Go To The Black Macy's If You Want Plus-Sized Formal Dresses
Amanda couldn't find a fitting formal dress at Macy's. Macy's said they don't cater to her plus-sized demographic, she should go to another Macy's, which caters to more black women, who tend to be larger.
Amanda writes:
I could not find any gowns larger than a size 12 in the formal/social department. I searched for more than 20 minutes for either a plus/women's formal/social area or a sales clerk and found neither. I waited next to the "customer service" desk for another 15 minutes for someone to come by, and still had no luck. Finally I noticed a Macy's clerk putting some shirts on a rack on the other side of the department, so I went over to her. She was a tall African-American woman named Pam. Our conversation:Me: Hello, could you help me please?
Pam: Yes ma'am. What can I do for you?
Me: I'm going to a formal Christmas party and I need a nice dress, but everything over here seems to stop at a size 12. I wear a 16 or 18, so I guess I need to know where the women's department is.
Pam: It's right here. You are standing in it.
Me: But all that's here are jeans, t-shirts, and sweaters. As I said, I need something dressy for this event. A cocktail dress, or an evening gown, or even a nice business suit.
Pam: I'm sorry, ma'am. Macy's does not cater to your size.
Me: I beg your pardon?
Pam: It's a demographic thing, ma'am. We do not carry plus sizes of formal wear or business suits. We find, demographically speaking, that most of our upscale clientele is smaller, so we have a really large petites department and just the basics for our plus sized customers. It's nothing against you, ma'am. It's just demographics.
Me: Let me make sure I understand, please. Your "upscale" customers who buy party dresses and business suits are all petite? And your plus sized customers are not "upscale"?
Pam: Yes ma'am. The demographics tell us that plus sized women just don't need social wear.
Me: So what you are saying then is that larger women don't have good jobs and don't go to parties.
Pam: That's correct, ma'am. Of course, for those few exceptions like yourself there is one other option.
Me: And that would be?
Pam: You could always go to our store at Highland Mall.
Me: Why?
Pam: Our Highland Mall store has a different demographic, so the departments are different. There are a lot more women of color in the demographic at the Highland Mall store.
Me: What on earth does that have to do with anything?!
Pam: Women of color tend to be larger, so there is a much bigger plus sized department at the Highland Mall location. They'll be happy to cater to your plus-sized needs. Have a great day!She turned to speak to the next customers behind me, a woman with her elderly plus-sized mother. As I walked away, the woman asked Pam where she could find a "nice business suit" for her mother to wear to a wedding. Pam gave her exactly the same response she gave me, that "Macy's does not cater to her size, ma'am."
In less than 2 minutes, Pam managed to condescendingly call me fat, poor, and low class, insult all plus sized women in general, and make sweeping racist generalizations of "women of color" being fat and poor, all while being African-American herself. She couched all of her insults and rudeness in terms of "demographics" and delivered her spiel with a smile and superficially polite niceties ("ma'am" and "have a great day"). I was so shocked, angered, and insulted by Pam that I literally left that store in tears! I knew that if I tried to talk to any of the Macy's managers about my conversation with Pam that I would get so worked up that I'd be either crying or yelling or both, so I made the decision to just leave. I went to Dillard's and purchased a lovely gown for the party.
So here's my dilemma. I want to contact Macy's about Pam's outrageous statements. It has been a week now and it still burns me up. I have loved Macy's for years, but I have no desire to shop with them again. I am very seriously considering shredding my Macy's charge card and sending the slivers to their CEO. But I know from my own many years in retail that the letters that get the most attention are the ones that clearly spell out what the customer wants to make the situation better. I honestly can't think of anything Macy's can do to make the situation better for me. I don't want merchandise vouchers or store credit or even a special discount. I'm not sure I even want an apology, because it would be coming from someone besides Pam. And I don't want an apology from Pam, because I am quite positive that she meant every word and any apology from her would be insincere.
