I'm going to start "demanding for Portland" whenever I talk to a CSR henceforth...bank CSR or otherwise.

what is this "good old fashioned check register", of which you speak?

I hate US Bank. HATE. Once in college I was trapped in that overdraft circle of death, it's ugly. I'm sure I am already on the NO Fee Removal list due to my impatience with them calling me once a week to try and sell me things. Plus I wouldn't even bank there if it was not for their shady recruiting tactics at my university.

@calquist: Sorry, I tend to vent my US Bank frustration to anyone/everyone who will listen or at least pretend to.

I'm curious as to why Portland is better for dealing with fraud. I get that they're more "by the book", but would the other service centers just drop the ball on a fraud case? Or is there something more sinister?

Here's a FORMER U.S. Bank User horror story for you.

A Local bar here in San Diego (*cough* Saeus) went crazy with their preauthorizations and it ended up screwing up my checking account pretty badly.

The first time I called U.S. Bank they said they couldn't do anything, I'd have to get refunds from the Merchant (who quickly pointed back to the bank) etc. The amount of Over-pre-auths were 50 to 100 dollars for 5 dollar tabs... I used my card 5 times in 1 night at 1 bar... (I never leave an open tab after having a bar slap 70 dollars of drinks I didn't buy onto my card once.) Needless to say, I was in a bit of shock to find 500 dollars "pre-authorized" from the bar the next morning, along with a negative available balance and the Overdraft fees already starting to incur.

By the end of it all, I ended up with about 350 dollars or so in overdraft charges, thanks to small purchases I had made (lunch, gas, etc) The most outrageous part of it all though, was after the ACTUAL charges came in, my balance, even with the overdraft charges, was still positive, although by a far lesser amount.

It took 3 separate phone calls, talking with 2 supervisors and about a week of annoyance before I was able to get everything corrected. I was told after the smoke cleared that my "grace" overdraft was used, and I wouldn't be allowed to have any other overdraft charges removed for at least a year. I pointed out the errors weren't my fault, and the bank basically said it didn't matter because I am responsible for my "Available Balance" and not the bank.

I went to WAMU the next day (prior to their purchase by Chase) and I haven't looked back since.

After that incident, I only use cash at bars, just to be on the safe side...

"Demand for Portland" would make a great band name...

My wife works for US Bank, so I have heard some of these things, although this list is a bit sensationalized.

If I could recommend one bit of advice - avoid overdraft charges by getting a line of credit of some sort. Yes, it puts you into "debt" by transferring money into your checking when you go negative, but just pay it right back and you don't incur any interest. And it's a helluva lot cheaper than getting nailed with $35 charges for each transaction you do while negative, and the $35 a day you incur for having a negative balance. Please, everybody, do yourselves a favor and get an LOC to avoid this. Or better yet stop overdrafting. The bankers at the branches are powerless to the rules, so you a-holes that scream at them are doing nothing but ruining their day.

@ScottRose: @ScottRose: The Portland call center probably has better employees/trainers/managers than the other centers, or more people that just follow the procedures. In both retail and customer service situations where there is more than one location, each location develops it's own way of following procedures, whether it is correct or not, and that can last, even through personnel changes. I highly doubt that there is anything particularly sinister going on at the other locations.

@calquist: we all have bank horror stories, it's to be expected. Wooooo-saaaaaaahhh.

Am I the only one here disgusted by this? :facepalm:

@half-beast: Definitely.

Okay, I know you guys can answer this question for me. How come people overdraft? It's such a simple question, I know, but I've never overdrafted before so I'm not sure exactly how one would go about spending more money than they actually had in their account.

If someone has $50 in their checking account, isn't it obvious to that person that they can only spend $50, and after spending $40 it doesn't mean this person still has $50 in their account, it's just $10?

I can understand if maybe this person were to spend $100 thinking they were going to get a deposit in their account to reflect the increased amount...but don't people get a spidey sense when they spend close to the limit and stop until they a) get more money in the account or b) the charge clears and they can see again how much money they have left?

Explain please.

@BernardMaynooth: Bank of America does this same thing now (and I'm pretty sure they didn't a year or two ago). I recently had some overdraft fees assessed on my "available" balance, which was low due to pending charges that were for amounts larger than the actual charges.

Once everything posted, I was shocked at how--despite my running balance never going below (or to) zero--there were two overdraft charges on my account. Simply did not make sense. I was under the impression my balance had to go below zero for the bank to charge me overdraft fees. What a concept.

