things with their cellphone. Tell us commenters, are they right? Are you eager to marry your credit card to your cellphone?
Cellphones as Credit Cards? Americans Must Wait [The New York Times]
(Photo: Ross_Angus)
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Comments:
Are you eager to marry your credit card to your cellphone?
No...and I don't see why anyone would be. If you can carry a cell phone around, you can carry a much thinner credit card around. If you lose your phone, you not only lose your texts/address book/SIM info, but you'd now lose your financial info as well. Plus dealing with multiple inept companies for the same device? I'll pass.
This is the same conundrum they faced when banks wanted retailers to accept debit cards. It took years for it to go from concept to reality.
I don't mind the concept but I'd be more apt to use it if information was transferred via an infrared port. If I knew that my information could only be taken from a machine within my line of sight I'd rest easier. Broadcasting data in a shotgun matter would be my biggest worry.
I don't want my financial info anywhere near my cellphone. Those things break too easily. Now if your cellphone breaks, not only can you not call someone, but you can't use your credit cards either? No thanks. Japan can keep it.
I am happy enough with a paypass FOB with my credit card. Now only if Bank of America would follow citi banks adoption of the tech. and roll out a similar thing.
I would have liked this in my 20's. Now, meh. Besides, if it's between a card and my phone I'm more likely to have a card stuffed in my pocket. Phones are everywhere.
I'll be surprised if this takes anytime soon, unless it's already well under way. The banks would have to let more players into their well-oiled cash cow, give up some percentage, and fund another channel across their system (training, CS, fraud, etc)(things on which they've already done such a bang-up job).
The proponents missed their raging-consumerism window of opportunity. From here out they're fighting bank solvency/profit paranoia, and any gains from increasingly frugal consumers will be slow. Tough sell in the current environment.
This is a ridiculously stupid idea. Why the hell would you want to pay for crap with your cell phone? I know there are people out there who use their cell phones to do everything for them short of walking the dog, but it's ridiculous. It's just another added line of complexity, especially when the damn thing gets stolen or lost.
Hell, I'd like them implant a scanning whozit in my hand a la sci-fi before I'd do the cell phone. At least I can relatively sure that my hand can't walk off without me.
Now when thieves target you, not only do they get your credit card, they get the means by which you can alert authorities or your credit card company.
It's brilliant! It'll give thieves that much more time to purchase things on your dime! What a country!
@henwy: I'd guess that the same rules that apply to credit cards would apply to purchases made with cell phones; that is, you aren't responsible for any unauthorized purchases if it gets stolen or lost.
That said, your response sounds awfully similar to the old saying, "Why the hell would anyone want a computer in their house???"
I don't know why people are so obsessed with having all of their most important technology compacted into one object. I like knowing that losing one thing doesn't mean losing the other. And carrying two things around isn't that much of an inconvenience to me. It's not like I could stop carrying my wallet just because my phone was a credit card.
Oh no way. I found out the hard way that my teenager had been sneaking my cell phone to text his girlfriend after he had his phone taken away as punishment.
$100 worth of text messages later I figured out what he was doing and keypad locked my phone. I don't even want to think about what he could have done with my debt card info in his hands too.
When they get their act together it will be like Hitler making a deal with Stalin.
Having financial information on a cell phone makes no sense, because phones can always be stolen or lost or hacked. Credit cards are easy to lose as it is, whether they're left behind at a store or restaurant or in a stolen wallet.
Sure, then let's get a keyless entry system for my home and put a windows mobile app on there that shoots an IR code to the door to open it.
That's great until I lose my phone or the battery dies. Then I lose my credit cards, the keys to my home, and my contact list, email, etc. Why not just print all my pertinent information on a t-shirt and sell it from a website?
The bigger reason is advertising.
Your credit card is a big ad for the bank, store or organization whose logo is on it.
They discussed consolidating years ago. 1 card with x accounts on it. It could be done. It would actually be easier and cheaper for everyone. Loose the card? Replace it and reattach your accounts to your new card. Simple.
But whose logo would go on it?
First, thank you Plates for godwinning this thread. Second, after spending so much of my adult life learning about computer security, there is no way in hell I would use this feature. I would actively shop for phones that didn't offer it.
No thanks. Do not want.
No. Just... No.
I barely trust Sprint to manage my phone. Last time I changed my service, in order to add a text message plan, it took 3 phone calls.
Quick and convenient transactions be damned! If people reverted back to always using cash for everyday purchases, perhaps we'd see a decrease in peoples' problems with credit card balances and overdrafts.
@youbastid: Why would anyone want a computer in their house? Porn.
