What about the shoe bomber?

Because it didnt work its not serious?

Or because it was just an excuse to make us take off or shoes its not serious?

@endless: * our shoes

Prior to the use of airplanes as weapons the "best thing" for passengers to do in a hijacking was to keep quiet and avoid getting individual attention from the hijackers as there was a +90% chance that everything would be OK eventually.

Now that all the passengers know their lives (and the lives of an unknown number of others) are forfeit, they are no longer going to sit quietly, they are far more likely to attempt to overpower the hijackers at whatever price and prevent the greater tragedy.

At least I know I would be getting all "Flight 93" on the hijackers.

TSA had nothing to do with the shoe bomber. He got on a flight in Paris. Other passengers stop him from lighting his symtex with a match, not that that would have worked anyway, the stuff burns like a candle when a flame is put to it.

I can't think of a single hijacking in airline history where the hijackers got on the plane in the US. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Chertoff is completely full of shit.

Maybe it was the TSA's plan to make air travel such a complete pain in the balls that terrorist would find more convenient targets, not wanting to spend the few hours left of their lives in airport hell.

@headhot: "I can't think of a single hijacking in airline history where the hijackers got on the plane in the US. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Chertoff is completely full of shit."

Besides 9/11.

@headhot: Dan Cooper boarded in Portland, OR.

Joel Johnson, original editor of the Consumerist.

Times really have come full circle.

@headhot: Fedex hijacking happened in Memphis

@Parapraxis: Yeah, I miss Joel. If he was still here I don't think they would have to resort to selling it.

@WillG: I'm with you on this one. I don't think passengers will allow another hijacking after 9/11 (if only due to the fact that they think their lives are forfeit if they don't do anything).

I do think, though, that aircraft can be destroyed as acts of terrorism (like the shoe bomber's attempt, and pan-am) but the question how that will happen, which is kind of why the TSA is such a huge pain in the ass. They try to account for every possible scenario (and then some), to ridiculous proportions.

Given that kind of responsibility, I can't see any limit to where they will go in screening that would accomplish their goals, but nobody is saying "you've done enough"

Typical Bush hack, why tell the truth when a lie will work so much better

@WillG:

I think what he was trying to say - or should have said - is not so much that hijackings were routine as that 1)pre-9/11, few steps were made to prevent hijackings and 2)the response plan for a hijacking was generally to do whatever the hijackers said in the short term, with the expected endgame that the plane would land and either negotiate or storm the plane with SWAT.

I don't think it's so much as that hijackings were "routine" as that they were looked at as minor issues and not major acts of terrorism.

@madanthony:

Even Pre-9/11 hijackings were not happening everyday nor were they as common as to be considered mundane.

I do believe that they authorities were not too concerned about them mostly because of their rarity.
If one flight in 100,000 (* warning! b.s. stat, only for the sake of the discussion) is hijacked and the outcome is generally 99% of passengers survive and the plane needs repair why change everything for a one in 100,000 chance.

Hmm, Why indeed.

Uhhhh..... yes, government officials lie. What was the story again?

Who knew that "regular, routine" and "from time to time" were NOT contradictory?

@TrueBlue63: Typical liberal knee jerk commenter, why say something insightful when you can bring up Bush?

Wait...what?

Air France Flight 8969? 1994

yea and I hope the terrorist picks my flight to hijack vs some nuns cause I goings to pop open a door and they get see paradise at 20,000 feet and descending.

@Ninja007: The Fedex is really fair since that was a cargo plane not commercial passenger.

@Tmoney02: is not**

Of course there haven't been any bombings or hijackings lately..not even terrorists can afford the outrageous fares and all the damned fees!

Chertoff spouts the usual line of BS used to justify the existence of a questionable federal agency.

you know, it all comes down to foreign policy. if we didn't half-ass our relations with nations all over the world, we wouldn't have most of the problems we have today. 30 years ago, the whole of asia minor could care less about america. we start fiddling around & in 3 decades we've managed to turn millions of people against us.

it's like all throughout our history (& even today), we make some of the dumbest decisions in the interest of easy politics & fast profits for american corps. & every time it ends up biting us in the ass 10-20-30 years down the road.

it's the classic "tale of two masters". you can't promote democracy & american corporatism abroad at the same time - those two policies are in complete juxtaposition with each other.

someday we as a society will be educated enough to realize that & demand a more insightful approach to international relations by our government.

Although not as high profile, it does seem that the long lines to get through airport security make for easier targets.

@adambadam: I can.
My mom was on a flight from New York to Miami with stops in Richmond and Atlanta.
She got off in Richmond, the plane was hijacked between Richmond and Atlanta, and the plane ended up in Cuba.

@Ninja007: Does that one really count? Since the pilots managed to fight him off, I'd call it an "attempted hijacking".
Fun fact: The disgruntled former FedEx employee apparently wanted to crash the plane into FedEx's corporate headquarters.

@ameyer:

Can we just stop selling copies of The Running Man (the book, not the movie)? Please?

(ps, said entirely in jest)

@mac-phisto: Please tell me you don't vote.

@TrueBlue63: The second part is true, but typical he's not. There's a reason he's nicknamed "Skeletor" in some circles.

@AtomicPlayboy: He shouldn't vote because you disagree with him?