After about six e-mails back and forth with B of A's non-English-understanding online customer service people, someone finally reversed the fees.

But, in general, I believe this available balance thing is the trend as to how banks are now assessing overdraft fees, rather than the actual balance.

@ScottRose: It's likely due to a call center manager in Portland creating an environment of being more vigilant about following the rules and training.

@Writer, TheNinjaReport: Kids. Teenagers. And college students.

"...can even cause a "rouge" 24 hour banker..."

So are we saying that the Commies are screwing with our checking accounts now? I thought the Cold War ended.

@djshack: Also borderline shady practices by banks designed to cause an overdraft, like altering the order in which transactions post, among other things. Although I don't think that last one is done so much anymore. Last I heard of it was several years ago. But there are others, like authorization holds and the pending transactions going stealth for a few hours as mentioned above.

@djshack: Adults too. Age does not equal financial smarts.

@Writer, TheNinjaReport:

"If someone has $50 in their checking account, isn't it obvious to that person that they can only spend $50, and after spending $40 it doesn't mean this person still has $50 in their account, it's just $10?"

Oh, if it were that simple. I have a US Bank account (expressly because of The Consumerist's entries about the ability to 'turn off' the Courtesy Overdraft Protection), and here's what's happened to me *several* times:

To use your example, I have $50 in my checking account. I then buy a $5 pack of cigarettes, $10 worth of gas, and a $1.99 video on iTunes. The next day, my account is negative $112.50

Why is this? Because I didn't really have $50 in my checking account. Did something just come in overnight? Nope. Looking back through the account history, I find some charge from two weeks ago that wasn't there at the time I made the purchase. But it is now, and I'm overdrafted... *Even though I have a letter from U.S. Bank stating that I will never be given 'Overdraft Protection'.

This has happened to me three times now, and each time takes a week of talking/explaining/arguing to CSRs to get the charges off my account. And don't bother talking to a CSR about not having Overdraft Protection... they've never heard of it and will just transfer you to someone else or hang up on you outright.

@ionerox: Or the OP trying their hardest to sound like some kind of informant.

What gets me the most, and I think also bothers others, is that the whole situation is completely avoidable: Don't authorize the charge and deny my card if there are insufficient funds. All these problems fade to dust if banks were to adopt this policy. However, they are more interested in creating situations wherein they might charge overdraft fees.

@Writer, TheNinjaReport: It's happened to us before, my husband and I both have debit cards on our joint checking account. Sometimes one of us uses our debit card and doesn't tell the other soon enough.

For example I will check in the morning and see a $200 balance, and debit $175 at the dentist. Little did I know that my husband debited $50 stopping to pick up a few things at Target on his lunch hour the same day. So we have a $25 overdraft, plus a $35 fee.

We stopped this by linking our checking account to a credit card with the same bank for free. Now if there is an accidental overdraft, it's just charged to the card. We can pay it right off with the next check, and it sure beats overdraft fees.

@Writer, TheNinjaReport: There are a fair number of people who find paying attention to how much goes into their account and what they are spending is boring, or too hard. So, no, not everybody has a 'spidey sense', or if they do, don't want to listen to it, because that would mean actually taking responsibility for themselves.

This is great info! However, the writer needs to learn the difference between "there", "their" and, "they're". He also needs to learn that there is a difference between "then" and "than". Is this the kind of uneducated people who work the phones at a bank?

@downwithmonstercable:

What about the dishonest tactics that some banks use that push the larger transactions through first, cause you to go into overdraft and, then make you incur more fees for each subsequent transaction? I understand that we should keep track of our own money and avoid overdrafts but, it does happen sometimes. It's wrong for a bank to post transactions out of order. It's clear that the goal was to charge as many overdraft fees as possible. The BS that they like to tell you is that they were trying to allow your rent check or, car payment or, whatever to go through so you would have the money in your account to cover the transaction. It's a total scam because if they had just allowed the transactions to go through in their proper order, the first transactions would pay out fine and then, the larger one would make you go into overdraft. That's a difference between two overdraft fees and, one. It's done on purpose and the banks are scamming us.

