Help! I Bought A Pirated Copy Of Windows!
Emily bought a very "high quality" pirated copy of Windows from an Amazon seller and didn't realize that anything was amiss for an entire year.
Now she's trying to find some way to get a replacement copy — or her $225 back, but is having no luck.
Emily writes:
I purchased a copy of Windows XP Pro from Amazon.com's marketplace in 2007. I've gone a FULL YEAR without any sign that my OS was pirated. I have been able to get all updates, all normal interaction with microsoft's website and I passed the Genuine Windows scan.
That is, until Dec 10, 2008. My computer installed updates overnight, and in the morning I discovered it had rebooted and was now telling me that my version of Windows may be pirated. (Long story short here: I verified that it was pirated by scouring microsoft's website and comparing the items that came with my copy with what's described there. It really is pirated.)
My first stop was to dig up my emailed receipt and contact Amazon.com's support. I explained that the purchase was made a year ago, and they told me to contact the seller first, and if he/she does not resolve the issue, it will be on my file and I can be issued a refund.
I contacted the seller through Amazon.com's "contact seller" feature. I received an auto-reply saying that the seller's account had been closed.
I contacted amazon.com's support again, and eventually, the support person assured me that the Billing Department would email me in 24 hours and that I would get a refund.
I received an email from their Billing Department at last, but it said that because the sale was after 90 days, I cannot receive a refund.
At this point, I started researching Microsoft's programs to protect people from piracy and resolve issues of piracy. I found their Genuine Advantage Kit program, and believe I am fully qualified for the program and should be able to receive a free copy of Windows in exchange for my pirated media except for one tiny detail: my receipt from Amazon.com does not include the merchant's address, and I am required to send a receipt that has an address.
I can't contact Microsoft support to ask for an exception about this address-receipt issue without paying their $60 fee because my copy of Windows is illegitimate.
I googled for further help and found posts on consumerist.com that included the advice to contact ecr@amazon.com if I'm having trouble gaining traction on a support issue.
I have written to them to ask for one of two resolutions: 1.) refund my purchase, or 2.) provide me with a receipt that includes an address so that I can take advantage of the Genuine Advantage program and replace my pirated copy of Windows with a legit copy.
I have yet to receive any reply from ecr, and I honestly don't expect to. I'm sure their privacy policy protects merchants from sellers and they won't give me the seller's registered address. If they decide to give me a refund, then I'll be satisfied, but I don't expect that they will.
I don't really know what else to do except accept the fact that I've been a victim of piracy and I have no recourse. I'd love to find a way to contact Microsoft support without paying their fees so I could get clarification on the receipt issue.
My last resort will be to try and mail in my media and my receipt to Microsoft without an address and just hope that Microsoft does the right thing and replaces my copy. I have nothing more to lose at this point, I suppose... considering that my copy is now detected as pirated, it's not really worth much to me anymore. I'm just out the $225.00 I spent to use Windows for a year. (it's more like renting my own computer! haha!)
I feel that there should be some protection for consumers from "high quality piracy" like this where the piracy was not detected for a full year. i don't plan on ever purchasing anything from amazon.com's marketplace ever again because purchases do not come with enough protection.
Yuck! What a mess. We suggest trying to kick your complaint to the top — all the way to the CEO. It seems that your issue just needs a little TLC. We suspect that if Amazon's Marketplace has sellers who are (or were) dealing in pirated copies of Windows — Microsoft will probably want to know about it.
As for Amazon's lack of response from their executive customer service team, that's unfortunate. We'd suggest cc'ing them on the email you write to Microsoft. You at least deserve a response.
Here's some Microsoft contact information for you.
Has this happened to anyone else? What did you do?
This is a test using rich text formatting and html links. It's the generic "company" ad that should appear on all posts with the Company category if they don't have an ad attached to a specific company.
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Comments:
Never buy software from a non-retailer.
But as far as the seller's address, wouldn't it be Amazon.com? Does the receipt indicate Amazon.com anywhere on it? If so, circle it, and send it off to Microsoft. Let their lawyers talk to Amazon's lawyers.
I believe it is Amazon's responsibility to make sure that the sellers they are representing are operating legitimately.
Solution:
www.ubuntu.com
In related Amazon sells pirated software news: [tech.yahoo.com]
I tend to purchase all my "big ticket" software from brick and mortar stores. Personal stores on Amazon and Ebay are always risky.