The PSA flight in 1987 was taken down by a disgruntled ex-US Air (which had just bought PSA) employee who still had his employee ID and used it to bypass security checks at LAX. (Thanks to this incident employees can't do that anymore.) He brought a gun on board, shot the pilots, and the plane crashed. So I guess it was technically a hijacking, but not in the traditional sense.

@WillG: I had to fly from STL to SFO in December of '01 and I still remember deciding that I would resist if someone tried to take the plane.

You know that the arm rest comes off easily, and that 'flotation device' cushion would make a dandy shield against a box cutter...

I flew out of New York last week and had forgotten that I had a 12 ounce bottle of water in my backpack. It went through security without any hassle. Good job, guys.

I will add that when I got home, I discovered that my checked baggage had been randomly selected for extra inspection by the TSA (they leave a note in your bag when they do this). Second time for me, oh joy.

@Tmoney02: Not fair? Because cargo planes crashing into buildings wouldn't kill anybody or cause damage?

@MissPeacock: We flew from DC to San Juan last week, via JFK. I had a water bottle and a bottle of contact lens solution on me, but they didn't say anything. BUT they were no longer playing the "3-1-1" video at top volume on an endless loop, nor did I see those signs as prominently as they used to be, so I think they might be intentionally toning down the liquids rhetoric.

The TSA searched my fiancé's suitcase on the way down... busted the zipper, so we had to do some creative thinking to make it back. I guess decent luggage is on the registry now, haha...

@endless: Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) attempted to blow that plane up on a flight FROM Paris, Charles De Gaulle airport iirc, which is also not under TSA oversight. :)

The PSA flight (a BAe-146 jet) was destroyed when a disgruntled employee broke into the cockpit and shot both pilots to death. The CEO was on the flight. It is thought to have been a suicide/murder on the part of the employee.

I spent 20+ years in the airline industry in the front-line trenches (ramp/counter/gate) and as a Ground Security Coordinator designee. My comments on the system are not complimentary, but I can't (and won't) say more thatn that.

@headhot: The big hijacking years of the late 1960s-early 1970s involved numerous hijackings from within America. The "to Cuba" thing wasn't just a joke--it was actually the common domestic hijacking request. In 1968, 19 domestic flights were hijacked to Cuba. Then add in the failed attempts that were nonetheless pretty impressive, such as Samuel Byck's in 1974, and you've got a pretty hijack-rich period.

The rate dropped considerably toward the end of the 1970s and has never really gone back up to that level, but, much as I hate to say it, if Chertoff is thinking of that era, he's not too far wrong. However, he's a bad teller of time if he's forgotten about the intervening quarter of a century.

@WillG:

Dead on correct. Another hijacking attempt will only result in a can of whoop ass being opened.

The biggest safety improvement to come from the aftermath of 9/11 are the fortified cockpit doors. Air Marshals on every flight is a bit of an improvement but not nearly as big as those doors.

IMO, the TSA (and Dept of HS) only serves to amplify our fears when what we need these days is common sense and courage.

@WillG: And not only is your seat cushion a floatation device, but the same straps make it a more than adequate shield against BS such as a boxcutter. Anyone who tries to hijack a plane now is likely to get a royal beatdown.

@Jim: He probably just meant the boarding procedures are different for a cargo jet (leaving from a cargo terminal with only a crew) vs a passenger jet (leaving from a public terminal with crew + passengers.)

@Sidecutter: Hah, my bad, I'm not the only one to have that idea I see...

Well, we always knew Chertoff was an incompetent buffoon, but now we know he's a bald-faced liar too. I applaud Joel for this interview - as soon as Chertoff started in with the Big Lies to cover his & Bush's asses, I would have been quite unable to maintain any level of civility to this sack of crap.

I seem to remember that there were a lot of hijackings to Cuba in the 1970s, but since then? Anything but routine.

I take on at least one extra, non-approved size bottle of water, hair gel, lotion, whatever per flight, just b/c I am apparently too high-maintenance for the little baggie. I always pack something I'm okay with losing forever should it be discovered and confiscated. And they NEVER FIND IT. Or, if they find it, they don't give a damn.

@WillG: Heck yeah. When I get on a plane now, I typically look for suspects that might attempt to take the plane, and dudes that will help me take them down.

@narayan1121: Yes, didn't you get the memo? This is America, where we're not content to disagree with other viewpoints, we DESTROY them. Thanks, political polarization!

@narayan1121: No, he shouldn't vote because he has such a simplistic, misguided view of nature of terrorism. The argument that the 19 nutjobs who crashed the planes on 9/11 did so because of some legitimate political grievance is both incorrect and disgusting, and to imply that nihilistic maniacs who seek to destroy America would (and should) be placated by a reduction in corporatism it to completely understand the modern Islamist terrorist. This sounds like so much blather in a pot-smoke-filled dorm room, and I sincerely hope that it is not an opinion which is also expressed in a voting booth.

@Beerad: DESTROY? Oh, please.

@Krobar: Plus he was smart enough to hide bombs in his shoes but too dumb to put a lighter in there, so it probably shouldn't count.

Also worth noting, we haven't had any alien attacks lately because I keep my trusty ultra-sonic alien repellent turned on nightly.

@floraposte: There were so many attempts to hijack planes and redirect them to Cuba in the 70's that it invaded popular culture. I may be dating myself here, but there was a Monty Python skit I remember that involved John Cleese playing a would-be hijacker that kept getting thrown off his various modes of transport. I still think of the quote "Take this bus to Cuba!" whenever I have to board a bus.