@Writer, TheNinjaReport:

Congratulations to you Mary Poppins! There are lots of reasons why some people may go into overdraft status. The banks know that this happens sometimes to decent, honest people who do manage their money properly and, they simply take advantage of the situation and try to milk them for as much money as possible. Not everyone who goes into overdraft is a deadbeat or a bad money manager. Maybe they just forgot about a transaction or, a deposit didn't post when it should have. Who knows? The problem here is twofold: 1. The banks are shysters and, 2. The banking system operates as if it's still the 1980's. Since a lot of us use debit cards, those transactions should post INSTANTLY instead of this crap where they post every night or some other dumb stupid thing.

I've never had an overdraft fee in my life, and it's certainly not because my chequing account hasn't gone negative - that happens almost every month.

I have a small ($1k) personal line of credit attached to my chequing account. If it goes negative, it goes negative, and I get charged 6.5% interest on the balance I'm using. Then when I get paid I'm back in the black. It's usually worked out to about a dollar a month in interest on that line of credit.

Is this just a Canadian thing? Or maybe it's a credit union thing...

@kreatre2009: Better would be if The Consumerist hired a proofreader or even an editor with the ability to proofread.

@kreatre2009: @cecilpl: Correct spelling of homophones is a vital skill for working in a call center.

@kreatre2009: isaheriwohgpiergiewrhngviergreoi;gjeogjreio;jwgreioghewoa;i.

Hopefully your head just exploded.

@kreatre2009:

Why would an educated person want to answer phones at a bank?

@calquist: I hate US Bank because they stole $10 from me.

I lived in Spokane, WA for a period of time, as a writer. When I moved back east, one of my royalty checks (a whole $10) did not get forwarded. When my publisher faxed me a copy of the canceled check, someone had written my name, signed theirs, and deposited it in a US Bank.

Funny, because I never opened an account with US Bank. Ever. Which is why they wouldn't deal with me or my editor when we called to say that it was check fraud. Repeatedly, we were informed that because I wasn't a customer, I couldn't file a complaint; because the check wasn't drawn on a US Bank account my (small) publisher couldn't file a complaint. My publisher tried to go through their bank, but US Bank insisted that my name, printed in a chicken scratch print that would never pass for my loopy, Catholic school girl print, was my signature.

Because the publisher was so small, they apologized but did not pursue the matter further. :(

I hate US Bank so much.

Sounds like I should not bank there.

@cecilpl: It's available at most US banks, but many of them don't publicize it. When I was 18 the bank I was with offered the overdraft line of credit to me, and I've always asked about it ever since.

My theory is people don't know about it. And that banks aren't too interested in spreading the word because even when the interest rate is high (e.g. about 22% at Citi now), its profit to the bank is still pennies on the dollar compared to charging "fees" for overdrafting.

@kreatre2009: The tellers do not do that though. When transactions enter the system, the system orders them, they don't stay the way the teller enters them. I 100% agree that is deceptive and wrong - but I am talking about people needing overdraft protection for their every day overdrafts. My wife has a horror story once or twice a week about people getting into a downward spiral of debt from overdrafts until their account is closed, and credit hurt.

Hate to tell you, but this is all banks. I used to work for Sovereign Bank and they're the same way. Continually placings fees on overdrawn customers, refusing fee reversals (to be honest though, most of the time its because the moron KNEW they had only 20 bucks and took out 40), and generally NOT helping the customer. That was more because of our manager than anything else. What people don't realize is that if you don't like how you get treated, go higher than the manager. The way a branch is ran is all by him/her...and if you don't like how it is, go higher. Get their sorry asses FIRED!

PS - don't miss working in a bank at all. When you're told by your manager NOT to mention a higher yielding savings account to a customer cause "it'll cost the bank too much money", you realize you need a new job. I prefer the Army.

@kreatre2009: Proper grammar has nothing to do with education. So they used the words wrong...it still made sense, didn't it? Not everyone gets hung up on grammar or even CARES if it looks right. As long as it makes sense, it's OK.

PS - Bank employees are retarded. I joined the Army and my one co-worker said she was afraid cause I'd be "parachuting into the jungles of Iraq".

@Writer, TheNinjaReport: BernardMaynooth explained it quite nicely. Buy a drink, have a $100 pre-authorization placed on the account. Another drink, another $100... five drinks total made for $500 in pre-authorizations on the account.

Now, with all the money in the account on hold, stop for gas, pick up lunch, and so on, racking up the fees.

Or in my case, a paycheck (from a Fortune 100 company) didn't clear for two weeks. Usually it was three days. There was no reason given. The manager finally admitted he didn't know why it didn't clear. I went over on a couple of checks, which generated fees, which pushed me deeper, which generated more fees...