But they threw in a free Rolexx. I thought it was a great deal.
If you cannot get the address from Amazon then you should definitely try to contact MS by other means then phone contact, it is really a shame they charge people to help them use their products.
Depending on what you use your computer for this might be a good opportunity for you to step out of the windows confines and try something like Linux. It is free and can be downloaded and burned to a CD or DVD and you have no limitation on how many computers you use it on or how often you want to use the install disc. It belongs to you rather then like you said "renting" windows for decent but aging OS.
Here's a link if you want to evaluate it, just make sure you research a bit and understand what will/wont work for it for your computer hardware and software and what alternative software is out there that would do what you need. Lifehacker (one of the other Gawker sites like consummerist) has a ton of information to read Linux.
Here's a link to Ubuntu Linux which I personally use:
[www.ubuntu.com]
And their support forums to ask questions:
[ubuntuforums.org]
If nothing else it could get you by in the meantime! Never hurts to have a backup plan.
Caveat Emptor.
@grimdeath9740: Don't forget Ubuntu comes as a Live-CD, so you can at least boot it up on your system, and get to your data while you wait this out.
@spazztastic:
Not necessarily. The Amazon marketplace is much like eBay, in which Amazon simply links up buyers and sellers, and isn't necessarily responsible for what occurs after the "introduction." It seems that holding Amazon responsible in situations like this would subject them to almost unlimited liability anytime a buyer is unsatisfied with a purchase from a Marketplace seller. It's like holding the organizer of a flea market responsible for the illegitimate transactions of those who rent space. Unless Amazon knew or had reason to know of the sellers illegitimate business practices (and I don't think their failure to investigate in absence of complaints would suffice), they shouldn't be liable to the buyer. The structure of the marketplace is clear, and Amazon goes to great lengths to let people know that they are NOT buying the product from Amazon.
The address issue is another story, but it would seem that Amazon probably isn't obligated to turn it over absent a subpoena.
@grimdeath9740: one other thing, you can run Ubuntu as a "live cd" which means it will run a bit slower (running directly off the CD) but does not require you to install anything to your hard drive. Certain features like networking and for me, my wireless mouse did not function properly in this mode though. Once I did a full install those features worked perfectly.
Just another heads up!
Did you build your own computer or did you upgrade to XP ontop of Win 98/ME/2000?
I typically buy all of my software from Newegg.com. They even have these "OEM System Builder" copies of XP Home/Media/Pro for pretty cheap and 100% legit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116049
For all the money Microsoft charges for their product you would think they could afford to answer simple questions over the phone.
Take this as an omen, try out a different operating system. Ubuntu is great for anything windows does except gaming and despite what people tend to think you do not have to use the command line and it usually configures everything automatically for you.
see a couple posts above for links and info.
So make up an address. Use the address of a local flea market or something.
And Americans wonder why consumer confidence is so low these days.
Uh - How about submitting the form with Amazon's corporate address? At least you'd have the form's requirements met - in theory the seller was operating out of Amazon's 'space'....
Definitely stick with Amazon for the address. They almost surely have one on file. If you can afford to wait, and I realize you may not be able to, try waiting until after the Christmas insanity is over? It's their rush time of the year and you may be getting lost in the hiked traffic.
What's up with all the Ubuntu shills on this post?
Tough situation for all involved. Microsoft obviously has their interests to look out for. My dealings with them have been relatively pleasant (I had a motherboard replaced by Dell under a service contract, which windows recognized as a completely different computer. A quick call to MS had my license key freed up for the new hardware).
Amazon is usually great about stopping fraud and making things right, but a year is a really long time, and as the seller account has disappeared, they may not be able to recover anything from the seller, so they're naturally going to be tight with any refund. I wouldn't write off the marketplace entirely; I've had nothing but good experiences myself. I would like to point out that for what it is, amazon marketplace purchases have a lot of protection; it is just a little unreasonable to expect a middle-man to give you a refund for a transaction that completed over a year ago.
The MS program seems to be the best bet. Try to get whatever addresses you can from shipping records and from Amazon, and include those with the invoice or receipt that you do have.