The other problem is that I am just as certain that Pam was not speaking for herself. Somehow, her upper management had to have coached her statements to me and the women behind me in line. Her responses to us were just too "canned", too "rehearsed" to be off-the-cuff remarks. Maybe there really is a "demographic thing" that keeps the Barton Creek store from "catering to my size". Maybe there is a "demographic thing" that suggests that I would be better served at the Highland store because of their fatter, poorer clientele of women of color. Maybe Macy's really believes that racist, size-ist "demographic" blather, that plus sized women, taller women, and women of color are poor and have no need of nicer clothing. I don't know, but it is hurtful, disappointing, and frankly shocking that they would have their clerks spouting out their "demographic" information in such a blatantly condescending manner.
If it isn't too much trouble, could you please let me know your thoughts on what, if anything, I should ask/request/suggest to the "powers that be" when I send them the condensed form of this letter later this week?
It sounds like Pam got told a bunch of demographic and marketing info by her managers, which may itself be true, but the way she presented it was really in poor taste.
It's a tough one. What to ask for? There is no material damage that Macy's owes you. Maybe you could ask the CEO to have Pam given a lesson in tact.
This is a test using rich text formatting and html links. It's the generic "company" ad that should appear on all posts with the Company category if they don't have an ad attached to a specific company.
Post a comment
Comments:
There may have been no material damage, but poor Pam is owed at the very least an apology. There is no need to get into the why of anything, a simple answer of "We are a smaller store and have a smaller plus-sized department" is sufficient.
I've had a hard time finding plus-sized dresses myself. Check out David's Bridal - their customer service blows but you can generally get a cute dress off the rack for the same or less than Macy's would charge, they have a lot of shorter, less-formal options and most of their dresses go up to 26.
This is why you get crappy PR speak out of so many companies. The truth just doesn't sound nice enough for the public. Not only did the clerk tell the customer where to go for what she needed, she even explained why that was the case.
The stores inventory may or may not fit the demographics well. I don't know. I DO know that the choices weren't designed to make this woman feel fat and poor.
(Totally justified) shit storm coming in 3, 2....
Am I the only one who finds this story a bit too hard to swallow?
I definitely agree that Pam was given that info by her managers, but the fact she was so well versed in her statements leads me to believe that she gets asked this kind of question a lot. Obviously a plus-sized demographic for that store does exist, so why don't they cater to them? It makes no sense! I hope someone in the buying office finds out about this. Perhaps Amanda should cc they buyers on her letter.
I'm betting this is Austin. There is a Macy's at our Highland Mall, and that is the mall closest to the east side, where there's a higher number of minorities. That, and I can totally seeing such body-snarking coming out of the smug sales associates at either The Domain or at Barton Creek Mall, whichever was the original Macy's she was visiting. Way to be low-class, Macy's.
@jaya9581: Pam is the Macy's employee. Amanda is the upset customer. So Amanda is owed the apology, right?
@wednesdayam: Ah, see, I was so annoyed that I completely skipped over the part where she said it was the Barton Creek store. I miss that store being a Foley's. Much less annoying back then. And I still wouldn't put that same attitude past The Domain, but they might not be so fast about it since there's a Neiman's on the other side of that mall.
Pam's statements do sound "canned", but they don't sound like something Macy's would coach their salespeople to say, "The demographics tell us that plus sized women just don't need social wear." This sounds more like Pam's personal axe to grind. Not that I'm defending Macy's (I actually despise them). But, if there were so many women asking for plus-sized formal wear that they had to come up with a pat response, you'd think they would instead just stock a few items - or at the least, tell their salespeople to say, "I'm sorry, we don't carry that size. Please try another store".
I would comment on this story, but would probably get banned....
@everfade: Yep, I can give you a perfect example of this is practice. Go to a JC Pennys or Macys in central NJ like Woodbridge Mall
Then go to one in southern NJ like Ocean County Mall
It will become BEYOND obvious the demographics involved as central NJ is very mixed racially and only recently has southern NJ become anything but predominately white.
This is what shopping is like here, in Canada. Most stores carry very few or NO plus sized clothing. I have become so adept at finding "niche market" stores in the US simply because of this. I think you should write a letter, as your all-american sense of entitlement should grant you the freedom to shop where you choose. Also, do it for me so I can shop where I choose when visiting your country for clothing.
Black Macy's? Is that in the same plaza as the Asian Marshall's and Jewish GAP?