Why would anyone want to buy stuff with their cell phone? Don't know if there's porn in that answer.
I think it should go like this:
1. Manufacturer makes cell phone, sends it to credit card company.
2. Credit card company has a deal with the major telcos to sign up new subscribers.
3. Person buys cell phone from credit card company and activates it on their own cell service.
It's really not that hard when you think about it. Also, the card info should be stored on a separate chip inside the cell phone like the ones in paypass cards, so if the cell phone loses power, you can still use the card.
More garbage added to phones that you don't need.
Ringtones, games, texting, videos, music, cameras, video recorders. What next, coffee maker and breathalyzer?
Ringtones? Don't need to but them, you get some for free.
Games? Why did I buy an XBox?
Texting? Whats my unlimited calling plan for?
Videos? I have a DVD player at home.
Music? I have a player at home and in car.
Camera? I have a camera at home.
Video Recorder? I have a video recorder at home.
Just more useless sh*t to sell you and nickel and dime you to death with.
Researchers and industry analysts think most consumers want to buy things with their cellphone.
10,000 people were asked this question:
Would you rather buy things with your cell phone or be burned alive in a flaming car?
The researchers and industry analysts were correct,
10,000 out of 10,000 people said they want to buy things with their cell phones.
@Blueskylaw: I don't think your sample group is large enough. A couple of kids who paint their nails and their hair black might want the later.
I'm almost willing to bet that when they do come to an agreement it will be by screwing the consumer and charging an extra fee for using your phone for credit card payments. As others have said, If I have the pocket space for a cell phone, I have the space for a credit card, too. So, I might use my cell phone for credit card payments if I felt it was secure and if it didn't cost anything additional. Otherwise, forget it. Oh, here's a thought: If a vendor gets your cell phone number from a transaction, does that mean they can add you to their telemarketing list? If that were the case, I would never use my cell phone for credit card transactions.
oh hells no!
i may spend 24/7 with 'Myyy PRECIOUSSS' but that in no way implies i want to allow my carrier & my credit card issuer(s) to gang up on me.
@rpm773: nice ideal, not so nice real. ever seriously tried paying cash for: car rentals, reservations, online purchases (groceries etc. not 'shopping'), tuition? or tried dealing with places not wanting that much cash on hand?
would not be fun.
@Jon R.: Agreed. I am completely unwilling to pay extra to anyone to use my credit card. That's why I have a card with no monthly or yearly fees, and pay off the full balance each month - it's convenient, but I don't want to pay extra for it. Even setting aside security and privacy concerns, which would be substantial, there's no way I'm paying extra for the "convenience" of using my cell phone to pay for stuff, regardless of how small the extra amount I have to pay.
@bohemian: That's what IC lock is for on Japanese phones. 2 keystrokes and I can lock the RFID credit function in my phone with a PIN. One call to the carrier and I can remotely lock my phone if it's stolen. Is it that hard?
@Blueskylaw: You haven't been to Japan, have you?
"Ringtones? Don't need to but them, you get some for free."
I'll concede this one alone.
"Games? Why did I buy an XBox?"
Can't take your XBox onto a train with you. Hour-long commutes are not fun when you only have the people next to you and across from you to stare at.
"Texting? Whats my unlimited calling plan for?"
Unlimited calling doesn't exist in most of the world. It's not all about America, y'know. And in Japan talking on your phone is prohibited on the commuter trains/subways (but it sounds like you've never been in a situation wehre you'd understand why this ban is in place).
"Videos? I have a DVD player at home."
Again, have fun bringing that on a train.
"Music? I have a player at home and in car."
In car? Asian countries are plagued with horrible traffic jams- use of public transport necessitates a portable player.
"Camera? I have a camera at home."
A lot of mobile cameras already rival point-and-shoots where I am.
"Video Recorder? I have a video recorder at home."
Same thing- why bring more if you can carry one do-it-all with you?
Consolidation- I don't want my pockets bulging with unneccessary crap when I can just carry a phone.
@henwy: How ironic. You have a Japanese icon for your profile picture, yet you blindly insult something that is vastly more common in Japan than Domo-kun ever will be.
Paying with a contactless system is simple, less trouble than cash or credit, especially for small purchases like at the 7-11 or for train tickets. And why carry a separate card when you can use your phone and use the phone's abilities to track your purchases and top-up your balances?
And yes, it can even work when your phone has no battery.
Of course I trust AU/KDDI or Softbank a lot further than AT&T or Verizon, but American's gimped infrastructure and Luddite mentality is making sure it slowly but surely falling far behind the rest of the world.