As another had suggested, this might be a good opportunity to explore linux. I'm not going to dissuade you from using windows (grimdeath's comment about renting windows takes your own words out of context to slight windows) because for most people it is the most sensible choice, particularly if they don't want to depend on peer support to get specific applications or their equivalents to work under a particular linux distribution.
In the future, it may also be good to either stick to more reputable sources (newegg, tigerdirect, actual stores, that sort of thing), or to heavily scrutinize everything you buy from those hosted storefronts.
Go to a Microsoft event. You don't even have to be a developer (it helps); for a lot of them anyone can attend. They hand out copies of vista like candy. Seriously, I went to a local free one a few months ago and everyone who attended got at least one copy of Vista Ultimate.
OK, I had an issue in the past where I was looking to get Office 2000 for my PC. This was about three years ago. I thought being 2005 the software would be cheap, and I paid around $80 for it. I bought it from what I thought was an online software wholesaler at the time called Gulf Software. I paid my money, and in a few days got my package. I knew something was up when it was in a padded envelope and the media was burnt on to CD-R's. I contacted the seller right away and he called me an "Internet Over-reactionist" and blocked my e-mail address.
I contacted his web host and advised them of the transaction and provided proof of the software being fraudulent. They immediately shut down his site and for 3 months I found another five or six that were operating in much the same way with almost an identical e-mail address and contacted the web hosts there as well. All told, I got a total of four sites closed down and contacted my local authorities. At this point, I wanted my money back.
My bank at the time refused to work with me - I used my debit card (I know, don't start) - and they told me that the best they could do was give me a new card so the merchant couldn't charge anything using the information they already had. I agreed, but not without a fair amount of bitching. The police in town contacted me five months after the fact, and by then I was already using Open Office but eventually went back to the pirated software because it was for all intents and purposes working. I didn't have to worry about passing any validation to install and my wife preferred it over Open Office. (Can't blame her)
I will only buy now from a major retailer when it comes to software.
Microsoft does not NEED to make this right.
They are willing to give you a legitimate copy of windows if you give them info about the seller so Microsoft can go after the seller for piracy.
Give Amazon's address. When Microsoft comes calling to Amazon, they will cough up the address to them. You (personally) have no need for the address besides to pass it to MS.
In dealing with the Windows Genuine Advantage program, beware that counterfeit software detection is not always 100%, and the WGA does often pump out false positives...
I would stick with Amazon. I'm sure they have an address on file for their merchant, and I would think they would give it to you. I believe the merchants aren't usually just random people, like with eBay. However, you may just get a PO box as it might be someone doing it out of his home.
If Amazon won't help, use them as the scapegoat and let MS deal with them.
As for all the Ubuntu people, give it up. It's not for everyone. Why should she be out the money and then try a new operating system that is more difficult to use, and I have used it, and I work with computers, mainly Macs and Windows-based PC's.
Also cc the FTC? It won't hurt and I'm sure Amazon will get a kick out of it.
Ultimately though, buyer beware. It's highly unfortunate, but it happens. If Microsoft really has a piracy victim replacement program (which sounds damn nice of them), then I'd put all my eggs in that basket and write it off if they decline.
@greggen:
Seconded. Microsoft has no responsibility to do anything here. They happen to offer a program which, in exchange for USEFUL information on the pirate, you will receive a valid copy. At the point, it seems the buyer can't produce any useful information for MS, so what incentive do they have to give her a free copy? If the seller is shut down, why would MS want to waste time and resources to contact Amazon and try to squeeze out the address?
If what you outlined doesn't work, maybe try a chargeback?
@theantidote: true, but she said that she compaired her packaging and what the disk looked like to examples of pirated versions that Microsoft has found, and her's matched.
this is why I have auto-updates turned OFF, and I apply them manually and after I've had time to see what they may or may not break after they are installed.
That being said, if she gets the right people up top @ MS, they'll probably send her a new legit copy - if not, she needs to consult her local Internet Guru and he can find an alternate solution for her in less than 5 minutes.
The situation is unfortunate, but I think the lesson that most consumers should take away from this post is to be very very careful when buying software (or any other easily pirate-able commodity like CDs, DVDs, video games, etc...) and if you can't examine the physical media only buy from established retailers who can be held accountable if they're selling something pirated.
This is especially true for something like the newer versions of Windows which will now disable your computer if they decide that they're pirated.