None of those fees would be removed, he told me. So I went into the large main section of the bank, an impressive three story room with marble walls and pillars, and started yelling my story. During the Friday rush. Suddenly the manager decided to refund my fees and see that the check cleared.

Did Jesus go to the "District Manger"?

@YNinja: Uh. The implication is that they aren't aware of the proper grammar, not that they don't care to use it. Judging by the post they don't know the difference.

Also, the attitude of "it makes sense, it's ok" isn't doing anyone any favors.

i have BoA accounts, so i guess im glad i live in portland? i personally hate bank of america so...

When I was much younger I made a simple math error and went .02 cents over (I thought I had $5 to spare) when I wrote a check getting groceries. That .02 cost me $60. $35 to the bank for the overdraft and $25 to the grocery store. It made me so paranoid for awhile that I would make the mistake again that I literally balanced my checkbook via the banks phone in line every night for about 3 months.

@kreatre2009: Here's why banks send through the larger transactions first (I work for one of the largest banks in the US):

Would you rather pay your mortgage or for that pack of gum?

As simple as that. I know at my bank in particular it used to be a "first come first clear" system, however clients were defaulting on loans, being late and it was costing the bank more money becuase we allowed a pack of gum to clear the account while rejecting the mortgage payment.

Yes to some people it came seem "biased" by the banks and a way for "the man to get you" and whatnot, but the fact of the matter is rather simple, having a bank account is a privelege, not a right, as simple as that. Banking is a business and you are given full disclosure when you open the account as to all fees, charges and everything else involved with that account per federal regulations. If you don't have all that information stop in your nearest branch to get a pamphlet or print out.

Do errors happen? Yes, a lot more often than you could imagine, but if something is clearly an error and the bank isn't willing to assist you in fixing it, simply cite Reg E which is a federal law stating consumers liability in fraudulent and incorrent electronic payments.

On the other hand, if you don't take personal responsibilty for your own finances and overdraw, it's your fault, not the banks. You and you alone are responsible for knowing what is in your account. Many vendors and merchants don't do same day processing of their ACH and credit transactions so a lot of times it's not the bank deducting the amount from your balance, it's the merchant not sending us the information to debit your account so we never knew a payment was made.

A simple way to help you if you don't want to go through the hassle of a check register and whatnot is to ensure that everything you purchase with a bank card is done as "Debit". Anything done as "Credit" is at the merchants (not the banks) discretion regarding the time that the transactions are actually sent to the bank allowing them to "pre-charge" for any amount they see fit.

Seriously, grammar check would have made this article about three times easier to read. I know it was just copied and pasted from the CSR... but maybe that's why he's a CSR and not a blog editor.

GASP! A bank that bends you over and gives it to you in the butt, sans lube?

I've had problems -- boy, have I had problems -- with Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, US Bank *and* Washington Mutual. They're all a bunch of scammers and thieves and as a rule I don't do business with any large financial institution, with one exception: I have accounts with USAA, which is for military veterans and their immediate families, and I've been pretty satisfied with them for five years. Of course, they screw up too, and plenty, but they give me a lot less static about getting my problems solved.

@exconsumer9: Some banks see allowing a customer to overdraw as a customer courtesy. If I write a check for my mortgage and the bank denies it, I'm going to be going through some serious crap to straighten things out. If, on the other hand, the bank authorizes it and chargest me $35.00, it's a bit easier for me to deal with.

@exconsumer9: Most banks provide that as an option, but most banks also leave you "opted in" to overdraft "protection" by default. We bank with a small local bank, and when I found out that they actually require a request to opt IN to overdraft protection, I just about kissed the lady helping us set up the account.

They've found that they tend to lose more money in the long haul by leaving every customer opted in, because the fees can stack up so much that many people simply go "deadbeat" and either leave the account in a negative balance and ignore the collections notices (and/or pay off collections very slowly) or that fraudsters actually just use the account's overdraft protection as a line of credit before jumping to another bank without paying it off.

Welcome to yet another puzzle piece in our current credit crunch.

@stpauliegirl: Actually, proper quotation guidelines dictate that someone else's writing be left intact and unedited, generally, so a proofreader wouldn't help in a quoted message (although they could insert "(sic)" where appropriate if they felt masochistic enough to run through the entire thing).