Not all Macy's are alike. Some Macy's do in fact cater to different clientele. It's called marketing to your customer. Barton Creek which is in a very wealthy part of Austin caters to the wealthier customer, who probably is going to macy's for Polo, or Lauren or evening wear for social events. Highland Mall is in a middle class aging part of Austin that favors urban brands like baby phat or apple bottoms, there is going to be a customer their that needs larger sizes. In reality Macy's at Barton Creek probably carried the more expensive Women's line, but since they were not bought they were dropped. I imagine Highland mall has a basic petite department to make up for a much larger women's department.
I don't doubt that the employee said those things, or that she heard them from management, but it is quite possible she was not supposed to repeat that information to customers. It's possible she overheard that information being spoken between managers and store purchasing agents, etc.
Does the store really carry more plus size clothing simply because of minority populations in the area? It may be simply because they have historically sold more plus size wear in that store, so therefore they expanded the department. If a department is doing well, they'll expand it. If a department is doing poorly, they'll reduce it or eliminate it. However, I know some stores do go by demographics like that, especially when they are just opening up and trying to get a feel of what they should carry to cater to their neighborhood.
But regardless, the appropriate response would have been "Please try our other store at ____ mall, they carry a larger selection of plus size clothing, which might include some formal wear choices."
I absolutely empathize and suffer from the same "problem" of having a fabulous "orchestra and balcony" (Chorus Line reference). For those in the L.A. area who have the curves to make Lumbard Street jealous, I would suggest the Macy's in the Sherman Oaks Fashion Square, as their Women's department is fantastic and covers 2/3 of the 3rd floor. Also, I would suggest Bloomingdale's in the same mall, as I shopped in there last night for duds for Christmas and New Year's Eve parties. I wear a size 18 in the balcony, and my orchestra is a size 16.
This is not hard to swallow, and if you really feel compelled to find a mall w/"that demographic," (attempting not to gag on that statement) try the Fox Hills Mall.
Yeah, the problem is Pam giving TMI and being tactless. She should have said, "I'm really sorry, but we don't sell formals in that size here. You should try the XYZ mall, I know they have a great selection. And I'll pass along to the higher-ups that there is a demand for plus size formals here."
I absolutely empathize and suffer from the same "problem" of having a fabulous "orchestra and balcony" (Chorus Line reference). For those in the L.A. area who have the curves to make Lumbard Street jealous, I would suggest the Macy's in the Sherman Oaks Fashion Square, as their Women's department is fantastic and covers 2/3 of the 3rd floor. Also, I would suggest Bloomingdale's in the same mall, as I shopped in there last night for duds for Christmas and New Year's Eve parties. I wear a size 18 in the balcony, and my orchestra is a size 16.
This is not hard to swallow, and if you really feel compelled to find a mall w/"that demographic," (attempting not to gag on that statement) try the Fox Hills Mall.
Does Amanda realize that Macy's and Dillard's are now owned by the same parent company?
I find this unfortunate. I personally like to frequent Casual Male - they're definitely more kind to people of my Shrek-like stature. The selection is better, the salespeople look like they shop at the store and they've really done a good job of getting over the whole "All Plus-Sized Men's Shirts Must Have a Dragon or Flames on Them" policy of the early 90s ;)
oh come on...there are like 3 people of color in austin, there's no "black macys"
As a person of a size 16 I've shopped at Macys in Barton Mall many times, this seems like an isolated incident (though I'm not above bitching about terrible customer service). Regardless racism and fatphobia are disgusting, so take it to the corporate level.
But really letter-writer, if you want a nice cocktail dress head to the nordstrom plus department in the same mall for all your curvy needs. Or perhaps the Rack just down the road, I was surprised by the amount of size 14-16 items there.
I have had a similar experience at both Macy's and Lord & Taylor in the Chicagoland area. At least the saleswomen I spoke with were more tactful -- each said that "corporate" had ordered the removal of the business and dressy outfits and that they didn't know why. It was then suggested that I try one of their other stores, in a less affluent area, of course! I guess I shouldn't be surprised; the nearby mall is now full of stores that cater to women who wear size 0-6.
Sounds like "demographic" is a euphemism for "stereotype"
I don't see this as a big deal. She was told exactly why she couldn't find her size. I don't get why people are so sensitive. She was even told where to best find the size she was looking for. People need to toughen up a bit more.