@Jon R.: You haven't been reading up on the Japanese Wallet-phone function, have you? The IC containing credit card info is completely separate from your phone info. And it doesn't cost extra- it would be storing the same data from a conventional RFID card onto your phone instead. Tried a Japanese credit-enabled phone on a Paywave reader- exactly the same.
Security? The IC can be remotely or locally locked. Not too hard to do.
I agree that having a cellphone credit card hybrid is a very bad idea. But there is a better way to buy things without the possibility of identity theft or credit card fraud. You can use alternative payment services like OneTouch On-line Purchasing ([www.onetouchpurchasing.com])
to buy things like games themes and ringtones safely. OneTouch is basically the middle man between you and a trusted billing company like your cellphone or ISP provider, you use OneTouch like paypal except there is no need to input credit card information so phishing sites and the like have no information to steal
@Ookseer:
I think you might need to educate yourself on the definition of irony. It might be one thing if I was criticizing the idea of having tv mascots or something similar, but your formulation is just spastic as is.
The idea that paying with a cell phone is less trouble than cash or credit is just ridiculous. It adds another line of vulnerability, if nothing else. Your phone would carry a good chunk of your credit information if it were ever lost or stolen. It doesn't offer enough convenience to offset the potential harm in my opinion. After all, chances are most people are carrying their wallet or keys with them anyway, right? Either of those items likely already contains a credit card. Why dup up? Besides, who would roam around with nothing but their cell phone?
@Blueskylaw: I'm with you there on the texting part. To quote Samuel L. Jackson's character in The Boondocks "Why would you spend 5 minutes typing some shit you coulda called and said in 5 seconds?" I can't stand it when my friends text message me and I have a smartphone with qwerty keyboard.
Something else I hate is having the goddamn camera shoved down my throat. There are several places that are part of my regular route that do NOT allow cell phone cameras period (Defense contractors) so I have to leave my phone in the car for nearly half the day and end up with dispatchers and angry customers voice malls when I come back out. The easier solution would be to make cameras once again optional. Same phone without the fucking useless camera.
@jamar0303: It's far easier to read an RFID signal than to try and skim a traditional credit card reader.
If the credit card portion can be used even when the phone is turned off, all it takes is a casual "bump" from the person next to you for them to be in range.
I'd rather they stay separate, but really don't care as long as I'm given the choice to use physical CC. I'm assuming there will be 0 liability for fraudulent transactions so not worried about that, I just don't believe it will be convenient for me. I always have my credit card with me, but have forgotten my cell lots of times.
@henwy: Given this ability, me. Why carry more than you need to? And of course paying by phone is easier. Tap and go. If you insist, tap, type your PIN, then go. Whether it's taking the train/subway, buying snacks at Circle K, or buying a new laptop, it's all that easy. Lose your phone? Call the carrier, they'll remotely lock the phone and IC to prevent unauthorized use (this isn't America we're talking about, of course they'll do it). Or you can PIN-lock it yourself.
@MrEvil: May I recommend you the Sharp 813SH? Sounds like what you're after- camera-less phone that makes phone calls.
@OwenCatherwood: The phone has to run the transaction by the carrier for authorization when making purchases- wrong phone or not a phone (if using data skimmed from a phone IC) and the info they have is useless. Or you can prevent skimming if you're that worried by having the phone prompt you at read time for confirmation.
@hypochondriac: Funnily enough I'm the opposite- never leave home without my cellphone, but half the time my credit card sits at home.
@supercereal: "dealing with multiple inept companies"-See, that's why I think it took off so well in Japan. Corporate ineptitude in Japan exists, but not quite to the degree it exists in America. At least they're organized enough to pull this off.
@RadicalBender: Or you head to the nearest payphone, call the carrier toll-free and tell them to remotely lock your phone and IC. Problem solved.
Our two sleaziest industries combine for a super sleazefest.
I'm not sure exactly what you're claiming to represent. Are you saying you normally go around with neither keys nor wallet and the only thing you carry is your cell phone so this technology would be useful? The difference in the amount of time it would take to swipe your cell phone and swiping a credit card on a keychain is negligable. heck, if you had to add the extra security to lock the phone each time it might actually be faster with the credit card.
@bohemian: Oh, and that was quite the non-sequitur. It also shows you how darn expensive texting is in the States... Here you have to be texting one mail per minute 24/7 to get bills that high (or you can make it impossible).
@pecan pi: Phones? Hacked? Maybe American ones, but Japanese phones are locked up tighter than Fort Knox.
@oneliketadow: That's the problem with US providers. They just plain suck. That's also why this works in Japan- the carriers there actually have their act together.
No