Ultimately this situation isn't all that different from someone buying a movie at a flea market only to discover that it's a poor quality pirated video camera transfer. Even if Amazon and Microsoft had handled this instance well, the buyer would still be unable to use their computer for some number of days until the problem is resolved by jumping through all of the appropriate hoops.
@grimdeath9740: "It belongs to you rather then like you said "renting" windows for decent but aging OS."
It's not really fair to take that comment about renting windows out of context; The original post compared getting a year's worth of use for the price they paid to a rental. You are suggesting that nobody who gets a legitimate license for windows "owns" it. That's a point that can easily be argued. The fact of the matter is that if you stick to the terms that you agree to, you can use windows as long as you like. If using linux works for you, that's fine. I'm just tired of reading the comments of linux users bashing windows because it's the fashionable thing to do. You probably close your eyes when you talk, like those smug hybrid drivers in South Park.
@SushamaBabania: That would be a great solution but Im sure she wants all her hardware and software to work...without any extra hassle.
"hope that Microsoft does the right thing and replaces my copy"
This isn't Microsoft's fault or problem. If you bought a counterfeit watch would you expect Rolex to give you a genuine one? Of course not. Go after Amazon - they're ultimately responsible.
And you got ripped off twice - $225 is ridiculous for a copy of Windows.
@Pylon83: You are paying for their time and company. Anything else that happens after that is between two consenting adults.
You may want to contact your credit/debit card company that you purchased with and file a fraud claim, at least they will usually immediately refund you the purchase while they investigate the situation.
@parad0x360: That is such a tired argument. I'm sure you haven't even bothered trying Ubuntu in the past year.
@parad0x360: Didn't she buy a M$ OS? Apparently the "extra hassle" wasn't too much of a deterrent. If she wanted things to be easy, she would've bought a mac! :)
@gafpromise: Because it's the nature of open source people to want to help. One of the big draws of Ubuntu (and Linux in general) is freedom from external control. When we see someone in this situation - crippled because of Microsoft - we want to help them out.
Here's some advice from someone who's had to wrangle money out of Amazon's Marketplace. First, my situation briefly:
I was selling a game that was pretty rare and decently new for 60ish. I made a mistake and listed the condition a step above what I should have as I didn't have the manual for the game. However, the seller filed a complaint that the game "didn't work" - which was inaccurate, since it was practically new and completely tested. I was working out the complaint with them, and then they threw it to Amazon to decide. Since my condition and description didn't matchup, they decided in the buyer's favor. Aside from this being different than the complaint, they were outside the window in which Amazon's Marketplace rules allowed them to make such a decision.
I tried that ecr address. I tried calling a dozen times. Overall I sent at least 20 emails to various people, and those just the ones that got response. My case was "closed" at least five times. None of the emails I could find that were supposedly the CEO's or anyone else higher up had an effect. I even called corporate headquarters a couple times. None of this worked.
What did was filing with the BBB. Amazon still wouldn't admit fault, but they returned my portion of the sale to me.
That's what I recommenced - there's no real way to get support for their Marketplace, and certainly not live support, and it's only gotten worse since my ordeal.
@Canino: It'll come back on the person who already got ripped off - Microsoft is probably going to investigate this
@grimdeath9740: Ubuntu isn't aging then? I mean, I'm a Windows guy, but I know Linux has all sorts of benefits - but the comparison isn't apt at all - you own either OS.
@SushamaBabania: Really? Getting ubuntu will refund her money?
Wow, maybe there is more to those linux crazies than I thought.
MS also flagged me as pirated 2 1/2 years after activation on XP. When I called them and gave them all the info they weren't interested in pursuing my claim or giving me a copy of legit software because the company I bought it from (a neighborhood shop) was no longer open in the location I told them about. Instead they converted into a web only sales operation and they told me that "since there is no one to go after" I had to deal with it myself and they offered to sell me a copy at full retail. I laughed and asked them if they would just prefer me to install linux or go to Google to cicrumvent their restrictions and they said "I can't officially condone that but if it works for you..."
Good luck with your claim.
Since it was an Amazon merchant, shouldn't they have an address? Also, can she file a police report and thus compel Amazon to disclose the address or at least some contact info and/or any other info which could help locate an address through some web searching? It would seem like this problem will start to get noticed more and more in the coming days if this seller sold a lot of pirated copies.