I've found it next to impossible to find good quality, attractive and well fitting plus sized clothing in Toronto. We have Penningtons (oh horrible! They stock muu muus and lots of polyester stretch trousers in colours like dusty rose), or Cotton Ginny (but primarily casual clothing), then there is Addtion-elle (hit and miss - it has a touch of business and muu muu mixed in one two piece outfit). The department stores have nearly nothing in plus sizes.
So I too shop online for decent clothing and they are all from the states.
Why would anyone think the actual explanation would be a better one than simply stating, "There isn't enough consumer demand at this location to justify carrying those sizes"?
We bemoan that companies don't speak to us honestly, and now when we are presented with honest information, we pillory them for that.
Lacking in tact? Yes, perhaps. But it appears to be honest, and I don't see any malice in it...
@Mario Romero: Ah, maybe look in the mirror? If you are that nice to people surrounding you... Then you must have a lot of ''real'' facebook friends?
Personally, I find nothing wrong with Macy's catering to a specific crowed due to demographics, and another Macy's across town catering to another crowd. Similar to why stores near a large Hispanic population would carry more Hispanic products and stores near a large Asian population would carry more Asian products. It's really nothing against the buyers. I (being Asian) would not expected to find everything I'm used to in the LA/SF area compared to in the middle of America.
They've probably done their homework. The amount of large size formal clothing just doesn't get sold that often at the store and as a company that is "trying" to make money, it doesn't make much sense to stock them. Of course, once in awhile, you do have a customer like Amanda, and the only thing they can do is recommend her to try a different store.
However, I will agree that Pam could've definitely said it in much nicer terms to Amanda (i.e. Unfortunately our store doesn't carry sizes over X, you should try the store over at Highlands, or if you prefer, you can order it now and we'll have the store ship it here in the next few days for you to purchase.).
@WNW:
No, it sounds like demographic. Or should Macy's stock all of their stores exactly the same to avoid offending people? This could have been handled differently, but it's got nothing to do with stereotyping.
while the wording could have been more sensitive, what's wrong with catering to the demographic living in a particular area? i shop in china town for asian groceries, i don't go demanding them in brighton beach.
@AT203: I doubt that's honesty... More like stupidity. The reasons rep given, cannot be applied in general, so I say ''bulls@it!''.
(One of my pals works in marketing, it's not as easy defining clothing demographics, as this ''customer service lady'' said.)
I don't see the issue. they are in it to make a profit, and so some stores may carry things that suites their demographic better.
I would much rather know why Store 1 doesn't carry the same stuff as Store 2. Just saying, "Sorry, we don't carry anything like that in your size," is only helpful for that one store. Knowing WHY they don't will help future shopping at all stores.
The big chain grocery stories in my city carry different products depending on neighborhood. Because of this I know not to look for a wide assortment of Mexican cheeses near Chinatown, but I will in the Hispanic section of town.
@thepassenger: Macy's and Dillards are not owned by Federated:
"Owner of Macy's, Bloomingdale's, I. Magnin (defunct), Stern's (defunct), Marshall Field's (defunct), Filene's (defunct) and some others involving the Macy's name. Founded in 1929, operates 465 stores. Federated acquired May Department Stores in 2005 for $11B. The company changed its name to Macy's in 2007."
Are those sizes really "plus"?
I ask because I was dress shopping with my PERFECTLY NORMAL SIZED friend this weekend, who couldn't find a nice dress in her size (I won't share cause it's her business) at macy's.
So this story feels too relevant.
Honestly, why do we have to label the difference in sizes in terms of "bigness" More important (to me at 6 feet tall) is height differences - petites, talls, etc... Another 6 feet tall person may be two sizes bigger or smaller than me but still have a similarly positioned waist/bust/hips.
Sigh... if I were in charge....
@MadameX: I should clarify... we have a "gay Denny's" in Phoenix. I have nothing against gay people and in fact have many gay friends. Just that everyone who has ever gone out to a club here knows where the gay Denny's is...
Amanda needs to walk up to Pam with all of her big Dillard shopping bags and say
"I came in here recently and you refused to help me....... But Mistake" while shaking her bags to show how much buying power she has.